Kingsvein - new tactical RPG from Rad Codex set in subterranean world

[Grampy_Bone]

Is there only sword, spear, and flail for melee skills? No more fist or axes?

 

[Koschey]

Is there only sword, spear, and flail for melee skills? No more fist or axes?

Fist skill is in, Axe and Hammer skills are out judging by the classes I have unlocked already (though there are some clubs and hammers in the game, just no damage scaling skill).

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Cool, then I'll put Zavarde on flails.

Also, obligatory

 

[Kaivokz]

What combos are everyone trying?

I’ve been working a lot, so I haven’t had a lot of time to play yet, but I want to try a suplex judgment combination. Suplex enemy into the middle of 4 allies or into a corner, then echo cast judgments on it.

For silliness it would be fun to have everyone else besides the suplexer cast echo’d judgments so the enemy gets hit by 8+ bolts.


On the game so far: really enjoying the exploration. Using spells to reach new areas, finding difficult encounters that I have to mark as a place to come back to, etc. Hand-designed levels are a great and refreshing return to Voidspire. Also, I saw symfonikev wrote a complete original soundtrack for the game and so far it does not disappoint—getting vibes of Uematsu crossed with Shining Force, and some very fresh sounding tracks too.

 

[Yosharian]

So like, what's the deal with the specialization thing. I put the mage spec into my 2nd slot then couldn't take it out (was just fucking around). Is XP split between them?

Is HP/mana restored fully upon exiting combat?

 

[Modron]

So like, what's the deal with the specialization thing. I put the mage spec into my 2nd slot then couldn't take it out (was just fucking around). Is XP split between them?

XP just goes to your main class, the second class just lets you use whatever spells/abilities you have unlocked for that class. (You do also get some slight xp from whatever other classes are being mained by your companions)

Is HP/mana restored fully upon exiting combat?

Restored over time out of combat, pretty quickly but not instantly.

 

[Yosharian]

So like, what's the deal with the specialization thing. I put the mage spec into my 2nd slot then couldn't take it out (was just fucking around). Is XP split between them?

XP just goes to your main class, the second class just lets you use whatever spells/abilities you have unlocked for that class. (You do also get some slight xp from whatever other classes are being mained by your companions)

Is HP/mana restored fully upon exiting combat?

Restored over time out of combat, pretty quickly but not instantly.

Ah I see. So the racial ability that restores 50% mana when you run empty is just for in-combat use then. Still seems good though? Thinking about a gish-type character for my mc

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Ooh, found an Ability crest in the mine. That answers my question if those are back.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Haven't found any supergood combos quite yet.

-Chisel is a nice support damage class, along with fanger and melder, setting up status effects and damage zones for my melee guys to ping pong enemies around.

-I like the shield bash skill from vanguard since it adds knockback to basic attacks, vs most other knockback moves that have damage penalties. Combine with titan skills for even more synergy.

-pull a larian and blanket the world with damage shit, and hope you catch a few enemies. Kinda works.

-ashen just burns everything, funny that a guy with a lantern hits harder than any of my fighters. The issue I have is it seems ashen synergizes best with itself, which is boring. I like to use lots of classes and weapon types, otherwise in Horizon's Gate I'd just use a whole team of blunderbuss shooters.

Still need to unlock a few classes, curious if greatswords make a return too.

 

[Infinitron]

Eldiran Nice! https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/kingsvein-review

Kingsvein review: monster-splatting RPG goodness that leads with its weak foot​

Things get better the more you open it up

I disliked turn-based RPG Kingsvein at first. Quite a bit, in fact. An earlier version of this review would have been a very negative on, filled mostly with complaints and annoyances about opaque and frustrating systems, most of which I've since got over as the intent behind its design has become more clear.

It could definitely explain some things better, and its inscrutably tiny graphics remain a minor nuisance. But it's grown on me a lot, and though it may not be quite the kind of turn-based RPG I get on with best, it's an enjoyable one with a refreshing lack of bloat and timewasting, and with a class and combat system that will be pure catnip to a particular kind of player.

Plot-wise, there's not much to keep track of. There's trouble in the city of Kingsvein, so a wisp stalker named Chorble is sent to kill the wisps (floaty ghosty tentacly things that like to possess and revive bodies) behind it, and is soon accompanied by their friends Beto, Flampy, and Grondle. You uh, might give them different names.

