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KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

VentilatorOfDoom

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Mrowak said:
You mean there's actually someone somewhere who finished ironman KotC... Wow :shock: (no, not World of Warcraft).
Well, I came to level 11. At that point only my wizard had died once.
Then I lost my savegame because I quit the game without saving, duh!
So the problem was that the game would delete your save as soon as you loaded it and then if you forgot to save when quitting or if the game crashed (happens not often but still) you're fucked. But I know at least one who finished an ironman game. Or at least he said so.

Maybe you're right. It was unplayable or at the very least very unlikely to ever finish the game in ironman mode.

Mrowak said:
Yes, I liked it that it was more useful. Still, later in game whether you had it or not mattered little.
Especially later with dex gloves my party would almost always go first, especially the wizards.
 

visions

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Reject_666_6 said:
But then why should there be a distinction between an actual Lawful Good Fighter that worships some good god and a Paladin? If you're going to even have the class at all, it should be different enough to warrant being a separate class.

The fighter could maybe worship the god, but would not have dedicated his life to serving him (by dedicated, I mean the type of dedication for instance a monk in real world has to his religion) and would not have a divine function in combat(healing, turning undead). His profession in the world would be more secular, which would not mean he couldn't have religious convictions, sort of like most people in the real world who have religious convictions have secular, rather than ecclesiastic proffessions. Paladin could be a fighter in a religious order, but this doen't have to mean that every paladin should be some kind of renowned champion of light.

A level 1 lawful good fighter serving a good god could for example be a guard in a king's court, who worships a good god, but whose place in society would be more defined by his secular, rather than religious allegiance, whereas a level 1 paladin could be a low ranking member in a religious order, whose place in society would be strongly defined by his religious allegiance.

Basically, what I'm trying to say here is that I don't see the idea of a typical D&D 3.5 lvl 1 paladin as anything problematic or nonsensical.

Jim Cojones said:
Even if you don't like the official campaign, a module editor is promised to come with the game, so maybe user made content will suit your tastes better. :D

Speaking of which, I hope there will be some degree of customisation of what rules would you want to use in your module. Pierre feels like it's easier for him to balance the campaign for a four character party? I'm OK with that but I'd also like to see adventures created by the others which would allow you to create six or even eight characters groups. He didn't feel eavesdropping outside the door was a meaningful addition to the gameplay? Well, I believe it wasn't a great mechanic on its own but it served well combined with other means of influencing your starting position in combat. Wouldn't mind using it in my own module.

I didn't mean that I didn't like KOTC, just some minor criticisms. Also thought that the eavesdropping function was cool.
 

catfood

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abnaxus said:
Mackerel said:
Havoc said:
There was a Death Knight in DnD? Too much WoW? :/
History lesson:
30569813.jpg
In BG2 in the Underdark, you can summon and fight 4 of these chumps on Demogorgon's altar.

They were called cambions or something. Not sure if it's the same thing. :dndnerd:
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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catfood said:
They were called cambions or something. Not sure if it's the same thing. :dndnerd:
No, they were called Death Knights. Another Death Knight appeared in Durlags Tower in BG1. And no, it's not the same thing like a Cambion, but those appeared too in IE games.
 

Damned Registrations

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[quote="visions ]
a level 1 paladin could be a low ranking member in a religious order, whose place in society would be strongly defined by his religious allegiance.
[/quote]

See, the problem with this is it doesn't make sense for a religious order to heavily arm their low ranking members. Low ranking members are low ranking because they're untrustworthy, you don't give them a fucking sword and armor and have them enforce justice on the world. You don't grant them authority to speak on behalf of your order. And a paladin who isn't recognized as a paladin doesn't make any sense. They'd go around with emblems on their gear, waving flags and proclaiming shit in the name of the holy spaghetti monster. They're bound by their honor to openly oppose any injustice they see. They can't do that if they don't have a set of laws to follow, laws that likely include not being a fucking vigilante.

wikipedia said:
The paladins, sometimes known as the Twelve Peers, were the foremost warriors of Charlemagne's court, according to the literary cycle known as the Matter of France.

As in, not dirty peasants who've never done anything of note.
 

GarfunkeL

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Level 1 paladin has just graduated from Tyr's Paladin Academy. What's the problem? I can live with that abstraction.

Unless you are advocating to only have two or three basic classes and everything else as prestige classes - fighter, rogue, wizard and you can only advanced to certain level before you have to start adding prestige classes on top. Would be nice variety but not going to happen in KotC2 since Pierre is using OGL and DnD'esque system.
 

asper

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How is it possible that the Eschalon dev was able to quit his job and even pay some people to do music/graphics for him, while the KOTC guy is still trucking on part time?

Anyeway all I want from part 2 is more of the same and a more readable font.
 

quasimodo

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asper said:
How is it possible that the Eschalon dev was able to quit his job and even pay some people to do music/graphics for him, while the KOTC guy is still trucking on part time?

Anyeway all I want from part 2 is more of the same and a more readable font.


Eschalon I & II are pretty polished compared to other indies. I'll certainly buy Escalon III. I do wish that both Reigsecker(Eschalon) and Vogel would do combat half as good KotC.
 

asper

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Project: Eternity
RPG DEVELOPMENT DREAM TEAM: Riegsecker (graphics), Vogel (C&C), KOTC guy (combat).

!?!?!?!?? my head exploded
 

Hobo Elf

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OuterSpace said:
he's using a true top down perspective this time.

This thread has the least trolls per post out of anything in GRPGD for a while. Must be a real RPG or something.

