Baldur's Gate Larian is moving away from D&D, no BG3 DLC or BG4

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Great news for people who hated BG3, but walking away from an established IP with ~40 years worth of lore behind it is a huge mistake in the long run, just as it was for Bioware when they passed on making KotOR II in favor of Jade Empire and what followed. "We'll make our own IPs with blackjack and hookers!" is pie in the sky for most companies especially when generic fantasy/ sci-fi IPs are a dime a dozen these days. Wasn't even possible to whore out Dragon Age enough to secure a permanent place in the pop-culture and that was during the post-LotR fantasy drought of the late oughts. GFL in current year.

Here’s the difference between the two things you’re talking about: Larian Studios was already big before Baldur's Gate 3, BioWare was not big before Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. Larian built a large audience all on their own before Baldur’s Gate 3 ever came out, and moved somewhere in the range of 7 million units of Divinity: Original Sin 2. Larian was already on an upward path all on their own just like FromSoftware was going into Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice.

I also wonder how much Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro even see much of a future for D&D games like Baldur's Gate 3. They outlined the future of tabletop D&D in that One D&D video a couple years ago, and it was pretty clear watching that video that the future of “tabletop” D&D is a closed system video game. I’m not sure Wizards of the Coast is going to even want something like Baldur’s Gate 3 competing with their “tabletop” video game, and I’m thinking future games like Baldur’s Gate will be something you buy within the D&D Digital thing they’re doing.

BioWare’s big mistake with Jade Empire was probably more gameplay related than setting. They sold a couple million copies of KotOR before Jade Empire released, people that played that we’re probably expecting something that played more in line with KotOR, what they got was an action game that played like shit (which came out in the middle of games like Def Jam: Fight for NY, Yakuza, Urban Reign, Bully, Shadow of Rome...among others) and maybe the worst shoot ‘em up game ever made. I’d guess a lot of people interested in BioWare’s next game after KotOR rented Jade Empire and after playing it didn’t care much to actually own it.

this and the other 10 post this amigo made on the same page was a really good psuedo-history read, you have to put aside your sense of self and wanting to object to truly ride along with the author on his exploratory 'what if?' in a world kotor established the bioware name and jade empire was panned because of bad timing with def jam and bully. I wish he took it a step further though with every one attempting to make kotor clones and maybe made bully 3 to be a parallel witcher 3 in his world

BioWare did make their name with Knights of the Old Republic. The PC gaming RPG crowd knew them because of Baldur’s Gate, I’m sure most everyone that’s here on this site that’s over the age of like 35 (let’s say 30) knows them because of Baldur’s Gate, (either of them) but relatively few people played their Baldur’s Gate games in comparison to their Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic game back then. Baldur’s Gate may have been big for a CRPG, but CRPGs were niche in the larger gaming landscape; KotOR was their breakthrough game.

I didn’t even kind of say Jade Empire was panned because of those other games. I said people were expecting Jade Empire to be Knight of the Old Republic with a different coat of paint, and what they got was a shit action game. I didn’t even saw Jade Empire was panned, from what I remember it reviewed well, but the game did not sell what KotOR did before it despite a larger new audience that was eagerly awaiting the next BioWare game.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I didn’t even saw Jade Empire was panned, from what I remember it reviewed well, but the game did not sell what KotOR did before it despite a larger new audience that was eagerly awaiting the next BioWare game.

I think that the setting played a large part in its underselling. Even if stuff like HK movies were somewhat popular back then, I doubt that this would've translated into a broad interest for a CRPG set in a homebrewed wuxia setting. Exotic settings have their appeal, but *too* exotic ones can have the opposite effect and even alienate people who otherwise would've been a natural part of the intended audience for the game.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

As much fondness as we might possess for determinedly unconventional settings such as Morrowind and Planescape, the reality of the gaming market is that such settings will always result in substantially lower sales than a conventional late-medieval/Renaissance pseudo-Europe setting. Even simply transplanting the geographical basis to a Chinese 'Wuxia' setting is sufficient to greatly reduce interest in a game among the general CRPG audience.

