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Just Finished Chrono Trigger

mogwaimon

Magister
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Messages
1,079
Hell in FF1 you can make a team of fighters and just press A to win.

My 9 or 10 year old self can vouch for this because he made it all the way to Tiamat's temple with a team of four fighters all equipped with cat's claws on the original NES version back in the day. Never did beat the whole game though, kek
 

Gastrick

Cipher
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
1,515
There are mobs that are only really vuln to magic, so saying it's just a press A to win is retardedly dishonest. Try fighting Magus without using any magic for instance. And really you could say that about any of those early JRPGs. Just attack to win. Hell in FF1 you can make a team of fighters and just press A to win. Or say the early DQ games.

CT got rid of the random battle formula that was everywhere in JRPGs. You could see your enemies on screen, you could run past most fights and you could like you said use certain techs depending on enemy placement and movement. So much could have been done with a system like that in future JRPGs but they just stuck to the heroes and enemies are in a line and take turns attacking formula in future games and consoles.
The other games by Chrono Trigger's creator, Live-a-Live and Parasyte Eve, both did those things much better. Better to where you'd wonder how these are made by the same person.
In Live-a-Live's case, did it first. In Chrono Trigger you can't even more your character and the combat is piss easy where it might as well be press a to win. The expression "press a to win" also refers to simplistic and easy games, even if you do occasionally use magic. It doesn't apply even if a game has cheese builds with overly-high armor and weapon costs. The story is very dull in Chrono Trigger where it is difficult to get into it.
 

Grimlorn

Arcane
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
10,058
There are mobs that are only really vuln to magic, so saying it's just a press A to win is retardedly dishonest. Try fighting Magus without using any magic for instance. And really you could say that about any of those early JRPGs. Just attack to win. Hell in FF1 you can make a team of fighters and just press A to win. Or say the early DQ games.

CT got rid of the random battle formula that was everywhere in JRPGs. You could see your enemies on screen, you could run past most fights and you could like you said use certain techs depending on enemy placement and movement. So much could have been done with a system like that in future JRPGs but they just stuck to the heroes and enemies are in a line and take turns attacking formula in future games and consoles.
The other games by Chrono Trigger's creator, Live-a-Live and Parasyte Eve, both did those things much better. Better to where you'd wonder how these are made by the same person.
In Live-a-Live's case, did it first. In Chrono Trigger you can't even more your character and the combat is piss easy where it might as well be press a to win. The expression "press a to win" also refers to simplistic and easy games, even if you do occasionally use magic. It doesn't apply even if a game has cheese builds with overly-high armor and weapon costs. The story is very dull in Chrono Trigger where it is difficult to get into it.
Again you're wrong. Most JRPGs from that era are like that then. FF6 especially. Makes no sense to denigrate CT for being "too easy" while praising something like FF6 with it's equally easy combat. And lol at the story in CT being dull and difficult to get into. You idiots keep talking out of your asses. It's one thing to say a certain game didn't resonate with you. I wouldn't care about that. It gets annoying when you make all these false claims about what's in the game or comparisons about the games that are objectively untrue. It reminds me of those feminists that make up BS about games to get offended by and claim they're misogynistic. Except here you're just making up BS to justify why you didn't enjoy the game and then claim it's shit because of it.
 

Rean

Head Codexian Weeb
Patron
Joined
Nov 14, 2020
Messages
1,265
Strap Yourselves In
There are mobs that are only really vuln to magic, so saying it's just a press A to win is retardedly dishonest. Try fighting Magus without using any magic for instance. And really you could say that about any of those early JRPGs. Just attack to win. Hell in FF1 you can make a team of fighters and just press A to win. Or say the early DQ games.

CT got rid of the random battle formula that was everywhere in JRPGs. You could see your enemies on screen, you could run past most fights and you could like you said use certain techs depending on enemy placement and movement. So much could have been done with a system like that in future JRPGs but they just stuck to the heroes and enemies are in a line and take turns attacking formula in future games and consoles.
The other games by Chrono Trigger's creator, Live-a-Live and Parasyte Eve, both did those things much better. Better to where you'd wonder how these are made by the same person.
In Live-a-Live's case, did it first. In Chrono Trigger you can't even more your character and the combat is piss easy where it might as well be press a to win. The expression "press a to win" also refers to simplistic and easy games, even if you do occasionally use magic. It doesn't apply even if a game has cheese builds with overly-high armor and weapon costs. The story is very dull in Chrono Trigger where it is difficult to get into it.
Again you're wrong. Most JRPGs from that era are like that then. FF6 especially. Makes no sense to denigrate CT for being "too easy" while praising something like FF6 with it's equally easy combat. And lol at the story in CT being dull and difficult to get into. You idiots keep talking out of your asses. It's one thing to say a certain game didn't resonate with you. I wouldn't care about that. It gets annoying when you make all these false claims about what's in the game or comparisons about the games that are objectively untrue. It reminds me of those feminists that make up BS about games to get offended by and claim they're misogynistic. Except here you're just making up BS to justify why you didn't enjoy the game and then claim it's shit because of it.