:yeah:

asper said:
RPG DEVELOPMENT DREAM TEAM: Riegsecker (graphics), Vogel (C&C), KOTC guy (combat).

!?!?!?!?? my head exploded

Add in the guy (girl?) responsible for Eschalon's music and it would be a fine, fine game. :salute:
 

Calem Ravenna

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With all those new classes I hope there will be more than 4 characters this time around, or at least the ability to have larger parties in fan made modules (if that is implemented).
 

visions

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DamnedRegistrations said:
See, the problem with this is it doesn't make sense for a religious order to heavily arm their low ranking members. Low ranking members are low ranking because they're untrustworthy, you don't give them a fucking sword and armor and have them enforce justice on the world.

Why should the order provide them their arms and armour? They might come from wealthy families and have to purchase/acquire the equipment on their own, like the medieval knights did. If you can't afford the arms and armour, then you can't serve the order's militant arm.

You don't grant them authority to speak on behalf of your order.

A dude in blue uniform who has completed the required training has been granted the authority to enforce the laws of the state irl (within certain parameters). A dude in chainmail armour who has completed the required training could be granted the authority to enforce the will of a religious order in generic fantasyland (within certain parameters).

They'd go around with emblems on their gear, waving flags and proclaiming shit in the name of the holy spaghetti monster.

Why should every paladin act like a caricature? Again, why couldn't they just be members of a militant arm of a religious order, who don't engage in antics like waving flags and running around proclaiming "I smite thee villain in the name of Blarghablabla"?

wikipedia said:
The paladins, sometimes known as the Twelve Peers, were the foremost warriors of Charlemagne's court, according to the literary cycle known as the Matter of France.

Irrelevant. The magic in fantasy settings has little in common with how magic was (or is, by those who practice what could be termed magic in modern times) believed to work in the real world, fantasy dwarfs don't have a whole lot in common with the dwarfs from myths and folklore, fantasy zombies are not that similar to zombies in voodoo and so on and so forth.

If the terms used in fantasy settings would not be allowed to deviate from their real world origins, pretty much every fantasy setting should stop using them or be completely rewritten.

Also, you seem to think that a level 1 character in D&D terms would be a "dirty peasant who has never done anything of note", whereas actually in order for someone to reach level 2, he would already have to be quite an accomplished figure by any non-absurd standards (if we're going to care about verisimilitude in the first place. If no, then this entire discussion is quite pointless. Hell, eitherway this discussion seems quite pointless).
 

Tycn

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Tiavals wrote:what is Death Knight?

Basically a high-BAB warrior with smite (any alignment), sneak attack and a few other goodies.

Tiavals wrote:I thought you weren't doing Rogue

Rogue is just a politically-correct name for the Assassin.
VentilatorOfDoom wrote:do you plan to include potions?

Yes, at least the potions of cure light/moderate/serious/critical, heroism and haste.

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:Rogues, what about them?

They will have sneak attacks, movement through enemies and arcane spells.

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:Sorcerer? Can you reveal some specifics? Does he function like a wizard except with access to arcane and divine spells? Sounds p. overpowered

Yes. We can discuss the balance later on.

DonaldDuck wrote:have you settled on a graphic style/prospective yet?

The graphic style is top-down 2D.
http://www.heroicfantasygames.com/Forum ... 2901#p2901

Will be interesting to see how the 'assassin' works out.

Didn't mind the viewpoint in KotC either, it was uncomfortable for a whole 5 minutes and allows for more detail than straight top-down.
 

PorkaMorka

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I'm a bit skeptical, he is apparently scrapping the awesome graphics and going for some sort of high res, top down, non animated graphics.

I'll have to wait for screenshots before I can get my hopes up.
 

zeitgeist

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PorkaMorka said:
I'm a bit skeptical, he is apparently scrapping the awesome graphics and going for some sort of high res, top down, non animated graphics.

I'll have to wait for screenshots before I can get my hopes up.
Wait, why would he be doing that? Apart from the horrible smoothed font, and completely out-of-place lighting and spell effects (which really should've been done with dithering/checkerboard masks or something), the game (well, actually the tileset and sprites I guess) looked pretty decent.
 

Malakal

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VentilatorOfDoom said:
catfood said:
They were called cambions or something. Not sure if it's the same thing. :dndnerd:
No, they were called Death Knights. Another Death Knight appeared in Durlags Tower in BG1. And no, it's not the same thing like a Cambion, but those appeared too in IE games.

Werent those DEMON knights? Like in fiends clad in full plate? Cause they didnt have any of the skills mentioned in the death knights description.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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Malakal said:
VentilatorOfDoom said:
catfood said:
They were called cambions or something. Not sure if it's the same thing. :dndnerd:
No, they were called Death Knights. Another Death Knight appeared in Durlags Tower in BG1. And no, it's not the same thing like a Cambion, but those appeared too in IE games.

Werent those DEMON knights? Like in fiends clad in full plate? Cause they didnt have any of the skills mentioned in the death knights description.

Now that you say it, maybe they were demon knights. But they fireballed/sunfired a lot iirc.

Also, in KotC2 Death Knights will be:
Basically a high-BAB warrior with smite (any alignment), sneak attack and a few other goodies.
 

OuterSpace

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I like it. It's only the map editor, but I suppose it gives an impression.

I guess that's the aesthetic he is going for; but that was posted almost a year ago. Its risky from an animatipn standpoint. it will have to look pretty realistic or else it will look awkward.
 

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