1eyedking Isometric gameplay can't hold a candle to first person real-time

[No Great Name]

I'm still not convinced. Games like Dwarf Fortress and some text-based MUDS are far more interactive than any FP game I've ever played or heard of.

Well, a game is only as interactive as you program it to be. The objectivity comes from the additional detail viewable in first person at all times, especially if in real time, because there is more interactivity potential as a result, and especially so if in combination with the new hands-on approach of VR tech, rather than press button/execute command. Feel free to gang up and call me a retard, and try and put me down with ad hominems, but it seems pretty logical to me. I'd prefer if we could have a sensible discussion instead of all this madness but that doesn't seem to be in the nature of a number of members here, so I'll just stick to promoting my mod, which is designed specifically for old school-types and RPG/Immersive Sim lovers, so give it a shot if you are a DX fan. Farewell.

The thing is that you are talking about a level of interactivity in FP view that does not exist yet (at least I have never seen it done) while most of us are talking about what exists now.

 

[CyberP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLCoDY0sgSA

It has yet to grow, but the potential is there, but FP has always had the most potential I believe. There's other VR tech that allows you to move individual fingers also, don't remember the name.
Perhaps I'm just biased because I am a huge Immersive Sim fan, but I don't think so. I argue this to be fact, but even facts can be refuted. Feel free to try to prove me wrong.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

I'll just stick to promoting my mod

 

[CyberP]

 

[tuluse]

If this is what kind of community RPG Codex is then I regret my decision to join it.

This is the community: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9453

You'll notice the top 5 games are all isometric.

 

[CyberP]

If this is what kind of community RPG Codex is then I regret my decision to join it.

This is the community: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9453

You'll notice the top 5 games are all isometric.

I've read the list before and it's got a lot of great games in it. Just because the community is in favour of isometric RPGs (the most prevalent type of cRPG, or used to be rather) doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to get a level headed discussion out of it's members regarding other types of RPG/perspectives. You'll notice further up the list are the majority of the Immersive Sims also.

Anyway, when I was talking about what this community "is" I was talking about pathetic little faggots trying to get me banned on other forums simply because I am going against the grain and saying what they don't want to hear.

 

[crakkie]

I am a Deus Ex modder (among other games)

A modder, excellent! There are colorful and talented Fallout and Arcanum modders that frequent this site as well. One even has his own subforum. Perhaps you can compare notes.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Anyway, when I was talking about what this community "is" I was talking about pathetic little faggots trying to get me banned on other forums simply because I am going against the grain and saying what they don't want to hear.

Now, now, don't act innocent, Detective Zwanzigsson will let Judge Zwanziger decide, according to what the victim says. By the way, the victim is Frau Johanna Zwanzigsky.

Detective Zwanzigsson: My dearest Frau, what happened to you?

Frau Zwanzigsky: H-he called me retarded, inbred, and a bitch, so I had to defend myself from this utter piece of criminal scum.

Detective Zwanzigsson: What have you done in order to defend yourself?

Frau Zwanzigsky: I-I called his momma and told her that he's trying to rape me. She asked me to tell him that he should never come back home.

Judge Zwanziger frowns.

Detective Zwanzigsson: That's indeed a legal method to defend yourself. What happened next?

Frau Zwanzigsky: He started bitching and attacked me, so I had to beat him with a huge dildo he carried in his pocket.

Judge Zwanziger: I've heard enough. The cocksucker is guilty. And remember, kids: criminals always carry dildos in their pockets! Until next time! Bye-bye!

See? What kind of proof do you really need?

 

[Zewp]

Anyway, when I was talking about what this community "is" I was talking about pathetic little faggots trying to get me banned on other forums simply because I am going against the grain and saying what they don't want to hear.

 

[Sonus]

Wow. Who's pathetic?

Ya know, there's not wanting to hear words, and then there's not wanting to hear shrill vocals at high volume for hours on end. Any wisdom to be had is shot down to the bottom of the priority list. SHADDUUUUUUP!

 

[Angthoron]

This is still a thing? Guys, come on, there's DA: I promo materials to shit all over, get on with the times.

 

[Cool name]

which is designed specifically for old school-types and RPG/Immersive Sim lovers

Perhaps I'm just biased because I am a huge Immersive Sim fan

What the bleepity bleeping bleepy bleep is an Immersive Sim? I go away from gaming and the internet for a few months and I come back to find that bleep everywhere I go, like it's a bloody thingie.

Also, why is a new and shiny PR word or whatevs the bleep it is being used honestly and without sarcasm in mah Codex?

This place has gone to the dogs.

 

[Infinitron]

This place has gone to the dogs.

You mean down the toilet.

"Immersive sim" is not a new term. It was coined by Warren Spector back in 2000 and is basically shorthand for "Looking Glass Studios-style game": http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131523/postmortem_ion_storms_deus_ex.php

 

[Cool name]

"Immersive sim" is not a new term, it was coined by Warren Spector back in 2000 and it's basically shorthand for "Looking Glass Studios-style game": http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131523/postmortem_ion_storms_deus_ex.php

Weird. I never heard of it until, like, a week ago or so. O.O

I think it was some article about the Bioshock games or some such?

