Game News Jagged Alliance 2 - Reloaded Ditches Turn-Based Combat

[The_scorpion]

They will certainly not go out of business. They have smart managers who know hot to establish a firm position for the company by publishing games on the local, as well as on the global market, before starting to buy old licenses that nobody seems to care for. However, their smart managers are hardly notorius gamers. What they aim for is money; what they need for this achievement is a title selling average to very well. This might happen as well, at least with the first game, due to the name that leaves echo in ears. "They regret they won’t be able to please everyone" - they simply want their title to please "most of the everyone".

Even if noone buys Ja2R, they're cross-financing the JA part with their other, titles. That works for them as long as they get their JA titles developed very cheaply.

Most of BC's business model revolves around cheaply developed/ bought stuff from eastern europe. I think to this day, they haven't yet disclosed who the actual developers of Ja2R are.
Personally, i suspect they have a deal (of whatever sorts) with one of the Ja2-clone devs and the smart pause mode stuff comes from there (7.62 and Be5 did find an audience in Russia, so they might be following the Be5/ 7.62 pattern). So i think there was no real C&C for them because RtwP was predefined by the assets they bought up cheaply. They then tried/ hoped to find some RtwP-approval in their forums but failed. At least that would explain the absurd overall situation and rundown of events.

I don't think they're seriously aiming for big money because they have zero chance to make big money with that title. Maybe they rather found a cheap license they can use to get some leverage as a brand and maybe make a fast buck as a bonus.
They got from no-name to notorious villany within a few weeks... talk about publicity

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Real Time is worthless without Squad AI.

 

[lisac2k]

Word

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[mondblut]

Personally, i suspect they have a deal (of whatever sorts) with one of the Ja2-clone devs and the smart pause mode stuff comes from there (7.62 and Be5 did find an audience in Russia, so they might be following the Be5/ 7.62 pattern).

Apeiron is in no way, shape, or form connected to JA2R development. Nor is its SPM system.

 

[The_scorpion]

guess so. But do you know who is?

 

[Pablosdog]

<p>BitComposer Games, developer and publisher of this <a href="http://www.jaggedalliance.com/index.php" target="_blank">Jagged Alliance 2 remake</a>, decided that realtime combat is where it's at, <a href="http://www.4players.de/4players.php/spielinfonews/PC-CDROM/24218/2040698" target="_blank">reports 4players.de</a>.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you're not afraid of the horrors of a google translation: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.4players.de%2F4players.php%2Fspielinfonews%2FPC-CDROM%2F24218%2F2040698" target="_blank">for your pleasure</a>.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Otherwise I have some human-translated parts to offer:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="postbody">The turn-based strategy system will not be implemented. Tactical battles will not be fought in TB mode but in realtime - it will, however, be possible to pause at any time or to configure an automatic pause. (for instance: when a merc runs out of ammo. </span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span class="postbody">Advantages of the Plan & Go-system, when compared to the original TB summarized: <br />-It is more dynamic, because it allows realtime battles <br />-It introduces timing as a gameplay element: Due to transparent and foreseeable enemy movement, it will be possible for the player to sneak dextrously past them or wait for a good opportunity for an attack. <br />-It makes it impossible to stumble into a fight while the mercs are far from the front lines. In JA2 it was very time-consuming to move all mercs to the front line, because you had to split their movement over several rounds. <br />-Battles with many enemies are faster. A turn took a long time in JA2, when many mercs and enemies were involved in a fight. <br />-The new system supports new AI features as suppression and flanking, which only work when the actions take place simultaneously - not in sequence.</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p><em>This newspost, including the translated bits, is a courtesy of Needles.</em></p>
<p> </p>

 

[zeitgeist]

A new batch of questions has been answered by the bitComposer representative. Highlights:

You will only be able to use a single squad at once. And you will not have to manage anything in real time. You can issue every order while the game is paused and then watch how your plan works out in real time.

The “meta-game” and world map section will work pretty much as in the original JA2. After you liberated Drassen it will be up to you how you want to progress. There are missions and completing a mission will help you in completing your final goal but besides killing Deidranna it’s completely up to the player what he feels like doing.

We are aware of 1.13 but since the „Plan & Go“ system works quite different since it is not a turn based system. So we will have to find our own solutions for most of the improvements that 1.13 added to the original JA2.
You should see Jagged Alliance 2 Reloaded rather as a remake in the sense of a movie remake than in the sense of an update to an existing game.
It will have all the mercs, weapons, locations and tell the same story but it will take some liberties here and there to freshen things up.
The sector maps will not be copied directly from the original. The layout of the world map is slightly different which will also result in some changes to the sector maps. At the same time we know the maps of the original very well and will do our best to include the landmarks in the maps we design for Reloaded. Especially for the cities and the NPCs.

http://www.jaggedalliance.com/index.php ... mforum_pi1[action]=list_post&tx_mmforum_pi1[tid]=132&tx_mmforum_pi1[page]=2

 

[SharkClub]

Wow, they really are digging their grave that bit deeper.

