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Just Finished Chrono Trigger

Gastrick

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Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
1,515
The hype train is big enough that it made me retry Chrono Trigger 6 times to see whether my eyes were playing tricks on me

Jeeesus christ.

That's dedication to being a sheep.
sheep.png

And some kind of perception/intelligence check failure (critical thinking, analytics).

However, what matters in the end is your brain is able to eventually determine the objective reality, so here you go my friend:
rating_prestigious.png


Benefit of the doubt and I'll just assume at the time you were young and had not played many games and therefore didn't have much to compare it to.
But it sounds so fun and is supposed to be the best Ar-Pee-Gee evar!

I remind myself now that Chrono Trigger is shit and that there are other games to be hyped for that I would like much better.
 
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Grimlorn

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Messages
10,058
There are mobs that are only really vuln to magic, so saying it's just a press A to win is retardedly dishonest.
Mash A to win is faster to type than "Mash A against trash mobs, spam most efficient attack heal sometimes against mid tier enemies, spam strongest attack (sometimes the same as the most efficient attack), heal occasionally against bosses" which is what most bad JRPG's combat boils down to.
Also lmao at implying the positioning matters in CT when most of the attacks target one or all enemies.
There's at least 1 or 2 dungeons where the enemies are only vuln to magic and they are trash mobs, so yes it's dishonest to pretend you can only physically attack everything to success. Certain techs and dual techs only have a certain radius which depends on the position of the enemies on what they hit and in certain cases you do more damage with dual or triple techs if I recall correctly, plus one animation vs 2 or 3 tech animations. It's a good combat system. But my point was never that Chrono Trigger wasn't easy, but that comparing it to other JRPGs that are just as easy or only slightly harder is disingenuous. It's like saying 1 of 2 shit games is good because it's slightly better than the other shit game. It's a dumb argument.
 

Falksi

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If you want an example of great JRPG difficulty, again we go back to Phantasy Star 4. The whole game tests you, but is very beatable too, especially if you know what you're doing. However fights such as the one below with Lashiec pop up semi-regularly.....

eSue4mx.png


VJlFVfc.png


MsWMdg3.png


Here every turn feels like it could be your last, and you're always on edge. You have to make the right choices to defeat him, and employ all you've learned and acquired up until that point to avoid defeat. It's a fantastically weighted fight, which makes every move feel valued.
 
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Falksi

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So I spent a bit of time last night comparing Chrono Trigger with Phantasy Star 4 to try and break down why CT sends me tp sleep, and why PS4 usually keeps me engaged. And the difference between the two is miles apart. Seriously, PS4 is lightyears ahead of CT in the combat department (and most other departments for that matter, but that's for another debate).

Anyway the main thing I found was that in CT, not only is the "game over" screen a nigh-on impossibility until very late game unless you're retarded, but more-so seeing even a single party member fall in combat is a virtual impossibility for a similar amount of time too.

I loaded the game from various save states and played a string of nearby battles, and absolutely none of them were any remote threat at all. The special moves and combos usually only serve to speed up encounters rather than being required to actually win them. Jump over to PS4 and - unless you're over-levelled - you can easily lose a party member if you don't make the right choices. It creates a genuine sense of threat which gives the game far more weight.

PS4 has way more variety to the combat too, with some of the random battles seeing the enemy get pre-emptive attacks and seriously hurting your party before you've even had change to act. It puts you on the backfoot, and thus it is exciting and tense. There's is barely any of that in CT apart from the odd scripted fight.

But the main thing which PS4 does which CT doesn't is that it's often forces you to adapt your tactics. You often have to change things up as the enemies hit you with different attacks from different angles, and so it's far less predictable. That's especially true for boss fights, and so you can rarely settle into a predictable rhythm, there's almost always a trade off between healing/reviving and attacking which needs to be balanced. Now to give CT it's dues, most of that game's boss fights force you to adapt too, but that only usually takes the form in how you setup your party & gear. Once you've got that sussed and choose the right attacks, most boss fights are a cake-walk and often really drawn-out affairs of spamming the same patterns (e.g. the Tyranno fight was something like 8 rounds of Ayla+Chrono Voltbite, Marle heal. There was no change up at all) . Whereas with PS4 you need to set up your party well and find the right attacks just to be in with a shot of winning, and being able to adapt mid-battle is important. I don't recall any boss fights after the early stages where you have few powers where I could pick a routine and stick to it 8 times in a row to win. That's not to say there isn't easy battles, there is, but the big difference is that when you know what you want to do in CT you rarely face much of a challenge doing it, whereas in PS4 you often do. It's not always a difficult challenge, often it is easy, but it's a challenge none-the-less.

