King of Dragon Pass - Thoughts and advice requests

[Grunker]

So, after buying this on GoG I now have 5-6 games under my belt. This game is fucking amazing. The gameplay, the lore, the event-based narrative, hell even the graphics are highly appealing. Seems a very good bit of love was put into this game.

I'm playing on easy, with a balanced clan mostly. Orlanth is main deity. because I figure once I've won my first game there I'll transition to normal. And I'm not exactly doing too hot, so I'm here for some advice.

Food: I'm actually doing quite well here. I had one game where people started starving quickly, but otherwise a combination of Earthblood and most other crop-related shrines have worked well.

Shrines: It seems like you can't have enough of these motherfuckers, but they're quite costly if you get enough of them. What seems to work really well is a bunch of crop-related stuff, a Curing shrine and then as many Combat bonuses you can afford. Trouble is, that rarely seems to be many.

Cattle: My numbers always start to dwindle here. While this is not the direct reason for my losses, it always starts here. I'm stingy with sacrificing them, I'm using the Cow shrine, and so on. However, once I start getting raided I can never make up for the losses of cattle I incur.

Questing: Is this shit really worth it? Even after figuring out the correct responses in the Cow Mother quest and succeeding (the only time I've succeded at a quest) I've failed on all other quests. First you have to figure out the correct way to do things - which doesn't always correspond directly to the myth, and is sometimes not even mentioned there - and then a good deal of luck comes into play. I guess it doesn't really cost that much to quest though, but it seems like a waste of time when you could be managing important stuff.

Relations: Sooner or later my relations begin to deteriorate. Devoting time to sending emissaries to all the clans to make friends is just a luxury I can rarely afford.

So in the end, I lose when I get cattle raided too often (regular raids I manage quite well), lose too much cattle, and things start to spiral downwards.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

Horrible creatures, I avoid them when I can.

 

[laclongquan]

Hero Quest is the way to power

+ You need to know its correct path.
+ You also need your character who is questing has the needed stats, or needed correct goddess. YOu can overpower stat check with sacrifices and magic in certain cases, but that cut into your "profit", so it's solution of last resort

The correct way to do it is to find and train a major god/goddess follower in correct stats, then hero quest of that god/goddess once a year, with reward to increase power of that follower or the whole tribe. Do that in two or three years and you have an awesome hero(ine). With that, you now can try to attempt other quests.

After I hit my stride, I do it annually, mostly to increase power/knowledge, and to hunt treasures.

There's actually very little random roll here. If you achieve or surpass the stats needed, you almost never fail.

 

[JudasIscariot]

Grunker

I just managed to make a tribe and become king...and have my clan disband immediately thereafter because I was severely lacking in cows so I feel fully qualified to offer some advice :D

About tribal relations:

Find one clan that is weaker than you in the beginning of the game. A ring member will inform you of the weakest one. Raid them and only them. Repeatedly. Raid them for cows using at the most 3 weaponthanes and maybe 6 footmen. You should succeed in netting some cows without any cost to you and it helps to keep your warriors happy and brings in some beef :D. When a clan asks for a favor or two, try sending in emissaries to that clan once their clan name turns blue on your map. Offer to make an alliance, using lavish gifts as necessary and appeal to that clan's chief using whatever the ring member responsible for negotiations advises.

About heroquests:

Always make sure you use a follower of the god whose quest you are performing and spend some magic at the Sacred Time for quests if you are planning on performing a quest during that year. Make sure to read the myth related to the heroquest and try writing down key points that occur in that myth. Don't forget that you can always save just before doing a quest and there's no penalty for doing so. Save early, save often, and in different slots applies in this game :D.

About gods:

Do your best to ensure that your clan's chief is a follower of your primary god i.e. the first god you awakened during the questionaire. Try to ensure you have most of the gods represented in your ring to ensure the best magic and other bonuses. Try to have the sacrifice match the god i.e. Issaries is a trade god and will be more bountiful with his blessing if you sacrifice goods instead of cows. If you take thralls into your clan, you CAN sacrifice them and gain a major boost from some gods but your clan relations suffer because, apparently, saccing thralls is seen as a desperate move by most of the clans.

Other ways to improve relations with other clans:

Sometimes you'll have refugees coming to your clan, looking for a home or running away from something. If you have the option to do so, send to them to another clan. Later on, you might get a message about how that clan got to prove their honor and that your relations with them have improved because of that.