 

[zeitgeist]

guess so. But do you know who is?

Well, Jagged Alliance Online is being developed by Cliffhanger Productions (can't find any info about anything they've developed so far, despite supposedly being active since 2005), could it be that they're developing JA2:R too?

Cliffhanger Productions is an independent production company for computer and video games. Formed in 2005 by a group of experienced industry specialists, Cliffhanger Productions offers a range of services to game publishers, game developers, license holders and investors, from industry-specific consulting to game production and marketing. Cliffhanger Productions has offices in Frankfurt, Germany and Vienna, Austria.

 

[GarfunkeL]

The sector maps will not be copied directly from the original. The layout of the world map is slightly different which will also result in some changes to the sector maps.

So no longer 200 sectors which you could fight in. Let's see how many we'll have left. STREAMLINING!

You will only be able to use a single squad at once

STREAMLINING! It's WAY too complex requirement for modern gamers to use 2, 3 or *gasp* 4 teams!

After you liberated Drassen it will be up to you how you want to progress.

I hope that's just a slip, because otherwise it means that the game forces you to start with Drassen. Which by no means was the only viable starting tactic.

 

[SoupNazi]

They probably just didn't know you didn't have to do that first. I mean, I didn't either in my first play.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

You should see Jagged Alliance 2 Reloaded rather as a remake in the sense of a movie remake than in the sense of an update to an existing game.

This is just fucking pathetic.

 

[mondblut]

guess so. But do you know who is?

No clue. Doubtfully anyone from russistan, I would have known.

Since stripped down RTWP is now the only system that might to an extent work in a tactical game yet isn't considered totally last century obsolete in mainstream, it could occur to anyone to employ it. Don't blame Apeiron, blame Bioware

 

[lisac2k]

Well, looking at the list of their previously and currently contracted development studios:

* we may be quite certain From Software is not up to making JAR
* Future Games and Phantometry Interactive are certainly not, they make adventures only
* nor is it Pixelcage, Core Play, Simbin or B-Alive, this is a bite more than they can chew; other than that their profiles simply don't fall into place
* GSC is there for the localised version of the STALKER only, these people know their stuff
* Ukrainian B-Cool Interactive? They seem to be slaves working from a dungeon of some sort; to be in this business and have no proper represantation of yourself is a disgrace at least, not to mention their latest products Scorpion and Scorpion: Disfigured

So, it has to be someone new. If it was any development studio who's up to the task, BC would have jumped out with their PR department long time ago, bursting about 'the well-known developer' working on it, naming them officially.

Now, if you'd have a cheap, inexperienced, small development team working on such a big, pretentious, long time anticipated remake of a wonderful game - what would you do? Announce the name of the team or STFU?

Exactly.

 

[lisac2k]

OK, I don't usually double post, but there may be something interesting around there on the new JA forum.

The user Peal (the guy seems to be the Führer of taktikzone.de ) mentioned this in one of his posts:

There's no way calling that [screenshots showing new 3D environment] ugly, I find it to be quite the opposite when it comes to graphics, and that is the result of using the Engine developed by Coreplay, and not the one of the former JA3D project from Russia.

I have PM'd him/her, waiting for clarification.

Anyway, it seems the Bavarians are working hard on something. I even bothered to sniff through their homepage, just to find that they really are developing a technology very similar to the one we have seen on the recent JAR screenshots. They are supposed to use it in their upcoming title based on a fantasy setting (aka Fantasy Action RPG).

Comparison (hard to say anything, but still):

 

[Jack]

 

[The_scorpion]

OK, I don't usually double post, but there may be something interesting around there on the new JA forum.

The user Peal (the guy seems to be the Führer of taktikzone.de ) mentioned this in one of his posts:

There's no way calling that [screenshots showing new 3D environment] ugly, I find it to be quite the opposite when it comes to graphics, and that is the result of using the Engine developed by Coreplay, and not the one of the former JA3D project from Russia.

I have PM'd him/her, waiting for clarification.

Anyway, it seems the Bavarians are working hard on something. I even bothered to sniff through their homepage, just to find that they really are developing a technology very similar to the one we have seen on the recent JAR screenshots. They are supposed to use it in their upcoming title based on a fantasy setting (aka Fantasy Action RPG).

Comparison (hard to say anything, but still):

i think your comparison of screenshots illustrates another interesting issue. That engine, made for a fantasy rpg of sorts, is it really usable for a game like Ja2R? Most of these engines are designed around optics like the top screenshot. What is crucial for a game like Ja2R however is that things look reasonably well at overview-distance while objects can still be discerned. The big advantage of Isometric in this respect is that, no matter how distant an object is, it always remains visible and identifiable.
If i look at bitcomposer's screenshot, the entire picture is covered by a small building and already there, smaller objects like that book shelf or whatever it is in the small room are not very detailed anymore. Now if i want to look at a larger building, a compound or various houses and objects at a time, how much of it can i still see and discern? And what about enemies at long distances (think Sniper usage here). How well is that going to work, i wonder. Hired guns for example suffered from players not being able to really discern their line of fire, so they ended up firing into the ground or somesuch. And in Silent storm (there is an LP going on in the codex playground) they seem to have resorted to very small overall areas and short combat ranges to partly solve the problem, but i don't find it convincing.

