Company News Larian opens new office in Quebec, has two new RPGs in development based on the Original Sin engine

[DarkUnderlord]

What is it with the doom and gloom? Sven knows that to remain independent he has to grow his company and I think it is great. By growing his business not only will we get more quality games but he will have the means to take some "risks" (non fantasy settings) and probably be successful.

Sure, just like Interplay, every studio that's ever been bought by EA and CD Projekt! Computer game developers have a horrible track record of being shite business managers. They have one moderate success and then grow too big, too fast.

Also, read the blog post:

Since you have to make mistakes if you want to be creative and you can’t help falling sick, there’s unfortunately only a few options: You can iterate less(bad idea), you can reduce scope significantly(bad idea for a RPG) or you can increase team size¹, with a focus on increasing redundancy and removing bottlenecks from your development process.

Luckily we can now take that last option and so we’ve been increasing headcount. There were 42 of us when we finished D:OS, there’s 53 of us now and the number is set to increase throughout 2015.

One of the cool things we’re doing to boost our team size is setting up a new office in Quebec City.

It’s a lot of growth for a small independent developer from Gent, Belgium and I’m quite apprehensive of the dangers that brings. However, the commercial success of D:OS has given us an opportunity to make true some of our bigger RPG ambitions and I’ll be damned if we don’t seize that chance. Going all in paid off in the past so we might as well try again.

[...]

Fixing things is not all we’re doing however, far from it. We’re not hiring all those people just to transform D:OS in a better experience, no, obviously we’re also working on our new RPGs.

So one of the cool things a small indie studio is doing is going all in and expanding with a new office in an entirely different country because there's nothing better than splitting your development teams across multiple continents to reduce mistakes...

tl;dr: Larian are setting up an entirely separate second team to work on another game relatively independently and they're spending all their money to do it. Because that's the only way that works.

Cheaper and better option: Just work on two games with the current team and take longer to do them. You can easily shuffle people between projects as required. Avoid the mass expenditure of setting up in a whole new country and the fact that you now have two separate teams who now can't work together effectively. You're going to end up with two different offices, with two different cultures, one of which is an all new team without any prior experience working "the Larian way", with people who will need training. And oh yeah, all of this needs to be managed too. Meaning someone's job will be not working on the game, but just managing the teams. That again, is a different skillset to just making a game.

¹Yes, he missed out the obvious "or you can just take more time and release later". Which incidentally, costs less money than hiring an entire new team of people and opening a new office on a different continent.

 

[DefJam101]

Well, this sounds like a terrible idea.

 

[Invictus]

Uh guys not to sound condecending but that is the way business works; I just had a meeting yesterday with my team and we decided that we were going to expand our teams by creating moreworking cells by promoting a current PM into a supervisor and so forth. You dilute the efficiency of a working team while its new members learn the ropes, and the second "new" team gets experience.
In this case sounds to me that most of the engine devlopment and business side would still be done by Sven 's team while game implementación and devlopment would take place in quebec. Sure there will be some growing pains but it wouldwork pretty much the same as InXile has been doing with W2 and Torment where one team was in full game devlopment while the other was deveoping the game story, concepts and setting

 

[undecaf]

Seems like a ballsy move to expand already after one success that, if I remember correctly, was an "all in" for them, but thumbs up for Sven'n co. I look forward to what it is they are cooking (hopefully something else than fantasy).

 

[Haba]

Larian is at the uncomfortable position of being too large to remain indie and too small to do it big. They won't be able to sustain themselves unless they expand and diversify. "Hurr durr, just work on a single game longer" isn't gonna cut it if you do the math. Either you scale down (i.e. kick people out after project ships) or you take risks and hope that'll bring in more funding.

One huge potential for Larian would be that the new people they bring in would also bring in a different writing and world-building without the Divinity baggage. Something on the level of Cyanide's Game of Thrones, for example. That's the kind of risk I'd take if I was Swen. A fresh setting with a good stories to tell, while the core systems come from Larian's main team.

I'd much rather see them make one great game and (die trying) than see them remake the same game over and over again ad nauseam (hi Spiderweb software!)

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Larian is at the uncomfortable position of being too large to remain indie and too small to do it big. They won't be able to sustain themselves unless they expand and diversify.

That makes absolutely no sense. Yes. They should diversify and move into the Sim market. Or maybe real estate? Hey, maybe they could try the K-Pop music business?

That word doesn't mean what you think it means. As long as Larian are still making PC-based RPGs, then there's no diversification there.

Expand, by all means. But that means hire a few more people (keeping in mind they're already 50+). A whole new team on a whole new continent makes no sense. Not even if you factor in tax benefits. Because if one of their next games is not the huge success like D:OS (I'm not even saying failure here, I'm just saying "not as hugely successful"), they'll have to shut-down an entire team. They can't scale that back easily, they'd just end up with most of their crew in one place and a handful of people uselessly somewhere else.

And Managers spending money flying between the two (trust me when I say "online meetings" aren't all they're cracked up to be).