About exploring:

Try to send out a search party every now and then, you never know what you'll find. Favorable finds are the body of a dragonnewt (free dragonnewt armor for your best warrior in the clan), a banner that you can either use for yourself or trade away to improve relations with the clan of your choice, or a tribe of ducks which for the most part are pushovers that you can either extract annual tribute from or just push them out and grab their land for yourself.

Don't raid too much as this depletes your cows and prevents you from protecting your home ground when you go raiding.

I still have trouble maintaining a good supply of cows. I would like to establish trade routes for goods and cows but most of the damned clans are a pain in the dick to make trade routes with. I think if you get to be allies with them, it helps to make a trade route but I've failed even then. I think most of this is just RNG and trial and error. :D

 

[Grunker]

Thanks for the suggestions, keep 'em coming. Will try to follow some of them.

you can always save just before doing a quest and there's no penalty for doing so

Not going to do this. If I saved before each daring venture this game would become a cakewalk, lol. "oops, didn't work, reload."

 

[JudasIscariot]

Thanks for the suggestions, keep 'em coming. Will try to follow some of them.

you can always save just before doing a quest and there's no penalty for doing so

Not going to do this. If I saved before each daring venture this game would become a cakewalk, lol. "oops, didn't work, reload."

I only save before heroquests and the game is far from a cakewalk :D. This is on Average on a Long game.

 

[mondblut]

Picking nomads as enemies provides an endless supply of horses, if you can handle them.

When asked to split the tribe, tell them to fuck off. Tell any larper who whines that tribes should stay small to fuck off, too.

Don't piss off the ducks.

Keep the eggs.

Savescum.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

I tried to play without savescumming on heroquests, but come on. It can be really hard to guess the right choices, and even then RNG can screw you over so you'll never even know if you picked the right path.

 

[Grunker]

Maybe on Heroquests, I guess...

Savescum.

:O

 

[Raghar]

I thought losing is fun, and wining is fun even more.

 

[JudasIscariot]

I tried to play without savescumming on heroquests, but come on. It can be really hard to guess the right choices, and even then RNG can screw you over so you'll never even know if you picked the right path.

If you read the myth that is the basis for the heroquest, you should get an inkling of what the right choices are. Of course, those damned heroquests do tend to deviate from their original lore at times but I *think* that is dependent on a couple of factors: your Ring makeup - how many gods are represented? If you have all 7 then you get a slight bonus. How much magic do you have? The more, the merrier. Did you put aside 1 point for Quests at Sacred Time? That helps some. Is the person who is going to perform the ques actually fit to do so? The game doesn't always choose the best person, so examine your people closely and pick as best as you can. It also helps to call in favors and get other clan/tribe members to come in and help with the ceremony.

 

[mondblut]

I tried to play without savescumming on heroquests, but come on. It can be really hard to guess the right choices, and even then RNG can screw you over so you'll never even know if you picked the right path.

You are missing the point. You can research the minute details of a myth and make all the right choices. With an ubercharacter of correct faith, too. And still get fucked, time and again, because the game thinks it's lulzy to have its RNG trump my dutiful preparations.

Well, fuck you, game, I think it's lulzy to have my saveload trump your shitty RNG, bitch.

 

[SCO]

There's another factor... a god is special for magic.

 

[Gragt]

If you need cattle, you can ask the other tribes for favours. Some of them likely owe you favour at the start of the game. Do cattle raids often with a small number as it isn't really considered a hostile action, and just flee if you are discovered. Also I haven't experimented much with it, so someone with more insight may disagree, but having as many craftsmen as you can support will make give you lots of goods to trade, even with diminishing returns.

 

[eric__s]

Take all your guys off of hunting and put them in making goods. Explore the area around your tula several times and you'll find materials that allow you to create more valuable goods. Once you start making a decent number of goods a season, start trading them for more important things like treasures, cattle and horses. Unlike the rest of the resources in the game, goods aren't really used for anything other than currency, so it's okay to throw them around and get low on them, but you always want to try to produce a lot. Setting up trade routes with other clans also helps to increase your seasonal goods income.

 

[laclongquan]

Heroquest need the questing hero(ine) has the needed stats. If that quest present option for fighting, that hero should have some fighting skills. Martial quests sometimes present Lore options, and vice versa, Agriculture (cow goddess) quest can present martial option. That's where your knowledge of the quest come in handy: if your hero got the needed stat, choose that option. If not choose other if possible.

As for raids, if you enemies are nomad horse barbarians, you will be raided constantly. Maintain a good defense and Earthblood up you will have beneficial effect on crops, plus horses if you are good. IIRC this option also help you steal the gold horse quite easily. Otherwise it's a bloody hard quest to do.

