Kingdom Come: Deliverance II - Henry's coming to see us on February 4th

[uajii]

Never had a problem with this supposed "jank". Not saying it's perfect but compared to your average Bethesda game Kingcom Come felt like the mother of all AAA games.

Kingdom Come in the main suffers from having had two leads each of which had a completely different vision for the game. We have Vavra, who is big into cinematic narratives (and is surprisingly good at it), and then you have the Operation Flashpoint guy who is into simulation and being hard core and shit.

I don't know exactly how development went but it's obvious those guys each did their thing separately and there was some difficutly trying to put the two toghether. And that's pretty much it as far as i'm concerned.

Well, that's complete bullshit. You just look at someone's resumé and make assumptions. Viktor joint Operation Flashpoint late when the game mechanics were basically finished and his job was to write the story and design missions. He literally said in his podcast it was too much of a simulation for his taste and he tried to gamify it. He's also critical of new Arma games, because in his mind they rely too heavy on simulation and they are not games enough. His favorite games are Zelda and Dark Souls.

Vávra was pretty much responsible for every design decision in Mafia 1 and he put there all the simulation and hardcore stuff, that some people find tedious. Like that the old cars go slowly up the hill, you have to obey the traffic rules, racing cars are hard to control etc.

Also, KCD didn't have two leads. Vávra was the co-founder of the studio and its creative director, Viktor was just an employee and the lead technical designer. The game was Vávra's vision and he wrote the original design document. Viktor's job was to lead a team of scripters and put Vávra's ideas into code. He had creative freedom in some parts like the combat system. I think Vávra just said make it immersive, authentic to the period and easy to control on both gamepad and m&k.

 

[Infinitron]

uajii Anything you'd like to tell us about yourself?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

If uajii is Vavra, you bitches better not start another turn-based beef with him.

And if it's Smejki undercover (in his new politically correct Belgian digs), no bear jokes!

 

[ArchAngel]

If uajii is Vavra, you bitches better not start another turn-based beef with him.

And if it's Smejki undercover (in his new politically correct Belgian digs), no bear jokes!

I find it hard to bear rules that make no sense. Your turn.

 

[AwesomeButton]

If uajii is Vavra, you bitches better not start another turn-based beef with him.

And if it's Smejki undercover (in his new politically correct Belgian digs), no bear jokes!

My money is on uajii being Smejki. Vavra coming here would be too good.

 

[NecroLord]

If uajii is Vavra, you bitches better not start another turn-based beef with him.

And if it's Smejki undercover (in his new politically correct Belgian digs), no bear jokes!

Yeah.
Smejki was disappointed by the lack of historically accurate black bohemian trannies in MEDIEVAL BOHEMIAN KANGDOM.
Also had beef with Daniel Vavra, for whatever reason...
Did he steal his sweetrolls or something?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Oh stop whining, smejki was a cool dude. He always answered questions and revealed interesting info. I don't even hold the belgian bear move against him, swen is rolling in gold now, cause apparently everyone is an ursamaniac. Who knew...

 

[Lyric Suite]

Never had a problem with this supposed "jank". Not saying it's perfect but compared to your average Bethesda game Kingcom Come felt like the mother of all AAA games.

Kingdom Come in the main suffers from having had two leads each of which had a completely different vision for the game. We have Vavra, who is big into cinematic narratives (and is surprisingly good at it), and then you have the Operation Flashpoint guy who is into simulation and being hard core and shit.

I don't know exactly how development went but it's obvious those guys each did their thing separately and there was some difficutly trying to put the two toghether. And that's pretty much it as far as i'm concerned.

Well, that's complete bullshit. You just look at someone's resumé and make assumptions. Viktor joint Operation Flashpoint late when the game mechanics were basically finished and his job was to write the story and design missions. He literally said in his podcast it was too much of a simulation for his taste and he tried to gamify it. He's also critical of new Arma games, because in his mind they rely too heavy on simulation and they are not games enough. His favorite games are Zelda and Dark Souls.

Vávra was pretty much responsible for every design decision in Mafia 1 and he put there all the simulation and hardcore stuff, that some people find tedious. Like that the old cars go slowly up the hill, you have to obey the traffic rules, racing cars are hard to control etc.