Take a deep breath. Comparing codexers to feminists is low!!!
 

Gastrick

Cipher
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
1,515
I didn't praise FF6, and don't see how other games being flawed as well is an excuse. Whether a game is good should be decided by how much you like the playing experience and objective points can be raised to show why this is the case. Explaining the playing experience and why it is the important, I always use my personal impressions to decide whether a game is good or bad and never popular opinion. Like the expression, "believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see", I can at least half-believe what I see. When a conflict arises between reality experienced first hand and 3rd hand descriptions, it is better to trust experience for what is the truth.

Only a retard would think that comparing the gameplay to games by the same person with similar combat is unfair. It's worse since you can't move your characters around in Chrono Trigger. Also with it's combat, waiting for enemies to form a shape matching a technique's attack shape is barebones. There's also annoying ATB combat where you can't wait to think. Even if there were deep mechanics, you'd never use them since the game is easy. I see a lot of points criticizing Chrono Trigger in this thread that are that are solid and un-countered.

Looking at your insults throughout the thread like comparing me to a feminist out of nowhere, it seems that you are butthurt over people attacking your precious childhood favorites.
 
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Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
4,792
Again you're wrong. Most JRPGs from that era are like that then. FF6 especially. Makes no sense to denigrate CT for being "too easy" while praising something like FF6 with it's equally easy combat.

FF6 doesn't have equally easy combat. It starts off that way but gets progressively more complex, even if never getting into hardcore territory.

Fake and gay news. FF6 while far from the best RPG or JRPG ever is leagues above CT on the gameplay front. Better combat, better dungeon design, better overworld design, better character customisation, better quest design, better everything.

CT starts with the same complexity that FF6 does, with the exception that it does not get increasingly more complex AT ALL, it stays at the braindead basic intro complexity. That's the problem.
Bringing up FF1 for comparison is worthless. FF was shit until FF5 came along, then from there it was massive incline.
 

Grimlorn

Arcane
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
10,058
Take a deep breath. Comparing codexers to feminists is low!!!
Had to be done.

Again you're wrong. Most JRPGs from that era are like that then. FF6 especially. Makes no sense to denigrate CT for being "too easy" while praising something like FF6 with it's equally easy combat.

FF6 doesn't have equally easy combat. It starts off that way but gets progressively more complex, even if never getting into hardcore territory.

Fake and gay news. FF6 while far from the best RPG or JRPG ever is leagues above CT on the gameplay front. Better combat, better dungeon design, better overworld design, better character customisation, better quest design, better everything.

CT starts with the same complexity that FF6 does, with the exception that it does not get increasingly more complex AT ALL, it stays at the braindead basic intro complexity. That's the problem.
Bringing up FF1 for comparison is worthless. FF was shit until FF5 came along, then from there it was massive incline.
You can make it to the end of game just auto attacking everything, using blitzs, sword techs, tools. All easy physical damage and no grinding either. There is no complexity to FF6 in combat. You just either use a physical attack or a magic attack. Same with CT. FF6 was bigger because it had random battles. It had a small grid system you could move left, right, up and down in. FF6 had battles that went to a 2D background where everyone was in a line and a static 2D model that never moved. Chrono Trigger was simply smaller because you had enemies on the map that could move around and could be attacked in different ways and positions. It had actual encounter design vs the same old enemies in a line system the FF games had. You had tech combinations that did more damage when the heroes worked together and depending on the vuln of the mobs or position of the mobs on what could hit. It had greater animations when it came to magic and attacking. Both games pushed the SNES cartridge's capacity to its limits. FF6 dungeons weren't really impressive either but due to the grid system they could make things seem larger than they were. The final dungeon was good that's it. But dungeons aren't everything. Characters, combat, fun and stories matter too.
 