The only reason they can "sustain" this is because of D:OS. They don't get the next big payday until their next game is out. Now they're working on two super big awesome RPGs because "noble design goals". And we all know what happens when you run out of money for one of those... They're effectively relying on that upcoming KickStarter like they did with D:OS. And their D:OS KickStarter wasn't hugely successful either. Not in the "sustaining two teams of 80+ people across two continents" style.

And even then, Larian blames lack of funding for the issues in D:OS. Because someone took a sick day and they couldn't wait apparently.

"Hurr durr, just work on a single game longer" isn't gonna cut it if you do the math. Either you scale down (i.e. kick people out after project ships) or you take risks and hope that'll bring in more funding.

Again with the not making sense. What math are we doing here? The only reason they can afford expansion in the first place is because of the success of D:OS. They don't need to scale down anything. If they can afford to expand to a whole new continent, then they can as sure as fuck afford to keep their existing team. Expanding with a whole new team doesn't get them some new magic money.

One huge potential for Larian would be that the new people they bring in would also bring in a different writing and world-building without the Divinity baggage. Something on the level of Cyanide's Game of Thrones, for example. That's the kind of risk I'd take if I was Swen. A fresh setting with a good stories to tell, while the core systems come from Larian's main team.

And they need a whole new team to achieve this? Incidentally, when did Divinity (their most successful series) become "baggage"?

I'd much rather see them make one great game and (die trying) than see them remake the same game over and over again ad nauseam (hi Spiderweb software!)

So instead they get to die trying to make two.

And incidentally, when did a big team ever make an interesting new and innovative game anyway? Blizzard have the biggest team there is and the best they can do is pump out WoW expansions with pandas. While Call of Duty just ends up with less actual game and more "cinematic" cut-scenes.

 

[Haba]

Come on man, use some common sense here. Or let's say, basic business sense.

For example:
- limited local talent pool
- limited funding options
- taxation and local legistlation

Just forget that we're talking about a gaming company here for a moment and think of it as a normal business for a moment.

There is a reason why we've seen many, many studios do the very same thing as Larian is doing. Yes, great many of them have failed. Most businesses do fail. Especially game businesses since most game designers are piss-poor managers.

I'm not denying that it is a risk, but that's what business is all about.

Larian doesn't have the luxury of working on a single game for four to five years, very few studios do. Like I said, they could do it if they cut down costs and focused. But if you were the company owner and manager of those people, maybe you wouldn't want to kick the young developers with families out? Swen seems like a softie like that. But having managed to keep the company afloat for such a long time, I doubt he is as business-illiterate as you folk seem to think.

It's a gamble that I see every day in "the working life". Sometimes you lose big, sometimes that risky investment turns out to be the thing that keeps your corporation afloat when all the other markets are in depression.

If I were to start making games, I too would take the VD route and do it with a small crew and as few compromises as possible. But that's because I'm a hobbyist. Larian are doing it for living, so they have to consider different paths. All we can do is to hope that they avoid the mistakes that most companies make.

 

[Darth Roxor]

You have to remember Larian have much less financial problems than most small studios out there because they are getting major subsidies from the Belgian gubmint.

 

[Davaris]

If I was Swen I would take the D:OS profits and run. In 5 years he could be worth a 100 million or he could be flat broke. With what he made on D:OS, he could support himself indefinitely and make anything he likes at the Indie level.

 

[Infinitron]

Before this they made Dragon Commander and Original Sin in one studio. Dragon Commander was kinda meh.

WIth two studios, they can make two games that are actually good, and that both sell well.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Come on man, use some common sense here. Or let's say, basic business sense.

Basic business sense would suggest Larian are financially better off making Call of Duty sequels or selling out to EA. RPGs are a shite business to be in if you're a business man.

For example:
- limited local talent pool

Belgium isn't exactly isolated. It's in Europe. Most Belgiums speak French and German (hence I guess, Quebec). It's not like there's a shortage of programmers in Europe.

- limited funding options

Funding for any business is difficult, computer games even more-so, and RPGs especially. Hence that whole KickStarter thing. Most of the time your only chance for money is from taking the risk and developing a successful game on a limited budget, then using the money to make a sequel - not selling your IP to someone else or giving someone who doesn't understand the games industry financial control (someone who then wants more cutscenes and real-time action because they don't understand the industry).

Even so, what additional funding do you believe Larian will get from splitting their team...

- taxation and local legistlation

... especially when Darth Roxor already says they're getting "major subsidies from the Belgian gubmint".

Just forget that we're talking about a gaming company here for a moment and think of it as a normal business for a moment.

There is a reason why we've seen many, many studios do the very same thing as Larian is doing. Yes, great many of them have failed. Most businesses do fail. Especially game businesses since most game designers are piss-poor managers.

This right here is the problem. Why do you get into the game industry? To make games, or to get into the fun world of business management?

And if they're a normal business, producing competing products (which is what they're doing with two D:OS engine based RPGs) isn't a great idea.

Besides, they did "diversify". Dragon Commander anyone? A good business sticks to what it does well.

Larian doesn't have the luxury of working on a single game for four to five years, very few studios do.