Also, KCD didn't have two leads. Vávra was the co-founder of the studio and its creative director, Viktor was just an employee and the lead technical designer. The game was Vávra's vision and he wrote the original design document. Viktor's job was to lead a team of scripters and put Vávra's ideas into code. He had creative freedom in some parts like the combat system. I think Vávra just said make it immersive, authentic to the period and easy to control on both gamepad and m&k.

Fair enough, but it's a fact Kingdom Come is a bit schitzrophenic in the way it wants to be both a cinematic story driven game and an open world simulation.

It's not anything that ruins the game but it's definitely there.

Besides, from what you are saying what i said is still somewhat correct. Vavra had control over the game but still left the "technical" aspect to Viktor. It's possible that without the contributions of the latter, Kingdom Come might have still been "authentic" but not entirely in the same way. After all, Mafia was also relatively authentic with a lot of attention to details but wasn't anything like this.

Operation Flashpoint was one of the best gaming experiences i've had and Kingdom Come in many places felt similar (and anybody who didn't play the game in hard core was a faggot. Sorry). The "Armaness" is still there and that's one of the things i liked about it.

 

[uajii]

Most of the jank came from attempting things that were a bit too ambitious for a small studio, monastery quest is a good example.

Having just beaten the game for the second time, I've found the monastery quest less insufferable than on my first run, but it's so unbelievably janky.

1) Too much of the monastery quest consists of staring at the loading screens. Your every day at the monastery goes like this - you wake up, go to the mass, press "wait" and look at the loading screen. Go have breakfast, speak to the novices there (if you must), press wait, look at the loading screen. Go to the alchemy lab, make a potion, press "wait", look at the loading screen. Go to the library, watch the cutscene of Henry sitting down, translate the text, press "wait", look at the loading screen. Go to the mass, press "wait", look at the loading screen. Have dinner, press "wait", look at the loading screen. The night comes, you now have the opportunity to go about your business as you please, because the circators spend the entire night at drinking and gambling at the cellar, so nobody is actually patrolling the monastery to create the engaging stealth game experience.
Was this really the best way possible to design this quest's gameplay? Why not just make the mass a cutscene, and autoskip 2 hours after you finish your job at the alchemy lab and the library? The game clearly wants you to do all your dirty business at night, so it's not like there's incentive to skip mass, or play truant after finishing your potions for the day. Was staring at all those loading screens really necessary?

2) It's the first time stealth and lockpicking come into the focus and demand you to use them, and fuck you if you've been playing a good boy Henry who never stole or cheated in his life. Now that I think about it, I think there is actually a way to beat the quest without lockpicking (go to the cellar, see the circators drink, find out about Lucas' bullying, ask the circators to stop, find out from Lucas that Antonius is a fraud, confront Antonius, get out by buying the key from Cellarius with money you get from Jodok's stash), but that requires ridiculous level of precision - I never managed to trigger Lucas's quest in my first playthrough, because I think you need to ask Jodok about him after you're already buddies with the circators. It also may require finding the dagger you find in a locked chest. I'll test it around some in my free time.

3) Unfulfilled potential. Reporting the circators to the prior does nothing, reporting violations to the election guy does nothing, the election plotline goes nowhere.

I think their idea was to have players to experience monastery life how it was back then with all the stupid rules monks had to follow. But of course when you translate that into gameplay it sucks. Especially when the first time players don't know you're supposed to do everything at night and it's not mandatory to do the monastery jobs like brewing potions. Ideally you should be able to finish the quest in two days so the constant waiting wouldn't be such a problem, but most players get stuck there for a week, get constantly thrown in jail by the circators and then they find the whole quest frustrating. Even just acquiring a lock pick can take days.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I think their idea was to have players to experience monastery life how it was back then with all the stupid rules monks had to follow.

The problem is that there was nothing "stupid" about the rules. The game messed up by making that assumption and failing to actually portray monastery life as it actually was.

The mistrust of religion found in this game is the most "inauthentic" aspect of it. The way religious life was expunged from society besides some token references here and there is easily the least realistic thing of the game. Back then religion was pervasive and was SERIOUS, serious enough to fight wars over it.

 

[uajii]

If uajii is Vavra, you bitches better not start another turn-based beef with him.