Chrono Trigger really is a kids game tbh. I'm not saying it's bad, I enjoyed it when I was in my teens much like I enjoyed watching crap telly. But playing it now is just a drag. PS4 isn't hard at all, but it stimulates and flirts with you far more.
 
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Ash

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Mangoose

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Too bad the RPG systems are seemingly 100% linear, no choice whatsoever; only differ by how much you grind or not + equipment. And even the equipment system looks 100% linear/pointless choice: Items in Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millennium | Phantasy Star Wiki | Fandom

Still, I am curious to give it a chance. Maybe.
Like I said, they took influence from Wizardry I but only the combat. No dungeon mazes. At least the very first Final Fantasy (anybody read 8-bit theater) you created your own characters. Ever since then.. basically it's a narrative with base Wizardry combat.

However, there are once in a while some good games. Especially handheld-wise, there was more latitude. Even if just in adaptation. Had some interesting Gameboy Advanced JRPGs like Golden Sun 1/2, Pokemon - which is like two parties tag-teaming lol. I can't remember but I think there were some others.

Then the DS comes along with Etrian Odyssey, an actual blobber JRPG with dungeon delving and all, influenced similarly from Wizardry but more than just the combat mechanics. (Seriously, the stem of all JRPGs is Wizardry I. They're essentially third-person perspective blobbers instead of first-person perspective American CRPG blobbing.

Though I think Etrian Odyssey went back to first person perspective blobbing. I guess that complements the dungeon delving "style" of Wizardrys.

One thing Chrono Trigger did different is that there are no random encounters. Enemies are plain-to-sight and you can avoid them if you want. I don't believe they respawn, either, so no grinding for joo.

Anybody try Chrono Cross?

Edit: Now I'm curious.. Have the Gold Box games been influential at all? I mean, outside of Black Isle, which was clearly building off those games.
 
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Ash

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Like I said, they took influence from Wizardry I but only the combat. No dungeon mazes. At least the very first Final Fantasy (anybody read 8-bit theater) you created your own characters. Ever since then.. basically it's a narrative with base Wizardry combat.

What is "they"? I am assuming you are referring to JRPGs, in which case there are many that aren't just basic combat with a narrative. Games like CT/Breath of Fire/Earthbound/Suikoden give JRPGs a bad rep.
 

Mangoose

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Like I said, they took influence from Wizardry I but only the combat. No dungeon mazes. At least the very first Final Fantasy (anybody read 8-bit theater) you created your own characters. Ever since then.. basically it's a narrative with base Wizardry combat.

What is "they"? I am assuming you are referring to JRPGs, in which case there are many that aren't just basic combat with a narrative.
I hope you realize that starting a sentence with "basically" means the sentence will be figurative. In this case, hyperbole.

Games like CT/Breath of Fire/Earthbound/Suikoden give JRPGs a bad rep.
There are many if you're looking at the number of games within a franchises, not just the franchises themselves.

Why don't you look at the history of JRPGs?

1984 - Hydlide
1986 - Dragon Quest I - the first Wizardry influenced JRPG franchise
1987 - Final Fantasy I - the second Wizardry influenced JRPG franchise

The structure of JRPGs CAME from Wizardry I. From a business point of view, this Wizardry/JRPG model would be considered a reliable model for profit, so why not reuse it? Why spend the $$ to reinvent the wheel without guaranteed profit? That's how Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon: Another Story did it. Only after the blobber foundation did they build on top new, unique mechanics.

I spent three years nontstop JRPGing on SNES emu - including half translated games - and there are only a few exceptions. What you're talking about are complete outliers because they don't follow the Wizardry/blobber model aka the JRPG model that is most likely to generate profit.

Sure, there are the Lufias. But note they got brushed under the rug along with the Super Famicom. In fact, my concept of a JRPG ends there. Because the 3D "JRPGs" started as cutscene-hell. (And that only the bigger franchises got carried over, with sequel after sequel after sequel). Ironically though I am interested in playing one of the Suikodens but I'm busy playing like 3 CRPGs right now (introverted ADHD is hilarious).