Grimlorn

Arcane
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
10,058
I didn't praise FF6, and don't see how other games being flawed as well is an excuse. Whether a game is good should be decided by how in your experience you like it or not; and objective points can be raised to show why this is the case. I have never decided that a game was good based on mass opinion but always on my own impressions. Like the expression, "believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see", at least with what I see I can half-believe it. When reality experienced first hand and 3rd hand descriptions of it come into conflict it is better to fall on experience for what is the truth. Only a retard would think that comparing the gameplay to games by the same person with similar combat is unfair. It's worse since you can't move your characters around and with the combat in Chrono Trigger, in practice the system of waiting for enemies to match the shape of a technique is barebones. There's also annoying ATB combat where you can't wait to think. You aren't pressured to get any good at match-the-shape, given how the game is easy. I see a lot of points made against Chrono Trigger in this thread that are based on objective game qualities, and have no objections to them. Looking at your insults throughout the thread like comparing me to a feminist out of nowhere, it seems that you are butthurt over people attacking your precious childhood favorites.
I don't think you have a firm grasp on the English language, as I can't really understand this post, but the whole point I bring up what I do is because people are outright stating untrue or misleading things about these games including yourself and like in the DD thread with Porky I have to state those things are untrue, otherwise people might mistake you for being right and then never try the games in question or go in hating it because they are misled by contrarians. Like complaining that CT is too easy when a lot of RPGs that are beloved not just JRPGs are piss easy. So what, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, so make a better argument.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
9,156
Location
Nottingham
I didn't praise FF6, and don't see how other games being flawed as well is an excuse. Whether a game is good should be decided by how in your experience you like it or not; and objective points can be raised to show why this is the case. I have never decided that a game was good based on mass opinion but always on my own impressions. Like the expression, "believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see", at least with what I see I can half-believe it. When reality experienced first hand and 3rd hand descriptions of it come into conflict it is better to fall on experience for what is the truth. Only a retard would think that comparing the gameplay to games by the same person with similar combat is unfair. It's worse since you can't move your characters around and with the combat in Chrono Trigger, in practice the system of waiting for enemies to match the shape of a technique is barebones. There's also annoying ATB combat where you can't wait to think. You aren't pressured to get any good at match-the-shape, given how the game is easy. I see a lot of points made against Chrono Trigger in this thread that are based on objective game qualities, and have no objections to them. Looking at your insults throughout the thread like comparing me to a feminist out of nowhere, it seems that you are butthurt over people attacking your precious childhood favorites.
I don't think you have a firm grasp on the English language, as I can't really understand this post, but the whole point I bring up what I do is because people are outright stating untrue or misleading things about these games including yourself and like in the DD thread with Porky I have to state those things are untrue, otherwise people might mistake you for being right and then never try the games in question or go in hating it because they are misled by contrarians. Like complaining that CT is too easy when a lot of RPGs that are beloved not just JRPGs are piss easy. So what, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, so make a better argument.

The problem with CT isn't just it's easyness though, it's the fact that from the 2nd act onwards it pads the game out with said easy combat.

Half the battles are the same ones as you have to fight the same bad guys every time around the gates, and they're "press A to win". It ultimately leads to a really poorly paced 2nd act, and makes the game drag.

I'm just playing through Phantasy Star 4 at the mo, and - unless you grind - most battles feel significant, and offer a sense of threat. They're not hard, but you can't switch off and just spam attack on the first enemy that it automatically selects either.

And, just as a side note, it's way funnier and way more emotional too. Baffles me how many folk think CT is the best RPG of the era. The hype really has suckered people in.
 

orcinator

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
1,393
Location
Republic of Kongou
There are mobs that are only really vuln to magic, so saying it's just a press A to win is retardedly dishonest.
Mash A to win is faster to type than "Mash A against trash mobs, spam most efficient attack heal sometimes against mid tier enemies, spam strongest attack (sometimes the same as the most efficient attack), heal occasionally against bosses" which is what most bad JRPG's combat boils down to.
Also lmao at implying the positioning matters in CT when most of the attacks target one or all enemies.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
9,156
Location
Nottingham
all jrpgs are easy

0pk5mt7.jpg
 

Mangoose

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
22,652
Location
I'm a Banana
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
all jrpgs are easy
Yeah, the big majority of them just depend on tedious grinding. Not all of them.

But the prevalent Final Fantasy "style"... Came from the original Wizardry. Except just the combat part. No Wizardry-esque dungeon crawl, no party creation. Apparently Dragon Quest was influenced by the same Wizardry 1 but... tbh I don't remember playing one (IIRC I only played Lufia and Breath of Fire on the SNES emu, as well as Seiken Densetsu 3 aka the really really late port of "Trials of Mana."

Wait what. Trials of Mana is on Windows? Oh fuck.

Edit: Oh fuck, it's an actual remake of graphics so it's new 3D style. Haven't played yet and I've only glimpsed a screenshot but I'm already trepidatious.

Edit 2: Steam reviews are surprisingly positive. I mean, these are mostly people who've played the SNES version that never came to the US (so fan-translated). So, a rather niche, probably hard to please, group. But those people who've played it: "This remake irons out a majority of the flaws." I mean this is grognard JRPG.

Edit 3: Oooo they provided a demo. Man. Remember those?
 