Image credit: Rock Paper Shotgun/Rad Codex

There's a friendly warrior from afar and some utility NPCs to pitch in, but very limited dialogue, which perhaps limits the plot, but also limits time wasted listening to NPCs fill space for the hell of it. A few semi-secret bits add detail to the world, but mostly this is about finding the next visible target and running up to them to trigger a fight. Or leveling up your dudes in random battles if they're falling short.


By far the most interesting element is the class system, which was initially one of my complaints, as everyone starts out more or less the same, and most of the early options are very limited. Each character has a main class, with experience points for winning battles letting you buy special attacks, abilities from that class's unique list, or unlock passive perks. A third panel grants a special star for every few hundred points earned in a class (total points spent on other abilities still count towards stars), which can be exchanged for permanent buffs like more health, hitting harder with electrical attacks, and so on.

You also get a secondary class for free, which lets you use the abilities you've unlocked in both classes at once. This is significant because gaining XP in a class also unlocks more classes, which you can freely switch around out of combat. But you can only use the abilities of your two active classes (a rare item lets one character hold three or four). In practice this means a lot of leveling sideways. Sticking with one class is viable thanks to those star rewards, but rather than having numbered levels, everyone's defined by whatever abilities you've had them gather. I have an orange spear guy, but you might have him down as orange fire archer, or invisible orange flail wizard.

Image credit: Rock Paper Shotgun/Rad Codex
There are lots more details than that, and its initially opaque class and skill system becomes its strength once you figure out how it works. You can trial and error to some extent too, as unlocking a few skills you never use doesn't render anyone underleveled, and a few side battles will fix that anyway.

This was a source of frustration early on. Several early skills are borderline useless, with most magic attacks having very limited range and being blocked by allies, exacerbated by some unclear descriptions. An archery attack that does 80% damage but has the perk, "Two shots split off backwards", might turn out to be a game changer, but is so niche it's just as likely to sit untouched in your pocket. In particular, many attacks are "delayed", and only kick in at the end of the enemy's turn, meaning they'll nearly always just move out of the way unless you immobilise them in advance with someone else's powers. Chances are, you won't have much access to these powers yet. Delayed healing power, meanwhile, might target a square rather than a character, so your idiot healers fire them at enemies instead.

If you're the kind of player who likes setting up obscure trick shots utilising multiple classes and characters and layered status effects, Kingsvein's combat will be catnip. You might even find it too easy once you learn how to floop the pig.

Me though, I don't mind drinking from the dweeb cup, and Kingsvein won't hold it against you either. There's as much exploration of caves and ruined buildings as combat. This turns up tonnes of loot with a hint of Ultima 6-7 as you meticulously pick things off the floor and put them in your shared bag. Equipment can intensify a character's strengths or round them out, or just give a healer a crossbow option because why not. Weapons work a tiny bit like Wildermyth - swords do more damage, and spears hit two squares in a row (and one ability makes them heal friendlies), but flails can attack diagonally and add more power to the Marshall class's "strike" action, that instructs every friendly who can bash the targeted enemy to do so.

Image credit: Rock Paper Shotgun/Rad Codex
There's basic crafting too, which really comes down to clicking spare weapons into ore or vice versa at a 1:1 return rather than any faffing about with "recipes", and then adding a spike or magical lightning blob to a sword or a protective thing to your armour. There's a minor but pleasant satisfaction to doing this, and it's only an occasional thing rather than a constant sisyphean cycle of adding +1 to everything. Neither crafting or combat are the number crunching sort of game I'd feared, but the tiny graphics make it difficult to tell what a given enemy is capable of, and what little squiggly symbol something is going to upgrade. Bodies take up space on the battlefield, making some fights a real headache until you've got both a team and the personal experience needed to maneouvre and position effectively.

But I did learn those things, despite spurning most classes and only delving knee-deep in its possibilities after finding some mostly effective ones that I enjoyed. Those early frustrations gave way to satisfaction at scraping through a close call, and feeling like I'd won a fight through applying the right skills and plans, and making progress because I'd learned to judge my team's capabilities rather than just make a number go up enough. That's a great spot for any RPG to be in, and if you're less interested in complex or hefty narratives than some chunky tactical combat and tinkering with characters as toolboxes, Kingsvein could be a slightly rough gem.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Pretty much how it feels trying to hit with delayed attacks

 

[TwoEdge]

The AI here is next level. It pushes and pulls my characters to arrange them for a line AoE attack, displaces them to steal my buffed tiles, and even pushes me into my own AoEs. I wish we could get more of this kind of gameplay in modern RPGs.