And even in terms of Japanese tactical rpgs... I can only recommend the Tactics Ogres series. Having played enough Silent Storm and the like, FFTactics isn't all grand. But Tactics Ogre is well unique.

Another outlier is Seiken Densetu 3/Trials of Mana (I just found out they officially ported the game just recently. I used to play fan-translated). I could replay that forever; no games like that.

Fake edit: I have no idea what you mean by "CT/Breath of Fire/Earthbound/Suikoden" give JRPGs a bad rep because those are the games I would recommend. Unless you're saying that those make give the rest of JRPGs a "bad rep"... I have no idea what you're talking about.
 

Falksi

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Too bad the RPG systems are seemingly 100% linear, no choice whatsoever; only differ by how much you grind or not + equipment. And even the equipment system looks 100% linear/pointless choice: Items in Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millennium | Phantasy Star Wiki | Fandom

Still, I am curious to give it a chance. Maybe.

Whilst it definitely lacks a lot of flexibility, it's not true that it's that rigid either. Almost every character has a choice of how you can set them up. If I remember rightly.....
  • Chaz has a choice between 2-handed sword or dagger+shield
  • Hahn has a choice between shield + dagger or 2 shields
  • Rune has a choice between shields or wand
  • Raja has a choice between shields or wand
  • Demi has a choice between multishots & single shots
  • Wren has a choice between multishots & single shots
  • Kyra has a choice between twin-slicers, single slicer+shield, or (I think) twin shields
Don't get me wrong as an overall game it is definitely one of the more linear, but it still offers wiggle room.

Progress is based way more on choice in battle, exploiting weaknesses, using combos, and upgrading your cyborgs via exploration than grinding (although obviously that option is there). The only cunter is Gryz, who definitely drags things down with his lack of options.
 

Mangoose

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I was just thinking... Yes, JRPGs are linear in storyline... but intentionally so and with emphasis. As opposed to a linear Western CRPG which has jack shit because nobody besides the japs can write a plot that you want to follow (again, assuming linear, w/o C&C shenanigans... like Oblivion main quest lo). Visual novels ftw
 

wishbonetail

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563
I replayed Chrono Trigger recently and I should say it still holds the title of the best 16 bit JRPG, for me at least. And I played almost all of them.
To compare CT to anything using solely combatfaggotry criteria is just ain't right. Combat is there to give you sense of progression, you bump into things, they die, nothing to talk about. CT has an engaging storyline about time travel. Who wouldn't like that? It doesn't tire out player with random encounters, senseless dungeons, hardcoretacticalbullshit fights, long combat animations, doesn't overly long, doesn't require grinding (pretty much it has nothing that turns most of JRPGs into painful slog) has pretty graphix, memorable characters, diverse locations, sidequests, nonlinearity, interesting plot, nu game+. It really was ahead of its time, basically, it feels like a mainstream product having high production values, doing everything to keep player engaged. And I did not have SNES as a kid mind you, so no pink tint here.
For me top5 16bit JRPGS would look like this:
1.Chrono Trigger
2.Tales of Phantasia
3.Phantasy Star4 (despite that SNES and Genesis are not in the same league concerning graphics and sound quality)
4.Star Ocean
5.Lufia2(or FF6 haven't decided).
And i refrain from inclusion of tactical/chesslike JRPGs.
So to speak, also replayed Shining Force2 for nostalgical reasons and it is just the case of severe pink glasses. It basically doesn't have anything except too long and tedious tactical battles. Story, equipment, character progression, dialogs, graphics, music, basically everything is far inferior to most of SNES' JRPGs. But again, if combat is your life, maybe there's something worthwhile.
 

