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Game News Kevin Saunders explains what the Tides are in "Tides of Numenera"

Infinitron

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Tags: InXile Entertainment; Kevin Saunders; Torment: Tides of Numenera

Replying to a question on his Formspring account, Kevin Saunders revealed a bit about the Torment successor's title:

Well, as you have seen by now, we’ve gone with Torment: Tides of Numenera. =) You may wonder what the significance of "Tides" is. (These are not a core Numenera concept, though they are compatible with the setting in multiple ways.) The Tides are key levers (but not the only ones) in the choices and consequences system we’re designing. They could be loosely compared to D&D's alignments or Ultima IV's principles and virtues. But unlike alignments, they are not in direct opposition to each other and unlike the virtues, you won’t necessarily want to achieve them all. Nor can you, really... you’ll have to decide what’s most important to you.​

The Tides are more nuanced and complex, with the “best” choice for any situation being a personal decision for you (or how you want to play) rather than a decision that we as designers judge. Now, NPCs in the game will certainly judge you based upon their own beliefs and agendas, but we will strive for the game itself to be impartial. We want to provide satisfying reactivity and allow you to explore your own answers, for you to play as you wish and have the game’s story unfold accordingly. We’ll talk more about the Tides down the road and there are aspects of the system for which we’ll be seeking backer input.​

Combining D&D's alignments and Ultima's virtues? Sounds like a selling point!

If you're interested in reading more of Kevin's words of wisdom, he recently gave his opinion of Obsidian's Project Eternity setting. It's interesting that he seems to have anticipated the Kickstarter update about doors two days before it was published...
 

Lancehead

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ksaun said:
we will strive for the game itself to be impartial

Don't quite get what this means. Does it mean that if a person/faction reacts negatively to something the pc does, there'll be another person/faction who'll react positively, so the game is impartial on the whole?
 

FeelTheRads

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ksaun said:
we will strive for the game itself to be impartial

Don't quite get what this means. Does it mean that if a person/faction reacts negatively to something the pc does, there'll be another person/faction who'll react positively, so the game is impartial on the whole?

I think he just means that the game won't have a hidden "deep and moralizing" message. As in trying to get some agenda across.
 

Tigranes

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Works for me, though the game will now have the uneviable abbreviation of T:TON.
 

Indranys

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But why the word tide(s)??
I'm sure there are better words for such a feature/concept.
State, persona, totema, or some fancy stuffs like that.
Tides just sound too generic and not so Torment-esque.
 

Tigranes

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Well, it's better than Virtues of Numenera, Alignments of Numenera, Karma of Numenera, Reputations of Numenera, Daemon of Numenera, Ka of Numenera, etc, etc...

The name of the game is only a major problem when there aren't enough details. Once you know enough, or play the game, the game is what the name means, not the other way round.
 

Indranys

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Well, it's better than Virtues of Numenera, Alignments of Numenera, Karma of Numenera, Reputations of Numenera, Daemon of Numenera, Ka of Numenera, etc, etc...

The name of the game is only a major problem when there aren't enough details. Once you know enough, or play the game, the game is what the name means, not the other way round.

Point taken.
That's pretty meaningful man. :salute:
 

Murk

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s.
I think he just means that the game won't have a hidden "deep and moralizing" message. As in trying to get some agenda across.

I took it to mean that there is no objectively good decision in tides -- that is, there's no clear cut "this is a superior gameplay option than the others".

In most cRPGs playing 'good' is superior to playing 'evil' as you get more content, more rewards, and a better experience overall -- I took the "impartial" comment to mean they hope to avoid that.

Having said that, I'd like to believe that it's impartial in both way
 

Kz3r0

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I still think that my version is better:
Torment:Numerera's Tides.

And I also think that Tides is very fitting for the concept they are trying to implement.
 

FeelTheRads

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I took it to mean that there is no objectively good decision in tides -- that is, there's no clear cut "this is a superior gameplay option than the others".

In most cRPGs playing 'good' is superior to playing 'evil' as you get more content, more rewards, and a better experience overall -- I took the "impartial" comment to mean they hope to avoid that.

Having said that, I'd like to believe that it's impartial in both way

Yeah, could very well be that, I guess. It would make more sense, actually.

Torment did it pretty well, I think, but it definitely could be made better.
 

Murk

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Yeah, could very well be that, I guess. It would make more sense, actually.

Torment did it pretty well, I think, but it definitely could be made better.

I did really like the idea behind the factions and they helped to flesh the world out more but if they were integrated into the gameplay, to a level where joining one is almost as big of a decision as which "class" you are, I'd definitely enjoy that.
 

Gondolin

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It's actually Torment: The
ytATwEo.jpg
of Numenera. Suddenly it all makes sense. I see Kevin Saunders surrounded by boxes of detergent instead of Doritos and Mountain Dew.
 

Misconnected

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Why call it Torment? Wasn't it a reference to TNO's near-immortality? Or did the poor sod walk through a portal to Numenera this time? ... Whatever. I don't actually care what it's called.

I do care about the impartiality of the game, though. On a given playthrough I don't want it to be neutral. I want it to try to convince me to make the kinds of choices I have been avoiding. Not through threat or reward, but through reasonable-sounding arguments.
 

Dexter

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It's a stupid title and they should feel bad for not going with the rather obvious Numenera: Torment.
 

Lancehead

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I think they'll feel good when marketing heavily the Torment brand nets plenty of :takemyjewgold: during the Kickstarter.
 
Self-Ejected

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Yup. He just got the "Torment" trademark. Can't use anything that was in the game. It's basically just the name.
 

Cosmo

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Project: Eternity
Couldn't the word "tide" designates the fact that, just like in Planescape, personal creeds and beliefs will directly influence the world ? A tide would be not only a code of conduct, but also a belief that would sweep over the land and change many things in its wake.
Otherwise why choosing this word over another ?
 

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