 

[REhorror]

I was right all along and all the BearGay 3 hype is all bots and shills.

Strong cope, BG3 sold 15+ million copies and is the most successful CRPG in history.

Even the BG3 subreddit has 2+ million subs. Meanwhile we have a few old neckeards crying and coping here on codex about muh beargay 3.

It's all bots and shills to promote homo bear sex.

 

[Dwarvophile]

DnD's cohesive lore

Lol
Lmao even

I know

But with DOS 1&2 the tone was really all over the place, and you would go from terror evocations to a talking wishing well making jokes about cheese in a second. They blend all the meanings of "fantasy" in the same world.

I'm not a fan of the heroic fantasy meets monty python's flying circus. Or at least you just stay on this one tonality like with the Dungeon of Naheulbeuk for instance.

It's the same with D&D rulesets, which is not perfect but did put boundaries on Larian's eccentricity, when it can indiscriminately produce the best & the worse (like in DOS2, the armor system or the stupid itemization).

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

But with DOS 1&2 the tone was really all over the place, and you would go from terror evocations to a talking wishing well making jokes about cheese in a second. They blend all the meanings of "fantasy" in the same world.

I'm not a fan of the heroic fantasy meets monty python's flying circus

Honestly divinity was always like that. Divinity 2 you watch a woman being offended because some mercenaries found her name - Fanny - funny, thenhelp a man obsessed with pigs to recover his herd then the entire place gets Zyklon B'd.

 

[Roguey]

Yes. Arcanum's ruleset might be unbalanced as fuck, but it's fun. So many different things to invest your character points in, and so many different character types to play - even more than Fallout.

So many builds, not a one of them fun to play. Melee fighter? Nope. Spellcaster? Nope. Gunslinger? Nope. Techbuilder? Nope. Thief? Nope. Diplomat? Nope.

It's a hypothetical great game where the reality is crushing disappointment.

 

[MjKorz]

Yes. Arcanum's ruleset might be unbalanced as fuck, but it's fun. So many different things to invest your character points in, and so many different character types to play - even more than Fallout.

So many builds, not a one of them fun to play. Melee fighter? Nope. Spellcaster? Nope. Gunslinger? Nope. Techbuilder? Nope. Thief? Nope. Diplomat? Nope.

It's a hypothetical great game where the reality is crushing disappointment.

I played gunslinger and had nothing but fun with my elephant gun. No homo.

 

[Aarwolf]

So many builds, not a one of them fun to play.

I had fun.

 

[JarlFrank]

Yes. Arcanum's ruleset might be unbalanced as fuck, but it's fun. So many different things to invest your character points in, and so many different character types to play - even more than Fallout.

So many builds, not a one of them fun to play. Melee fighter? Nope. Spellcaster? Nope. Gunslinger? Nope. Techbuilder? Nope. Thief? Nope. Diplomat? Nope.

It's a hypothetical great game where the reality is crushing disappointment.

All of these character builds are fun to play. Arcanum is an improvement on Fallout in every way.

 

[Arbiter]

All of these character builds are fun to play. Arcanum is an improvement on Fallout in every way.

It is way buggier than Fallout, has even less balanced character system and worse graphics in spite of being released 4 years later. Steampunk vs retrofuturistic setting is a matter of taste, but I prefer the latter.

 

[Haplo]

Yes. Arcanum's ruleset might be unbalanced as fuck, but it's fun. So many different things to invest your character points in, and so many different character types to play - even more than Fallout.

So many builds, not a one of them fun to play. Melee fighter? Nope. Spellcaster? Nope. Gunslinger? Nope. Techbuilder? Nope. Thief? Nope. Diplomat? Nope.

It's a hypothetical great game where the reality is crushing disappointment.

They may be fun to a degree, but then combat starts and it all falls apart...

 

[JarlFrank]

As if Fallout's combat

Yes. Arcanum's ruleset might be unbalanced as fuck, but it's fun. So many different things to invest your character points in, and so many different character types to play - even more than Fallout.