Gastrick

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I replayed Chrono Trigger recently and I should say it still holds the title of the best 16 bit JRPG, for me at least. And I played almost all of them.
To compare CT to anything using solely combatfaggotry criteria is just ain't right. Combat is there to give you sense of progression, you bump into things, they die, nothing to talk about. CT has an engaging storyline about time travel. Who wouldn't like that? It doesn't tire out player with random encounters, senseless dungeons, hardcoretacticalbullshit fights, long combat animations, doesn't overly long, doesn't require grinding (pretty much it has nothing that turns most of JRPGs into painful slog) has pretty graphix, memorable characters, diverse locations, sidequests, nonlinearity, interesting plot, nu game+. It really was ahead of its time, basically, it feels like a mainstream product having high production values, doing everything to keep player engaged. And I did not have SNES as a kid mind you, so no pink tint here.
For me top5 16bit JRPGS would look like this:
1.Chrono Trigger
2.Tales of Phantasia
3.Phantasy Star4 (despite that SNES and Genesis are not in the same league concerning graphics and sound quality)
4.Star Ocean
5.Lufia2(or FF6 haven't decided).
And i refrain from inclusion of tactical/chesslike JRPGs.
So to speak, also replayed Shining Force2 for nostalgical reasons and it is just the case of severe pink glasses. It basically doesn't have anything except too long and tedious tactical battles. Story, equipment, character progression, dialogs, graphics, music, basically everything is far inferior to most of SNES' JRPGs. But again, if combat is your life, maybe there's something worthwhile.
  • Time travel is always retarded and leads to multiple plot holes, especially if you know anything about space-time physics.
  • The characters: silent personality-less Crono, some girl characters, gay frog-furry thing, some robot. All child-looking with cutesy design.
  • The graphics look ugly and low-res today with how technology has improved.
  • Good touch with how you spelled "new" in "nu game+".
  • Game is a heavy downgrade from Live-a-live, not ahead of its time in the slightest.
 

wishbonetail

Learned
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Oct 18, 2021
Messages
563
I replayed Chrono Trigger recently and I should say it still holds the title of the best 16 bit JRPG, for me at least. And I played almost all of them.
To compare CT to anything using solely combatfaggotry criteria is just ain't right. Combat is there to give you sense of progression, you bump into things, they die, nothing to talk about. CT has an engaging storyline about time travel. Who wouldn't like that? It doesn't tire out player with random encounters, senseless dungeons, hardcoretacticalbullshit fights, long combat animations, doesn't overly long, doesn't require grinding (pretty much it has nothing that turns most of JRPGs into painful slog) has pretty graphix, memorable characters, diverse locations, sidequests, nonlinearity, interesting plot, nu game+. It really was ahead of its time, basically, it feels like a mainstream product having high production values, doing everything to keep player engaged. And I did not have SNES as a kid mind you, so no pink tint here.
For me top5 16bit JRPGS would look like this:
1.Chrono Trigger
2.Tales of Phantasia
3.Phantasy Star4 (despite that SNES and Genesis are not in the same league concerning graphics and sound quality)
4.Star Ocean
5.Lufia2(or FF6 haven't decided).
And i refrain from inclusion of tactical/chesslike JRPGs.
So to speak, also replayed Shining Force2 for nostalgical reasons and it is just the case of severe pink glasses. It basically doesn't have anything except too long and tedious tactical battles. Story, equipment, character progression, dialogs, graphics, music, basically everything is far inferior to most of SNES' JRPGs. But again, if combat is your life, maybe there's something worthwhile.
  • Time travel is always retarded and leads to multiple plot holes, especially if you know anything about space-time physics.
  • The characters: silent personality-less Crono, some girl characters, gay frog-furry thing, some robot. All child-looking with cutesy design.
  • The graphics look ugly and low-res today with how technology has improved.
  • Good touch with how you spelled "new" in "nu game+".
  • Game is a heavy downgrade from Live-a-live, not ahead of its time in the slightest.
Space-time physics? Really? Of course time travel is fucking impossible even in theory, cmon it's a SNES game and it has one of the best phantasy time-travel realisation in videogames.
All characters have distinct character arcs and sidequests wich is always a plus for a storyfag.
SNES resolution is 256x224 but graphics is far from ugly and It still good in camparison to other 16bit art.
Live-a-live, somebody's talking about ugly graphics. I remember i tried some of the scenarious, it didn't grab me partly because of the presentation. Maybe it's some hidden gem, god knows.
 

Ryan muller

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Oct 10, 2021
Messages
83
I'm kind of surprised seeing Chrono Trigger praised for its exploration and *so much* optional content, especially if we are talking the SNES version.