I don't think anyone's saying they should. 2 - 3 years should be ample, and the reality is even if you had 600 people, you're not going to put that game out any faster. Not in any good shape anyway. Some of this stuff just takes time because it's built on each idea that comes before it (be that an engine feature or another quest). To make it coherent - especially for an RPG - you need to spend time. Not more people.

Besides, how long has Blizzard spent on Starcraft 2? And how big is the team now?

Bigger team != faster development. Nor does it even guarantee a better game.

Like I said, they could do it if they cut down costs and focused.

Cut down? Why do you keep holding onto this belief that Larian's choice is either:

a) Move into Quebec.

b) Cut-down.

??? Why would they need to cut-down? The only reason they have enough money to move into Quebec is because of the success of D:OS. Not moving into Quebec doesn't suddenly "undo" that success.

It's a gamble that I see every day in "the working life". Sometimes you lose big, sometimes that risky investment turns out to be the thing that keeps your corporation afloat when all the other markets are in depression.

Yes, Larian will fight off a depression in the niche RPG market by having another RPG dev team so they can release more RPGs into it faster!

If I were to start making games, I too would take the VD route and do it with a small crew and as few compromises as possible. But that's because I'm a hobbyist. Larian are doing it for living, so they have to consider different paths. All we can do is to hope that they avoid the mistakes that most companies make.

Yeah, mistakes like growing too fast too quickly. Hell not even Farmville survived that one. And it's a story repeated all over the "normal" business world. Rapid growth and expansion is one of the most expensive and riskiest things you can do.

And you guys do remember Interplay, right?

You have to remember Larian have much less financial problems than most small studios out there because they are getting major subsidies from the Belgian gubmint.

So now they expand to a country outside of Belgium and this is supposed to help them how... exactly?

 

[GloomFrost]

Opening another studio sounds risky but if they are so confident then fine. larian are bigger and a lot more experienced then most of indie developers.
P.S. please punch in the face then kick the hell out a guy who thought of "paper, scissors, stone" system in dialogues.

 

[Haba]

Even so, what additional funding do you believe Larian will get from splitting their team...

I can't go into too much detail since I must pretend to be actually working, but I can hazard that there are incentives for that specific country and city. Most probably in areas where Larian already has expertise. Also there is a world of difference in having an office in Northern USA than in some European country whose name you don't even know.

Would be interesting to hear what kind of thinking Larian has backing that move, and what kind of players are acting behind the scenes.

 

[naossano]

It is indeed relieving that writting is not "a battle they don't want to pick".

 

[Snozgobler]

While I understand DarkUnderlord's concerns, since watching the recent unboxing videos I find my self reading his posts in his Australian accent and as a result have difficulty viewing them with an appropriate level of gravity

Spoiler

:australia:

I won't be a backseat driver for Larian so I'll just say this: if they are willing to risk their money, then I wish them well and hope they continue to make enjoyable games.

 

[set]

Any chances of a waifu simulator in the D:OS engine?

Uh, dragon commander?

Also, how moddable is dos? I'd be surprised if there weren't already a waifu mod for it.

 

[DeepOcean]

Well when they said they would do a strategy game AND an isometric RPG with only one team, I already thought they were crazy but now that they have some decent cash flow from D:OS now things don't seem so terrible, besides... remember that article that Swen said he changed idea on kickstarter? Well, if InExile can make two RPGs at same time, why Larian that seems to have alot more money now and reputation can't?

 

[clemens]

Belgium isn't exactly isolated. It's in Europe. Most Belgiums speak French and German (hence I guess, Quebec). It's not like there's a shortage of programmers in Europe.

The majority of Belgians speak Dutch. Less than half of all Belgians speak French. A very small number of Belgians (80.000) speak German. The Belgian government doesn't grant *major funds* to Larian. Qualified work is extremely expensive in Belgium.

Being in this business for 15+ years and surviving in the worst possible context (indie rpg studio in fucking Belgium), Swen probably knows what he is doing. Everybody else is just talking from their asses. Go Swen.

 

[CrimsonAngel]

If this work and they are smart this could be good. Like say a staggered release.

One company makes the big "NEW GAME" and the ohter one makes maybe a expansion pack. That way they could have a solid cash flow while still being active enough that they can develop what they want.

 

[Athelas]

For reference, I looked up a previous games business related prediction that DarkUnderlord made: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ck-of-truth-delayed.77663/page-3#post-2354932

 

[;]

From their jobs page http://larian.com/jobs.php

Larian Studios is looking for skilled 3D artists to work on future RPG Projects. We are looking for Character Artists, Environment Artists and Level Designers to reinforce the Larian Quebec office.

.
.
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A strong interest in Medieval/fantasy/steampunk characters and environments

 

[A horse of course]

steampunk characters and environments

 

[Darth Roxor]

^ It's been p. much a staple of the series since Divinity 2, though.

 

[Space Satan]

Canada is infected by Bioware. Stay aware and aim for the head.

 

[Infinitron]

Canada is infected by Bioware. Stay aware and aim for the head.

The CEO of a certain Iron Tower Studio also resides in Canada