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Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
9,156
Location
Nottingham
The best JRPGs achieve a nice middle ground where you're challenged and have to genuinely manage the party, but don't have to grind.

There are plenty of them out there.
 

mogwaimon

Magister
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Messages
1,079
all jrpgs are easy
Yeah, the big majority of them just depend on tedious grinding. Not all of them.

But the prevalent Final Fantasy "style"... Came from the original Wizardry. Except just the combat part. No Wizardry-esque dungeon crawl, no party creation. Apparently Dragon Quest was influenced by the same Wizardry 1 but... tbh I don't remember playing one (IIRC I only played Lufia and Breath of Fire on the SNES emu, as well as Seiken Densetsu 3 aka the really really late port of "Trials of Mana."

Wait what. Trials of Mana is on Windows? Oh fuck.

Edit: Oh fuck, it's an actual remake of graphics so it's new 3D style. Haven't played yet and I've only glimpsed a screenshot but I'm already trepidatious.

Edit 2: Steam reviews are surprisingly positive. I mean, these are mostly people who've played the SNES version that never came to the US (so fan-translated). So, a rather niche, probably hard to please, group. But those people who've played it: "This remake irons out a majority of the flaws." I mean this is grognard JRPG.

Edit 3: Oooo they provided a demo. Man. Remember those?

yea they did a full 3D remake a year or two ago and then they also brought the original to Steam in a collection with Secret of Mana.
 

Mangoose

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
22,652
Location
I'm a Banana
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
all jrpgs are easy
Yeah, the big majority of them just depend on tedious grinding. Not all of them.

But the prevalent Final Fantasy "style"... Came from the original Wizardry. Except just the combat part. No Wizardry-esque dungeon crawl, no party creation. Apparently Dragon Quest was influenced by the same Wizardry 1 but... tbh I don't remember playing one (IIRC I only played Lufia and Breath of Fire on the SNES emu, as well as Seiken Densetsu 3 aka the really really late port of "Trials of Mana."

Wait what. Trials of Mana is on Windows? Oh fuck.

Edit: Oh fuck, it's an actual remake of graphics so it's new 3D style. Haven't played yet and I've only glimpsed a screenshot but I'm already trepidatious.

Edit 2: Steam reviews are surprisingly positive. I mean, these are mostly people who've played the SNES version that never came to the US (so fan-translated). So, a rather niche, probably hard to please, group. But those people who've played it: "This remake irons out a majority of the flaws." I mean this is grognard JRPG.

Edit 3: Oooo they provided a demo. Man. Remember those?

yea they did a full 3D remake a year or two ago and then they also brought the original to Steam in a collection with Secret of Mana.
Honestly one of my favorite SNES games. There's even C&C lol.
 

Gastrick

Cipher
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
1,515
Baffles me how many folk think CT is the best RPG of the era. The hype really has suckered people in.
Yeah, Chrono Trigger really is hyped to death. A family member played Chrono Trigger and FF7 as their first JRPGs and decided that the genre sucked and wasn't meant for them. For some reason they decided to check out Persona 5 anyway and they ended loving it and playing it all the way through. Even though I enjoyed FF7, hyping up mediocre games like Chrono Trigger only does a disservice to newcomers. The hype train is big enough that it made me retry Chrono Trigger 6 times to see whether my eyes were playing tricks on me, or I was just in a bad mood that day. The sooner it slows down the better.
 
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Gastrick

Cipher
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
1,515
Not to mention every ATLUS
not e v e r y tbh. smt is one thing, persona is another. dunno about persona 1, but persona 2 and 2.5 weren't harder than standard fare and the series didn't get harder over time.
Persona 2: Innocent Sin is known as the easiest game in the franchise, especially the PSP port, so the series has gotten harder over time. With Persona 3, any game with instant kill spells that can hit your MC and require you to redo the last half hour qualifies as not easy. There's also that the later moon bosses have a shit ton of health and take around an hour to beat. For the bosses inside the dungeon, grinding a couple levels higher won't help against them, you need to create or find the right demons and use different party members. This is a game where you cannot control your party members so they do stupid shit that is outside of your control. Finally, the 80+ hour game time alone makes the game difficult to finish.
 

Gastrick

Cipher
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
1,515

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
4,792
The hype train is big enough that it made me retry Chrono Trigger 6 times to see whether my eyes were playing tricks on me

Jeeesus christ.

That's dedication to being a sheep.
sheep.png

And some kind of perception/intelligence check failure (critical thinking, analytics).

However, what matters in the end is your brain is able to eventually determine the objective reality, so here you go my friend:
rating_prestigious.png


Benefit of the doubt and I'll just assume at the time you were young and had not played many games and therefore didn't have much to compare it to.
 
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