I mean, I get the wonder of the epoch, and what optional content there is, is excellent. But it really isn't much, especially compared to other JRPG's. Nor is there a lot of exploration other than what you already visit in the story. For the optional story bits you even backtrack a lot as well. (Which is where the wonder of the time travel comes in)

Chrono Trigger is a tight, well designed JRPG experience and the OP and others here make it sound like a SAGA title.

Once you obtain the fully functional Epoch there is so much you can do (spoilers ahead). You can fight Lavos right away if you want or you can explore each time period and do the many side quests. You can save humanity from an evil genocidal computer. You can reforest a desert. You can help repair Marle's relationship with her father. You can help put to rest the ghost of a fallen knight. You can resurrect your dead companion. That's a ton of optional content for a SNES RPG from the 90s.

See Falksi

I'm fully aware how much there is to do in Chrono Trigger. Having 100% it 15+ times over the last 19 years (~10 on SNES and 5 on DS+ versions). And no, compared to bigger proponents it isn't. Their high quality, yes. But in pure amount of content it won't take you too long. Nor is there actually that much to explore. (And the optional locations aren't that big).

And again, a lot of it is backtracking and already combined with the story. Like resurrecting your dead companion sounds and is cool, but you're already directed by the story to it and tbh it's just another state to finish the game/fight Lavos in.

BUT let me stress this here: That's not a bad thing.

First off, codex favourites like Fallout 1 aren't any different in this regard. Secondly I'd rather have a side-quest about a seed leading to a short QTE that saves Luca's Mom rather than 3+ additional 50 floor dungeons. Quality > Quantity.

That's probably a fair assessment. Each of the sidequests are pretty short and require backtracking already explored areas. It could be that the optional content just feels more meaningful here because of the way it impacts the characters. That said, prior to playing Chrono Trigger I played FF5 and I felt way more railroaded in FF5. That's been my experience with most JRPGs from this era. It feels like you aren't rewarded for exploring the world, instead you are expected to go from point A to B with no real choice on where to go or how to proceed.


It has more optional content and a open ended second half compared to FfV

But then again, ffv has more build based gameplay rather than exploration, which Chrono lacks as every character role is set on stone and cant be changed.


But yeah, pacing in CT is amazing and it really is one of the best examples of how to design a jrpg correctly.

I would also recommend the SaGa series as its pretty much the definition of what an open ended game is.

My favorite is Frontier, but start with ministrel song

You will quickly notice that each of the selectable characters start at different points in the map and you can explore at your Will, recruit who you want in the order you want and basically build your characters as you wish.

Its the most open ended a jrpg can get
 

Falksi

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Nottingham
I'm kind of surprised seeing Chrono Trigger praised for its exploration and *so much* optional content, especially if we are talking the SNES version.

I mean, I get the wonder of the epoch, and what optional content there is, is excellent. But it really isn't much, especially compared to other JRPG's. Nor is there a lot of exploration other than what you already visit in the story. For the optional story bits you even backtrack a lot as well. (Which is where the wonder of the time travel comes in)

Chrono Trigger is a tight, well designed JRPG experience and the OP and others here make it sound like a SAGA title.

Once you obtain the fully functional Epoch there is so much you can do (spoilers ahead). You can fight Lavos right away if you want or you can explore each time period and do the many side quests. You can save humanity from an evil genocidal computer. You can reforest a desert. You can help repair Marle's relationship with her father. You can help put to rest the ghost of a fallen knight. You can resurrect your dead companion. That's a ton of optional content for a SNES RPG from the 90s.

See Falksi

I'm fully aware how much there is to do in Chrono Trigger. Having 100% it 15+ times over the last 19 years (~10 on SNES and 5 on DS+ versions). And no, compared to bigger proponents it isn't. Their high quality, yes. But in pure amount of content it won't take you too long. Nor is there actually that much to explore. (And the optional locations aren't that big).

And again, a lot of it is backtracking and already combined with the story. Like resurrecting your dead companion sounds and is cool, but you're already directed by the story to it and tbh it's just another state to finish the game/fight Lavos in.

BUT let me stress this here: That's not a bad thing.

First off, codex favourites like Fallout 1 aren't any different in this regard. Secondly I'd rather have a side-quest about a seed leading to a short QTE that saves Luca's Mom rather than 3+ additional 50 floor dungeons. Quality > Quantity.

