It's official Turn Based beat RTwP in the CRPG wars.

[Camel]

On the other hand, Pillars of Eternity is a good example of game that could have used a better pre-buff system, like the way vampires can instacast confusion/domination at the start of combat, while you cannot cast the level six Prayer Against Treachery until combat has already started -- for no good reason, I might add. Why the fuck can't a priest pray before combat? Dumb.

You can thank Sawyer.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm not against disabling pre-buffing, but it did have the side effect of turning every battle into a kind of staggered ambush where the spellcasters hang back so they can cast their buffs before the enemies hit their lines. It requires more effort and skill, but it can also get tiresome, which I guess describes a lot of things in Pillars of Eternity.

 

[Camel]

I'm not against disabling pre-buffing, but it did have the side effect of turning every battle into a kind of staggered ambush where the spellcasters hang back so they can cast their buffs before the enemies hit their lines. It requires more effort and skill, but it can also get tiresome (which describes a lot of things in Pillars of Eternity).

I'm against disabling pre-buffing which ruins suspension of disbelief and is extremely gamey. I don't understand why can't Sawyer and other modern devs just give pre-buffs to mobs like the BG2 mages were always a hard nut to crack - they cast a ton of protective buffs with Contingency like Stoneskin, Mirror Image, PfMW, Fireshield and hit like a truck with offensive spells like Timestop, Chaos etc. Some high-level mages can have 8 or more pre-buffs.

 

[General Disarray]

From software games uses a slot system which I feel works well, they use one slot for body buffs and one for weapon, in general I'm sure there are a few exceptions. This could by expanded for exemple one body physical, one body none physical, one mental buff. One problem that could arise is that early spell slots becomes useless. Maybe you could pay for one 5 slot with 5 level 1 slots.

 

[Camel]

DA:O used a system where defensive buffs took a percentage of mana, so it can’t be used for offensive spells.

 

[Blutwurstritter]

The IE pre-buffing problem is actually a consequence-free rest anywhere problem.

100% correct. Any time someone is talking about weaknesses in IE combat or systems design and doesn't mention the fact that resting is completely busted is missing the biggest problem. Resting in IE games allows you to bypass the most important restrictions of the Vancian system; it turns magic in a tactical asset to be used on a per-encounter basis instead of a longer-term resource that has to be managed over a whole scenario (a dungeon delve, a forest, etc.). There is no penalty for stacking a shitload of pre-buffs, so everyone stacks a shitload of pre-buffs.

On the other hand, Pillars of Eternity is a good example of game that could have used a better pre-buff system, like the way vampires can instacast confusion/domination at the start of combat, while you cannot cast the level six Prayer Against Treachery until combat has already started -- for no good reason, I might add. Why the fuck can't a priest pray before combat? Dumb.

Proper resting restrictions would be an improvement in any case. It could solve the problem at low levels but I think it would remain at higher levels in the IE games, when spells last for ages and you have tons of slots.

 

[Gyor]

Another tb RPG is coming out, Witchstone.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Of the DOS era CRPGs I think Wiz7 was the king of trash fights. You fight large groups of HP sponged enemies that take a long time to kill and never leave any good loot. IIRC my party killed more enemies in Wiz 7 than in 6 and 8 combined.

Ha! yes years ago i watched Sinatar playing this game, his reaction to the encounter rate was hilarious, here some timestamps:

3:07:32, 3:11:55, 3:17:42, 3:21:50, 3:24:38, 3:32:32, 3:34:05, 5:51:45

Why he's playing the Fallout Cathedral music at 3:21:50?

 

[Artyoan]

I like RTwP but turn based wins mostly due to clarity. Actions taken within battle are fed to the player in chunks so it is just simply easier to mentally note things one at a time.

RTwP combat often feels flat/simple too, with the actual environment not mattering as much. Is there a crpg with a RTwP system that takes full advantage of verticality and cover systems as well? Been a while since I've played anything with rtwp.

Pre-buffing is fine but should be limited. I like concentration from 5e but I don't like it being one slot for concentration only. Having multiple spells to concentrate on should be possible but introduce heavier penalties beyond one buff/debuff. Have attributes tie in so that the penalties are lesser for characters with a specific attribute (like wisdom) or something.

My 'version' of vancian casting would still have memorization slots but would tie in with a mana system. Non-memorized spells can be used at any time so long as it is in the spellbook. Memorized spells can be used in battle. Each spell has a base cost and using a spell more than once a day increases by the base cost each time. That way having more memorized spells and a scaling mana pool are synergistic.

Now I'm done rambling.