And if it's Smejki undercover (in his new politically correct Belgian digs), no bear jokes!

I'm not either of them and I don't have any insider knowledge from the studio. They said all of those things in podcasts and interviews, unfortunatelly most of them are in Czech only.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Czech mate...

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Never had a problem with this supposed "jank". Not saying it's perfect but compared to your average Bethesda game Kingcom Come felt like the mother of all AAA games.

Kingdom Come in the main suffers from having had two leads each of which had a completely different vision for the game. We have Vavra, who is big into cinematic narratives (and is surprisingly good at it), and then you have the Operation Flashpoint guy who is into simulation and being hard core and shit.

I don't know exactly how development went but it's obvious those guys each did their thing separately and there was some difficutly trying to put the two toghether. And that's pretty much it as far as i'm concerned.

Well, that's complete bullshit. You just look at someone's resumé and make assumptions. Viktor joint Operation Flashpoint late when the game mechanics were basically finished and his job was to write the story and design missions. He literally said in his podcast it was too much of a simulation for his taste and he tried to gamify it. He's also critical of new Arma games, because in his mind they rely too heavy on simulation and they are not games enough. His favorite games are Zelda and Dark Souls.

Vávra was pretty much responsible for every design decision in Mafia 1 and he put there all the simulation and hardcore stuff, that some people find tedious. Like that the old cars go slowly up the hill, you have to obey the traffic rules, racing cars are hard to control etc.

Also, KCD didn't have two leads. Vávra was the co-founder of the studio and its creative director, Viktor was just an employee and the lead technical designer. The game was Vávra's vision and he wrote the original design document. Viktor's job was to lead a team of scripters and put Vávra's ideas into code. He had creative freedom in some parts like the combat system. I think Vávra just said make it immersive, authentic to the period and easy to control on both gamepad and m&k.

Fair enough, but it's a fact Kingdom Come is a bit schitzrophenic in the way it wants to be both a cinematic story driven game and an open world simulation.

It's not anything that ruins the game but it's definitely there.

Besides, from what you are saying what i said is still somewhat correct. Vavra had control over the game but still left the "technical" aspect to Viktor. It's possible that without the contributions of the latter, Kingdom Come might have still been "authentic" but not entirely in the same way. After all, Mafia was also relatively authentic with a lot of attention to details but wasn't anything like this.

Operation Flashpoint was one of the best gaming experiences i've had and Kingdom Come in many places felt similar (and anybody who didn't play the game in hard core was a faggot. Sorry). The "Armaness" is still there and that's one of the things i liked about it.

I still don't understand why you think it's bad (as implicitly implied by your use of schitzo). There is absolutely nothing wrong with combining strong narratives with sandbox/simulation elements. If anything, as much as I like the Witcher games, CDProjektRed could learn from this and improve their gameplay somewhat.

 

[thesecret1]

but which one was the breakthrough

Tbh, who cares? That's a historical tidbit with no actual impact on gameplay. When I boot up a game, I care about the stuff in the game, not the trivia surrounding it. Thief 2 had more gameplay elements with the various cameras and such, and fewer of those awful Indiana Jones-like levels, which marks it a better game in my eyes. Not saying Thief 1 was bad or anything, but Thief 2 was better.

 

[NecroLord]

Smejki has me on Ignore, by the way.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Never had a problem with this supposed "jank". Not saying it's perfect but compared to your average Bethesda game Kingcom Come felt like the mother of all AAA games.

Kingdom Come in the main suffers from having had two leads each of which had a completely different vision for the game. We have Vavra, who is big into cinematic narratives (and is surprisingly good at it), and then you have the Operation Flashpoint guy who is into simulation and being hard core and shit.

I don't know exactly how development went but it's obvious those guys each did their thing separately and there was some difficutly trying to put the two toghether. And that's pretty much it as far as i'm concerned.

Well, that's complete bullshit. You just look at someone's resumé and make assumptions. Viktor joint Operation Flashpoint late when the game mechanics were basically finished and his job was to write the story and design missions. He literally said in his podcast it was too much of a simulation for his taste and he tried to gamify it. He's also critical of new Arma games, because in his mind they rely too heavy on simulation and they are not games enough. His favorite games are Zelda and Dark Souls.