That's probably a fair assessment. Each of the sidequests are pretty short and require backtracking already explored areas. It could be that the optional content just feels more meaningful here because of the way it impacts the characters. That said, prior to playing Chrono Trigger I played FF5 and I felt way more railroaded in FF5. That's been my experience with most JRPGs from this era. It feels like you aren't rewarded for exploring the world, instead you are expected to go from point A to B with no real choice on where to go or how to proceed.


It has more optional content and a open ended second half compared to FfV

But then again, ffv has more build based gameplay rather than exploration, which Chrono lacks as every character role is set on stone and cant be changed.


But yeah, pacing in CT is amazing and it really is one of the best examples of how to design a jrpg correctly.

I would also recommend the SaGa series as its pretty much the definition of what an open ended game is.

My favorite is Frontier, but start with ministrel song

You will quickly notice that each of the selectable characters start at different points in the map and you can explore at your Will, recruit who you want in the order you want and basically build your characters as you wish.

Its the most open ended a jrpg can get

See I think the pacing of CT is awful. It's great for the first 8-10 hours, but then you find yourself running back and forth between time gates fighting the very same battles over & over. Not to mention that castle level where hidden floor-panels can literally trigger 3 fights in a row.

Starts great for sure, but that middle act is a drag for me.
 

InSight

Learned
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Feb 20, 2020
Messages
366
but is it exciting? Tear-jerking? Feel-good? Humorous? Because that's what FF6 and CT are.
As one who have played both estimated at from mid to past/after teens of age, These emotion were not experienced as far as can be recalled/remembered. The closest were in Chrono Trigger when the frog challenged Magus, or the entrance to Magus room during the summoning ritual but not to length/degree/high as described. These seem mostly caused by the music as the main/major/primary contributing factor. An indicator one is sensitive in the emotional category.

There is interested to know the specific/examples on which event/scenarios in these games did occur to evoke such emotional response/reaction.
 

Ryan muller

Novice
Joined
Oct 10, 2021
Messages
83
I'm kind of surprised seeing Chrono Trigger praised for its exploration and *so much* optional content, especially if we are talking the SNES version.

I mean, I get the wonder of the epoch, and what optional content there is, is excellent. But it really isn't much, especially compared to other JRPG's. Nor is there a lot of exploration other than what you already visit in the story. For the optional story bits you even backtrack a lot as well. (Which is where the wonder of the time travel comes in)

Chrono Trigger is a tight, well designed JRPG experience and the OP and others here make it sound like a SAGA title.

Once you obtain the fully functional Epoch there is so much you can do (spoilers ahead). You can fight Lavos right away if you want or you can explore each time period and do the many side quests. You can save humanity from an evil genocidal computer. You can reforest a desert. You can help repair Marle's relationship with her father. You can help put to rest the ghost of a fallen knight. You can resurrect your dead companion. That's a ton of optional content for a SNES RPG from the 90s.

See Falksi

I'm fully aware how much there is to do in Chrono Trigger. Having 100% it 15+ times over the last 19 years (~10 on SNES and 5 on DS+ versions). And no, compared to bigger proponents it isn't. Their high quality, yes. But in pure amount of content it won't take you too long. Nor is there actually that much to explore. (And the optional locations aren't that big).

And again, a lot of it is backtracking and already combined with the story. Like resurrecting your dead companion sounds and is cool, but you're already directed by the story to it and tbh it's just another state to finish the game/fight Lavos in.

BUT let me stress this here: That's not a bad thing.

First off, codex favourites like Fallout 1 aren't any different in this regard. Secondly I'd rather have a side-quest about a seed leading to a short QTE that saves Luca's Mom rather than 3+ additional 50 floor dungeons. Quality > Quantity.

That's probably a fair assessment. Each of the sidequests are pretty short and require backtracking already explored areas. It could be that the optional content just feels more meaningful here because of the way it impacts the characters. That said, prior to playing Chrono Trigger I played FF5 and I felt way more railroaded in FF5. That's been my experience with most JRPGs from this era. It feels like you aren't rewarded for exploring the world, instead you are expected to go from point A to B with no real choice on where to go or how to proceed.


It has more optional content and a open ended second half compared to FfV

But then again, ffv has more build based gameplay rather than exploration, which Chrono lacks as every character role is set on stone and cant be changed.


