Jagged Alliance Jagged Alliance 2, Temple of Elemental Evil & Silent Storm Retrospectives

[Lilura]

The late-90s/early 2000s are missed. Best era for PC games. Stuff like Thief, Deus Ex, Half-Life, System Shock 2...

Was Jagged Alliance 2 rated in the Best Codex RPGs? Or was it left out?

EDIT - Coincidentally, the thread was just bumped. It's rated 14th.

RPGs the Codex rates above JA2:

1. PS:T (one of the most overrated RPGs)
2. Fallout
3. BG2 (one of the most overrated RPGs)
4. Arcanum
5. Bloodlines (edgy popamole)
6. Fallout 2
7. New Vegas (Bethesda-based popamole)
8. Deus Ex (popamole)
9. Gothic 2 (over-cooked popamole; Gothic is far superior)
10. Morrowind (massively overrated hiking-sim popamole)
11. Age of Decadence
12. Dark Souls (popamole)
13. Poncefinder: Cuckmaker (current gen; a cheap knock-off of BG that piggy-backs on nostalgia; doesn't even have a legacy; isn't even in its final state, and yet the 'tards rated it above Jagged Alliance 2?)

Five popamoles in the top 10. Bethesda engines twice in the top 10 (one of them the Oblivion with Guns engine). This is proof that only approved posters should be able to vote.

 

[Yosharian]

I have since revised commentary of my Jagged Alliance 2 retrospective (posted 9 more write-ups).

Before I leave the 'Dex again, I would like everyone to acknowledge that Jagged Alliance 2 is one of the greatest RPGs ever. And if this thread gets moved to General Gaming again, I'll leave as well.

Thank you for reading, and have a lovely day.

 

[Lilura]

Nothing wrong with bringing attention to Jagged Alliance 2. My retrospective has got a lot of new people playing the game. Fuck off and make yourself useful.

 

[Yosharian]

Nothing wrong with bringing attention to Jagged Alliance 2. My retrospective has got a lot of new people playing the game. Fuck off and make yourself useful.

 

[Rules Lawyer]

JA2 was great and all, but Torment is only overrated to people who utterly ignore the ROLE part of playing. No game, not even fallout, has got that part better, or had a more memorable plot or NPCs.

 

[Lilura]

So what you're saying is, PS:T deserves to be rated above Fallout, Fallout 2 and Arcanum?

PS:T doesn't even deserve to be in the top 10.

This is what a proper agenda-based top 10 looks like:

1. Jagged Alliance 2
2. Fallout
3. Arcanum
4. Fallout 2
5. Temple of Elemental Evil
6. Icewind Dale
7. Icewind Dale 2
8. Baldur's Gate
9. Mask of the Betrayer
10. Wizardry 8

 

[Modron]

I could forgive Icewind Dale 1 as a matter of different tastes but just no Icewind Dale 2 does not belong on any 10 list.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

You may be too harsh with Bloodlines. I only played it once, and recently, but it really impressed me. I didn't think adapting WoD to CRPG could be done "right", as in "no overblown vampire/goth/emo lukewarm shit, really fitting characters and good use of WoD vampire disciplines". I was wrong. I may rate it lower once I've replayed it a couple of times but I doubt it.

 

[Lilura]

I could forgive Icewind Dale 1 as a matter of different tastes but just no Icewind Dale 2 does not belong on any 10 list.

Icewind Dale 2 stretched the Infinity Engine to its limits in terms of ruleset implementation (3.x and concomitant builds), UI, dungeon design, encounter design and quest structure. Most RPGs get weak at the end whereas IWD2 is strongest at the end (non-linear questing in Severed Hand).

Vampire Bloodlines is the third best popamole after Deus Ex and System Shock 2. It's a good RPG; I rate it in the top 15 or so due to its clan-based reactivity. It beats Gothic, Gothic 2 and Morrowind easily.

Still, Bloodlines is an edgy hipster RPG. It's the worst of Troika's trio.

 

[Surf Solar]

I.... Actually agree with most. JA2 is by far the game I have started and finished the most in my life. Easily 40 times. It just never gets old.

 

[Lilura]

Now try playing PS:T more than once. I've done 5 playthroughs and 10 partials over the years.

The torrential dialogue and almost non-existent combat encounter design ruins everything.

 

[octavius]

Now try playing PS:T more than once. I've done 5 playthroughs and 10 partials over the years.

The torrential dialogue and almost non-existent combat encounter design ruins everything.

And yet you've completed it 5 times?

 

[Lilura]

And yet you've ccompleted it 5 times?

5 times isn't many compared to how many times I've played other RPGs. I was experimenting with different builds, incarnations and factions; a couple of solos, too. Doesn't mean I read all the words. You can skip dialogue pretty quickly in PS:T.

 

[Lord_Potato]

Did you play anything from the post renaissance era with at least 10% of attention given to those titles?

 

[Lilura]

I have. But I found them to be a waste of my time.

I covered Underrail, Numenera and Tyranny. I won't make the mistake of covering current gen garbage again. Except BG3 because it suits my agenda.

 

[Comte]

So what you're saying is, PS:T deserves to be rated above Fallout, Fallout 2 and Arcanum?

PS:T doesn't even deserve to be in the top 10.

This is what a proper agenda-based top 10 looks like:

1. Jagged Alliance 2
2. Fallout
3. Arcanum
4. Fallout 2
5. Temple of Elemental Evil
6. Icewind Dale
7. Icewind Dale 2
8. Baldur's Gate
9. Mask of the Betrayer
10. Wizardry 8

Lilura are you going to do a write up on Arcanum?

 

[Lilura]

Lilura are you going to do a write up on Arcanum?

Yes, but I won't cover its story because I'm not a storyfag. I'll focus on its reactivity. I'd like to cover Age of Decadence, too. Probably the only "current gen" RPG worth a damn.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Lilura are you going to do a write up on Arcanum?

Yes, but I won't cover its story because I'm not a storyfag. I'll focus on its reactivity. I'd like to cover Age of Decadence, too. Probably the only "current gen" RPG worth a damn.

Dungeon Rats might be more to your liking.

 

[Lilura]

I think I'll just keep playing JA2 for the rest of my gaming life, but thanks! After this, I'll play on Expert and then I'll start commentating on mods.

Playing this game makes me so happy.

 

[octavius]

Lilura, what do you think of (Open)Xcom, and how it compares to JA2?

 

[Lilura]

I'm not an authority on XCOM (though I could be). The only modded XCOM I played was XCOMUtil.

XCOM is just too old. As I've said before, Fallout is about as early as I'll go these days.

 

[Chippy]

Now try playing PS:T more than once. I've done 5 playthroughs and 10 partials over the years.

The torrential dialogue and almost non-existent combat encounter design ruins everything.

Oooof. If I told you I had always intended to play JA2, but never got around to it - but am currently playing my games in chronological order, and will by the end of the year - I'm sure you will look askance at me, but no more so than that comment you just made also deserves. I'll just be really polite about it though.

 

[Lilura]

playing my games in chronological order

That's silly because there is too much garbage to sift through. For example, of the 255 RPGs listed in my Renaissance write-up ('96-2010), only a handful are worth a damn.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

Icewind Dale 2 stretched the Infinity Engine to its limits in terms of ruleset implementation

Wow, what an achievement.

 

[octavius]

playing my games in chronological order

That's silly because there is too much garbage to sift through.

Only if you intend to play all of them.
You need to be a real CRPG Addict for that.