 

[lisac2k]

Your points seem valid, but you missed the point of my post.

I was about to uncover who is going to develop the title, not to judge the engine. This would support my theory about BC remaining silent when asked about the development studio.

So, it has to be someone new. If it was any development studio who's up to the task, BC would have jumped out with their PR department long time ago, bursting about 'the well-known developer' working on it, naming them officially.

Now, if you'd have a cheap, inexperienced, small development team working on such a big, pretentious, long time anticipated remake of a wonderful game - what would you do? Announce the name of the team or STFU?

Although I have eliminated Coreplay as developers, it seems I was wrong. According to this link, the game will be made on the Coreplay engine, additionally amplified by The Beast lightmapping technology, used in God of War 3 and Mirrors Edge. However, it is self-evident that the second part of my conclusion was inevitably true - they really have contracted a small, inexperienced, cheap (this last attribute is quite possible, but not certain) developer. In this business, that means high risk of success, no matter what your genre or target audience is. Their own hole, what do I care..?

... Aside from screwing up my favourite game, one of the last bastions of hope.

 

[The_scorpion]

i did read your observations about the engine used hinting at possible developers. I just kinda went on to compare the screenshots you linked. My bad, didn't want to change the topic.

I know too little about the industry, but isn't it rather unusual not to announce the developer of a title?

 

[lisac2k]

Depends. If there's some gain in revailing it (or not), then it's revealed (or not). Everything else would mean disgrace of the PR/marketing-department. Since BC managed to piss off so many people in such a short timeframe (and, at the same time, to show its complete incompetence regarding PR/marketing matters), it would certainly be better for them to keep most of the upcoming development process secret.

Hell, I've seen non-profitable/indie games development teams handling tough situations better than BC.

 

[zeitgeist]

Some new answers from bitComposer:

Q1: If you keep the original Mercenary, what would you do with the voices? I mean a full re-voicing would change the "original" feeling, it's kind of an hard decision for you isn't it?

That’s a really good question. As we have the original English soundfiles available we think about the possibility to use them, where it’s possible. The other languages need to be rerecorded. But we don’t think that this is a problem if it’s done well. Our aim is to catch the tonality & feeling of the original.

Q2: What is you opinion at the current state of the game, will JA2R be modifiable so that the community could implement an "Turn Based Mod"?

In the release time frame there are no tools for modifications planned. Please keep in mind that it took years until the source code of JA2 has been released. We won’t wait that long, but first of all it’s important for us to finalize the game and after that we can think about possible tools for the modding scene.

 

[The_scorpion]

Q1: If you keep the original Mercenary, what would you do with the voices? I mean a full re-voicing would change the "original" feeling, it's kind of an hard decision for you isn't it?

That’s a really good question. As we have the original English soundfiles available we think about the possibility to use them, where it’s possible. The other languages need to be rerecorded. But we don’t think that this is a problem if it’s done well. Our aim is to catch the tonality & feeling of the original.

Reminds me of german-voiced unfinished business.

 

[lisac2k]

Nice to hear they'll most probably keep the merc voices from the original game, but it looks like a platinum spring in a rusty, shit-covered, broken clockwork.

I wonder what kind of optimist one must be in order to hope for any modding support at all? Would check it out myself, but can't be bothered visiting that place anymore. BC mostly confirmed all our assumptions about what kind of publisher they are, so... Move along, nothing to see here.

Allow me to quote the comrade from another thread, so we can conclude the farce altogether:

Having said this, I have no hopes for this project whatsoever, with or without their intended "streamlining". Even if they had planned a 1:1 remake, only with updated graphics, chances would still be hopelessly high for such a godawful shovelware developer to fuck it up.

 

[Havoc]

Q2: What is you opinion at the current state of the game, will JA2R be modifiable so that the community could implement an "Turn Based Mod"?

In the release time frame there are no tools for modifications planned. Please keep in mind that it took years until the source code of JA2 has been released. We won’t wait that long, but first of all it’s important for us to finalize the game and after that we can think about possible tools for the modding scene.

I know the name of the Turn Based Mod...
"Turn-Based Motherfucker, Do You Speak It?!"

 

[zeitgeist]

Hi all,

this is not the final interface. What you have seen on the screenshots was only created for the prototype and doesn't represent the final design.

Cheers

In other news, the forum has been redesigned so now you can log in with your Facebook account. I guess they did it mainly because of JA Online. Seeing how deserted that board is now, after the initial "don't make it realtime" rush, is pretty sad.