Vávra was pretty much responsible for every design decision in Mafia 1 and he put there all the simulation and hardcore stuff, that some people find tedious. Like that the old cars go slowly up the hill, you have to obey the traffic rules, racing cars are hard to control etc.

Also, KCD didn't have two leads. Vávra was the co-founder of the studio and its creative director, Viktor was just an employee and the lead technical designer. The game was Vávra's vision and he wrote the original design document. Viktor's job was to lead a team of scripters and put Vávra's ideas into code. He had creative freedom in some parts like the combat system. I think Vávra just said make it immersive, authentic to the period and easy to control on both gamepad and m&k.

Fair enough, but it's a fact Kingdom Come is a bit schitzrophenic in the way it wants to be both a cinematic story driven game and an open world simulation.

It's not anything that ruins the game but it's definitely there.

Besides, from what you are saying what i said is still somewhat correct. Vavra had control over the game but still left the "technical" aspect to Viktor. It's possible that without the contributions of the latter, Kingdom Come might have still been "authentic" but not entirely in the same way. After all, Mafia was also relatively authentic with a lot of attention to details but wasn't anything like this.

Operation Flashpoint was one of the best gaming experiences i've had and Kingdom Come in many places felt similar (and anybody who didn't play the game in hard core was a faggot. Sorry). The "Armaness" is still there and that's one of the things i liked about it.

I still don't understand why you think it's bad (as implicitly implied by your use of schitzo). There is absolutely nothing wrong with combining strong narratives with sandbox/simulation elements. If anything, as much as I like the Witcher games, CDProjektRed could learn from this and improve their gameplay somewhat.

It's not that it's bad it's that real life doesn't feel like a movie and by making Henry's story move like a movie you essentially end up with two problems. First, the movie is ever carrying you forward, meaning it's difficult to "live" out Henry's life on a daily basis. There's a plot going and it's compelling you to follow it. But if you decide to ignore the plot and focus on a simulation of Henry's daily existence, you lose the momentum of the story. It feels like you put a movie you were watching on pause only to resume it later.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Never had a problem with this supposed "jank". Not saying it's perfect but compared to your average Bethesda game Kingcom Come felt like the mother of all AAA games.

Kingdom Come in the main suffers from having had two leads each of which had a completely different vision for the game. We have Vavra, who is big into cinematic narratives (and is surprisingly good at it), and then you have the Operation Flashpoint guy who is into simulation and being hard core and shit.

I don't know exactly how development went but it's obvious those guys each did their thing separately and there was some difficutly trying to put the two toghether. And that's pretty much it as far as i'm concerned.

Well, that's complete bullshit. You just look at someone's resumé and make assumptions. Viktor joint Operation Flashpoint late when the game mechanics were basically finished and his job was to write the story and design missions. He literally said in his podcast it was too much of a simulation for his taste and he tried to gamify it. He's also critical of new Arma games, because in his mind they rely too heavy on simulation and they are not games enough. His favorite games are Zelda and Dark Souls.

Vávra was pretty much responsible for every design decision in Mafia 1 and he put there all the simulation and hardcore stuff, that some people find tedious. Like that the old cars go slowly up the hill, you have to obey the traffic rules, racing cars are hard to control etc.

Also, KCD didn't have two leads. Vávra was the co-founder of the studio and its creative director, Viktor was just an employee and the lead technical designer. The game was Vávra's vision and he wrote the original design document. Viktor's job was to lead a team of scripters and put Vávra's ideas into code. He had creative freedom in some parts like the combat system. I think Vávra just said make it immersive, authentic to the period and easy to control on both gamepad and m&k.

Fair enough, but it's a fact Kingdom Come is a bit schitzrophenic in the way it wants to be both a cinematic story driven game and an open world simulation.

It's not anything that ruins the game but it's definitely there.

Besides, from what you are saying what i said is still somewhat correct. Vavra had control over the game but still left the "technical" aspect to Viktor. It's possible that without the contributions of the latter, Kingdom Come might have still been "authentic" but not entirely in the same way. After all, Mafia was also relatively authentic with a lot of attention to details but wasn't anything like this.

Operation Flashpoint was one of the best gaming experiences i've had and Kingdom Come in many places felt similar (and anybody who didn't play the game in hard core was a faggot. Sorry). The "Armaness" is still there and that's one of the things i liked about it.