Maybe it's just me being an airhead as usual.

Anyways, thank you for the clarification.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Ahaha, good game, Drog.

Why are you all using adhominems while I call you retards? LOLOL

And if copying real-life is superior and more immersive than anything then we can agree that any setting that is fantastic or sci-fi is shit, right?
Or it's only limited to perspective? Sounds like a very limited view you have there. In fact, I'd say you have a very limited intellect and possibly some mental disorder which makes you incapable of understanding something unless it's put through your eyes. Let me ask you this: What do you think about books written in 1st person? Are they better than the other books? Should be, they're more immersive, right?

 

[Declinator]

First person view is more immersive if you are a LARPer. Now i like LARPing just fine, but to argue that it is a superior way to interact with a game its just asinine.

It is superior. It will no longer be an argument when occulus/VR comes into play. You'll be able to pick that shit up, fumble around with mechanisms and drop/break small objects due to poor hand-eye coordination, throw things about with varied force, brofist people, and will actually be doing it yourself rather than "execute command/click on this" of most Iso games. In first person you can see it up close, detailed. In first person you can see the fucking ceiling, or search under a bed with detail. You can see the smallest of objects such as a hidden switch behind a vase that opens up a secret area. It's a far deeper form of interaction than isometric or third person.

Well, a game is only as interactive as you program it to be. The objectivity comes from the additional detail viewable in first person at all times, especially if in real time, because there is more interactivity potential as a result, and especially so if in combination with the new hands-on approach of VR tech, rather than press button/execute command.

First person view does not necessarily change how much you interact with the game world. You can have the character do all those things in other perspectives also. You can order the character to look under the bed, look at the ceiling etc. as long as it is programmed in. This could be a simple "fog of war" type of thing where what is under the bed becomes visible after your character looks there.

The only thing that changes is how those things are presented to the player and the manner in which you interact with the world. I.e. do I just click the "throw x into wall with y force" option in an isometric game or do I actively swing my hand/move the mouse to throw it in your fantasy Oculus game.

Most of the actions you mention are of questionable benefit anyway. None of it really adds depth, just useless little things to do. I'm not interested in "fumbling around with mechanisms."

Aside from interaction, do these things add immersion? Maybe a little but not significantly.

For me immersion seems to be tied to how actively I need to control the game. In isometric games there are often moments where I need to wait for my character to move somewhere which breaks my immersion whereas in first person games I do that moving myself and the immersion remains intact.

On the other hand you have something like Pool of Radiance where movement is instant (tile by tile but doesn't need to be) so immersion remains, again, intact and then you have first person games with scripted sequences and animations which take your control and break the immersion.

So if you want immersion give me control whether it be in first person or otherwise. That said, immersion is not the be-all and end-all of gaming though it is a powerful thing.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Sure, first person gameplay is vastly superior to the isometric one, which is why LOL and Dota 2 are the most popular games at the moment. Oh, wait...

 

[potatojohn]

FP real-time is worse for sim-y games because it's essentially impossible to realistically represent actions that take a long time. So you end up with games where felling trees takes five seconds and processed boards magically appear in your inventory. Then, to compensate, you need to make 1 real time second represent like 10 minutes of game time. It's just really ridiculous.

 

[Osvir]

OP has never played with physical toys as a child I'm assuming, because that was mostly top-down view as I recall it.

 

[FeelTheRads]

OP has never played with physical toys as a child I'm assuming, because that was mostly top-down view as I recall it.

I suppose these were a favorite:

First-person immersive goodness with the most realistic graphics and most interactivity ever!

 

[Osvir]

That is badass! You win FeelTheRads, I concede *bows*

I did mean action figures ofc, so I'll brush shrug off my previous post as a typo~

 

[ghostdog]

Hey Infinitron ,did the OP use the 1eyedking tag, or was it applied by a mod ?

 

[Infinitron]

Hey Infinitron ,did the OP use the 1eyedking tag, or was it applied by a mod ?

Isn't it obvious that this thread was split off from somewhere else? It was applied by a mod, yeah.

Spoiler

The Thiaf thread

 

[ghostdog]

Hey Infinitron ,did the OP use the 1eyedking tag, or was it applied by a mod ?

Isn't it obvious that this thread was split off from somewhere else? It was applied by a mod, yeah.

Who can tell these days.

 

[CyberP]

It is superior. VR will change the way we interact with games, and first person perspective will be the prevelant perspective. It will no longer be an argument when occulus/VR comes into play. You'll be able to pick that shit up, fumble around with mechanisms and drop/break small objects due to poor hand-eye coordination, throw things about with varied force, brofist people, and will actually be doing it yourself, in real time, rather than "execute command/click on this" of most Iso games. In first person you can see it up close, detailed. In first person you can see the fucking ceiling, or search under a bed with detail. You can see the smallest of objects such as a hidden switch behind a vase that opens up a secret area. It allows far deeper form of interaction than isometric or third person.

To argue otherwise is asinine.

And just because this point is being repeatedly explained to you fuck tards when it shouldn't need to be, this doesn't mean I think iso or any other genre/perspective is bad. FP just has greater potential.

Also it seems the lunatics themselves here run the asylum, great...