 

[Linden]

If you don't like random numbers, there is a certain treasure that "evens out things"...

edit: Just read mondblut's post. Savescumming is a sin, and savescumming in a game like KoDP is a mortal sin. Why play the game at all if you're just gonna reload whenever you get a suboptimal outcome? The randomness factor - the fact that you can never be sure of success - is the very thing that makes the game so immensely playable and replayable. Heroquests are no exception. Isn't it pretty damn boring to heroquest knowing that you can't fail?

 

[SCO]

Hero quests can make your ring godly. Still remember my great queen... heroic at everything IIRC. It was that angry redhead.

Having a fool in the ring (but not as leader IIRC for obvious reasons) gives you a magic bonus at sacred time)

Fuck it, REPLAYING!

 

[Bulba]

Don't listen to those losers that savescum - it kills the game and experience. It's a lot of fun losing but if you manage to win no mater what crap this game throws at you with all the bad luck - it's just

 

[oscar]

Getting a solid goods production (as cboyardee said don't neglect the establishment of trade routes) is the next step after stabilising agriculture. Goods are great because you can use them in lieu for magic, treasures, cattle, food etc when people come asking for favours or you need to give gifts during diplomacy. Production of goods gives you some measure of stability and flexibility and acts as a nice pincushion for events that would otherwise suck away your more important resources.

Cattle raids are an essential way to get cows fast and without starting a war. Plus they stop the weaponthanes complaining if your going for a more defensive/peaceful playthrough. Don't risk a big expedition and cut your losses if you get detected (unless your overflowing in thanes and can weather a few being killed/injured).

As said, horse nomads as your ancestral enemy pretty much becomes a free horse supply once you get a solid military but can be a major pain if things go peach shaped.

Get a shrine to Chalana Arroy. You'll pretty much always get use out of it (curing after dark season and healing after a bloody battle).

One more thing: There will be consequences to pissing off the elder races. Some minor. Some big.

In any case this is a game where it's pretty entertaining to lose so just have a blast, don't savescum and try roll with the punches (goods are the key to this).

 

[Bulba]

I've just fired up the game and remembered the best tactic to get very rich - when you attack someone try taking hostages and then trade them back for goods and stuff - very profitable (1 hostabe = 10 cows woth of loot and if lucky you can get dozens of hostages).
Concentrate on the weaponthanes not crafters

 

[laclongquan]

If you go for crafters it is an entirely different way to play.

 

[Bulba]

seriosly, you get soooo many goods you won't know what do to with them

 

[Malakal]

Focusing on Humakt is the way to go in my opinion. Getting a huge temple and three of his blessings and a good cadre of weaponthanes makes you invincible, especially with Vingas fyrdwomen blessing. Once you have secured your military safety you cant really lose.

To start simply trade all your favors for cows, cattle raid a bit, get Barntar blessings and never ever give/sacrifice/trade cows for anything else. Unless you get unlucky with food production (which isnt that random and you are guaranteed to start with average) starvation wont be a problem.

 

[mondblut]

edit: Just read mondblut's post. Savescumming is a sin, and savescumming in a game like KoDP is a mortal sin.

Good. To sin is fun.

Why play the game at all if you're just gonna reload whenever you get a suboptimal outcome?

That's not about always getting optimal outcome. That's about having probabilities I find plausible. I do not advocate reloading until you get a string of natural 20s to kill a dragon with level 1 fighter, but if the game insists on giving me a string of natural 1s to get killed by a housecat, rest assured I will treat that as a bug. My estimation of a given event to happen trumps the one calculated by the game (because I am that good), and whenever its calculations are way off, I reject that.

Likewise, there is a little point of savescumming when doing an unknown heroquest with an unsuitable character, the probability of success are justly negligible and I wouldn't bother even starting that. OTOH, when I am 100% prepared, I fully expect to have easy success, and unless there is some serious factor I failed to deal with (and therefore am in truth not fully ready), I consider anything less than that an error in the probabilty computation which I am ought to correct via trying again.

The randomness factor - the fact that you can never be sure of success - is the very thing that makes the game so immensely playable and replayable.

"Replayable"? What's that?

Heroquests are no exception. Isn't it pretty damn boring to heroquest knowing that you can't fail?

Normally, when people want to achieve some end, they do every possible preparation in their power to guarantee their success. How dull of them, right?

Also, not failing a heroquest means getting a stat increase, and stat increases are never boring.