But yeah, pacing in CT is amazing and it really is one of the best examples of how to design a jrpg correctly.

I would also recommend the SaGa series as its pretty much the definition of what an open ended game is.

My favorite is Frontier, but start with ministrel song

You will quickly notice that each of the selectable characters start at different points in the map and you can explore at your Will, recruit who you want in the order you want and basically build your characters as you wish.

Its the most open ended a jrpg can get

See I think the pacing of CT is awful. It's great for the first 8-10 hours, but then you find yourself running back and forth between time gates fighting the very same battles over & over. Not to mention that castle level where hidden floor-panels can literally trigger 3 fights in a row.

Starts great for sure, but that middle act is a drag for me.

I played the game multiple times, honestly, giving the ammount of freedom they do in the middle section after a really fast introduction is something i very rarely see on games like that

In fact, jrpgs tend to have really nasty time wasters at some sections, like the horrible desert palace in ff9

Most of Smt SJ's dungeons or just overflowing the game with random encounters.


Chrono is that game ive managed to finish in just 2 days every single time ive started it and thats doing all of its side content, i just cant bring my mind to think its not well paced.
 

Gastrick

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Slow pacing is now a thing of the past thanks to every emulator having a turbo-speed option. Now every JRPG is as fast paced as you want it to be (won't work with atb combat).
I never use this option, because the pacing that JRPGs usually have is a good thing. With chrono trigger, it doesn't properly introduce anything, plot events just happen with no buildup or investment. Also, the gameplay is more satisfying when things take a long time to be accomplished. Like with how the mind's reward cycle works, more time consuming and complex requirements are more rewarding than short and simple ones. With finishing something in 2 days, I finished a JRPG last year(FF1) in a couple days but I was lefting wanting more after. If the game itself is both good and non-repetitive, then it's better if it lasts you as long as possible.
 

Falksi

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I played the game multiple times, honestly, giving the ammount of freedom they do in the middle section after a really fast introduction is something i very rarely see on games like that

In fact, jrpgs tend to have really nasty time wasters at some sections, like the horrible desert palace in ff9

Most of Smt SJ's dungeons or just overflowing the game with random encounters.


Chrono is that game ive managed to finish in just 2 days every single time ive started it and thats doing all of its side content, i just cant bring my mind to think its not well paced.

I guess it boils down to how much tolerance you have for fighting the same battles in the same places over & over & each time you play too. That to me is dull and it drags, and it's what CT does. The lack of variety and random elements make it predictable and boring, which isn't helped by baby-easy combat. You know every time you replay it exactly where each battle is gonna take place and exactly how each battle is gonna pan out (press A to win).

But if that's your thing and you can tolerate it fair play.
 
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Grimlorn

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Jun 1, 2011
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10,058
I guess it boils down to how much tolerance you have for fighting the same battles in the same places over & over & each time you play too. That to me is dull and it drags, and it's what CT does. The lack of variety and random elements make it predictable and boring, which isn't helped by baby-easy combat. You know every time you replay it exactly where each battle is gonna take place and exactly how each battle is gonna pan out (press A to win).

But if that's your thing and you can tolerate it fair play.
iu

See I think the pacing of CT is awful. It's great for the first 8-10 hours, but then you find yourself running back and forth between time gates fighting the very same battles over & over. Not to mention that castle level where hidden floor-panels can literally trigger 3 fights in a row.
Oh no falling into traps leads to getting ambushed. What an awful idea.

The way you guys nitpick everything is funny as hell.
 

Falksi

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what the hell CT and Cross don't even have forced random encounters. just walk away from the monsters bro.

Yes they do. Certain sections, specifically next to the gates (which you have enter any times over before getting the Epoch) have must-play battles (usually triggered by floor panels)
 

Delterius

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Entre a serra e o mar.
what the hell CT and Cross don't even have forced random encounters. just walk away from the monsters bro.

Yes they do. Certain sections, specifically next to the gates (which you have enter any times over before getting the Epoch) have must-play battles (usually triggered by floor panels)
granted but while you can't do a pacifist run of chrono trigger it remains one of those jrpgs that actually put monsters on the world itself and allows you to avoid many of them. a lot of great jrpgs are more repetitive than chrono trigger will ever be.
 

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