 

[Yosharian]

The AI here is next level. It pushes and pulls my characters to arrange them for a line AoE attack, displaces them to steal my buffed tiles, and even pushes me into my own AoEs. I wish we could get more of this kind of gameplay in modern RPGs.

*reads this*

*looks at my current strategy*

Shit.

 

[Yosharian]

Haven't found any supergood combos quite yet.

-Chisel is a nice support damage class, along with fanger and melder, setting up status effects and damage zones for my melee guys to ping pong enemies around.

-I like the shield bash skill from vanguard since it adds knockback to basic attacks, vs most other knockback moves that have damage penalties. Combine with titan skills for even more synergy.

-pull a larian and blanket the world with damage shit, and hope you catch a few enemies. Kinda works.

-ashen just burns everything, funny that a guy with a lantern hits harder than any of my fighters. The issue I have is it seems ashen synergizes best with itself, which is boring. I like to use lots of classes and weapon types, otherwise in Horizon's Gate I'd just use a whole team of blunderbuss shooters.

Still need to unlock a few classes, curious if greatswords make a return too.

What difficulty are you playing on?

 

[Grampy_Bone]

What difficulty are you playing on?

Started on vanguard/normal, bumped it up to titan/thoughtful. I noticed the AI seemed to be spreading damage around and not being that effective but now it tries to focus down my guys better.

 

[Yosharian]

I see, I started on Titan/Thoughtful and have found it a bit tricky at times. Now that I've got some healing abilities I'm able to do a bit better though. Not knowing what all the classes do is a little frustrating

 

[Pocgels]

My guys are dying in 2-3 hits on titan/thoughtful, RUIN is gonna be rough

 

[TwoEdge]

So like, what's the deal with the specialization thing. I put the mage spec into my 2nd slot then couldn't take it out (was just fucking around). Is XP split between them?

XP just goes to your main class, the second class just lets you use whatever spells/abilities you have unlocked for that class. (You do also get some slight xp from whatever other classes are being mained by your companions)

Is HP/mana restored fully upon exiting combat?

Restored over time out of combat, pretty quickly but not instantly.

Ah I see. So the racial ability that restores 50% mana when you run empty is just for in-combat use then. Still seems good though? Thinking about a gish-type character for my mc

Dragoon/Mystic with spellstrike is legit. I'd still go for Wisp Slayer, though. They are efficient killers and extra actions are nothing to scoff at. You can use them to restore mana as needed with absorb.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Clear the mine first and make Corpryst weapons, makes a big difference. Use damage fields and delayed spells to restrict enemy movements and control the battlefield.

In the last battle, I used Inferno to prevent the enemy from grabbing damage booster tiles, and used Earthquake to scare off reinforcements for a couple turns. The enemy will generally do anything to avoid AoEs so you can use this to guide them into a killbox.

 

[Modron]

Shieeet, just realized I didn't try to Supplex the last boss Latro would be disappointed in me.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Suplex seems bad, the damage is really low considering how hard it is to get strength boosts. You'd have to use Knight buff + Sanctify, or you could just attack 3 times and probably do more damage. Unless there's a great combo there I'm missing.

 

[TwoEdge]

Suplex seems bad, the damage is really low considering how hard it is to get strength boosts. You'd have to use Knight buff + Sanctify, or you could just attack 3 times and probably do more damage. Unless there's a great combo there I'm missing.

Well, it's +1/rank/strength advantage. Gauntlets also increase your strength, and they stack if you dual-wield, so it seems it's more of a fist weapon kind of deal. I don't have the xp necessary to experiment right now, but it seems it can snowball under the right circumstances.

Edit: Vengeful also gives you +2 under 50% hp.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Yeah but its also opposed by the enemy strength, so it specifically gets nerfed by playing on titan or ruin.

 

[TwoEdge]

I think it's doable on Titan, on Slayer you're definitely correct. Could probably still terrorize enemy mages, but then again it'd be suboptimal for sure. Maybe Eldiran could remove the strength increase from difficulty just for this calculation?

 

[Pocgels]

You'd have to reduce the enemy's strength with stuff like the dog bite first. I've found suplex's utility in swapping positions useful one or two times, but it really is weak when compared to shatter or other abilities you might build around.