I still don't understand why you think it's bad (as implicitly implied by your use of schitzo). There is absolutely nothing wrong with combining strong narratives with sandbox/simulation elements. If anything, as much as I like the Witcher games, CDProjektRed could learn from this and improve their gameplay somewhat.

It's not that it's bad it's that real life doesn't feel like a movie and by making Henry's story move like a movie you essentially end up with two problems. First, the movie is ever carrying you forward, meaning it's difficult to "live" out Henry's life on a daily basis. There's a plot going and it's compelling you to follow it. But if you decide to ignore the plot and focus on a simulation of Henry's daily existence, you lose the momentum of the story. It feels like you put a movie you were watching on pause only to resume it later.

Well, any approach you do is going to have some issues. Obviously, the best approach is something like Dwarf Fortress, where you have such a wealth of procedural systems, that they will write stories procedurally, but that's not feasible for most developers.

Short of that, if you have a sandbox game without a strong narrative, you get something like Warband or Kenshi. Now maybe you are happy with that, but a lot of people find it rather boring and lacking in purpose. Or you can have a narrative game without any sandbox elements, which is also typically lacking in gameplay.

So if anything, I think KCD hit a good balance.

 

[Lord_Potato]

And if it's Smejki undercover (in his new politically correct Belgian digs), no bear jokes!

Sorry, but that's too much to bear!

 

[NecroLord]

And if it's Smejki undercover (in his new politically correct Belgian digs), no bear jokes!

Sorry, but that's too much to bear!

I have a joke, but I am trying to remember it, so bear with me...

 

[Harthwain]

I don't understand these people saying "#2 was better than the first" for games from those times where the sequels were released on the next year (like how they release 15 hrs of playtime minor dlcs nowadays). Fallout, Thief, were games which broke new ground for games, period. It was a 0-to-1 progress. "And God created a genre." How can someone say the second is better than the first? Sure QoL, sure, accessibility and polish, but which one was the breakthrough? Can you even seperate them?

It all depends on how you look at it. #2 is an improved version of #1, so it often gets liked more (and considered "better than the first") as a result (unless people don't like the changes).

 

[ADL]

Middle-earth Enterprises & Friends​

After this new split, Middle-earth Enterprises & Friends is "intended to remain a creative powerhouse in AAA game development and publishing for PC/console," a press release reads. It will remain the stewards of The Lord of the Rings and Tomb Raider IPs, with its main focus being the former.

It will consist of studios like Crystal Dynamics, Dambuster Studios, Eidos-Montréal, Flying Wild Hog Studios, Tripwire, Vertigo Games, Warhorse Studios, 4A Games, and more, with IPs including Dead Island, Killing Floor, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, The Lord of the Rings, Metro, and Tomb Raider.

https://www.gameinformer.com/news/2...e-companies-including-one-called-middle-earth

 

[Lord_Potato]

Middle-earth Enterprises & Friends​

After this new split, Middle-earth Enterprises & Friends is "intended to remain a creative powerhouse in AAA game development and publishing for PC/console," a press release reads. It will remain the stewards of The Lord of the Rings and Tomb Raider IPs, with its main focus being the former.

It will consist of studios like Crystal Dynamics, Dambuster Studios, Eidos-Montréal, Flying Wild Hog Studios, Tripwire, Vertigo Games, Warhorse Studios, 4A Games, and more, with IPs including Dead Island, Killing Floor, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, The Lord of the Rings, Metro, and Tomb Raider.

https://www.gameinformer.com/news/2...e-companies-including-one-called-middle-earth

So Embracer divides into 3 companies but somehow Middle-earth & Friends claim all the best IPs and games.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Henry, son of the blacksmith, son of Radzig, son of Aragorn, son of Arathorn...

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

So Embracer divides into 3 companies but somehow Middle-earth & Friends claim all the best IPs and games.

Maybe they're still trying to pull off a smaller scale version of what they supposedly tried with the Saudis?

It's probably easier to liquidate assets that don't come in a randomized candy bag too. Anyone interested in buying the "crown jewels" package likely won't have much use for a boardgame company or random mobile shovelware.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

How can someone say the second is better than the first?

Because it is