So many builds, not a one of them fun to play. Melee fighter? Nope. Spellcaster? Nope. Gunslinger? Nope. Techbuilder? Nope. Thief? Nope. Diplomat? Nope.

It's a hypothetical great game where the reality is crushing disappointment.

They may be fun to a degree, but then combat starts and it all falls apart...

Arcanum's combat isn't worse than Fallout's. What's worse is the encounter design, consisting mostly of copypasted trash mobs, which isn't fun in any combat system. But at least Arcanum's combat is fast - way faster than Fallout's, where starting a fight in a city can be excruciatingly slow due to the beggars walking so slowly during their turns.

People always say "Arcanum's combat sucks" but fail to understand why. The system is fine. It's better than Fallout's, even - there are more options for the player, companions are more useful, different weapons have more distinct differences than in Fallout, etc. The only thing Fallout does better is audiovisual feedback of your hits, but that's about it. Arcanum's only problem is bad encounter design. Its systems are completely fine.

 

[Haplo]

= way less fun

 

[Harthwain]

Arcanum's combat isn't worse than Fallout's. What's worse is the encounter design, consisting mostly of copypasted trash mobs, which isn't fun in any combat system. But at least Arcanum's combat is fast - way faster than Fallout's, where starting a fight in a city can be excruciatingly slow due to the beggars walking so slowly during their turns.

I never had any issues with Fallout. Arcanum, however... The controls alone are way more messy than they ought to be. Even something as simple as leaving the inventory screen was a mystery to me, and I was a seasoned cRPG player by that point. Combat, too, has its share of problems (such as stamina). It can be fun, once you get the hang of it, but it certainly could benefit from QoL improvements.

 

[JarlFrank]

Arcanum was maybe the third or fourth CRPG I ever played, it was a pirated copy without a manual, I wasn't even fluent in English yet, but still had zero problems with its interface.

 

[Harthwain]

Arcanum was maybe the third or fourth CRPG I ever played, it was a pirated copy without a manual, I wasn't even fluent in English yet, but still had zero problems with its interface.

So? It doesn't invalidate my experience nor my points. Proclaiming Arcanum as the BETTER system than Fallout is simply insane. I could agree it may be more INTERESTING system, but NOT better. And if there was an improvement in any area, it certainly wasn't in the realm of the UI or combat.

 

[JarlFrank]

Arcanum is the #1 best CRPG ever made. Nothing else even comes close.

 

[Harthwain]

Arcanum is the #1 best CRPG ever made. Nothing else even comes close.

I voted for Arcanum myself in my top 10 list of Codex's best RPGs, so I can understand the sentiment. That said, I wouldn't defend glaring flaws, even when it comes to a game I like (I routinely trash Planescape: Torment for its shitty combat, for example).

 

[Swen]

Arcanum is the #1 best CRPG ever made. Nothing else even comes close.

Combat was garbage so it can never be #1

 

[S.torch]

But with DOS 1&2 the tone was really all over the place

DnD products aren't any better.

 

[Dwarvophile]

But with DOS 1&2 the tone was really all over the place

DnD products aren't any better.

Which one ?

 

[KeAShizuku]

Nobody buys Larian games for the story.

Bioware on the other hand was defined by it.

 

[Arbiter]

Nobody buys Larian games for the story.

Agree.

Bioware on the other hand was defined by it.

BioWare recycled the same story line after BG series over and over again: ancient evil returning to destroy the world, occasionally with a good chick falling to the dark side.

 

[KeAShizuku]

I was right all along and all the BearGay 3 hype is all bots and shills.

Strong cope, BG3 sold 15+ million copies and is the most successful CRPG in history.

Even the BG3 subreddit has 2+ million subs. Meanwhile we have a few old neckeards crying and coping here on codex about muh beargay 3.

Have you seen the subreddit?

Its cosplayers, waifu fags and queers. It makes Persona fandom look sane!