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Game News Legend of Grimrock 2 is in alpha

Trojan_generic

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Dunno why people hate Early Access. No one forces you to buy anything. I'd definitely buy this because I have confidence in them to deliver something at least as entertaining as the first game.

Because kids and unemployed morons who have all the time in the world get their *BAD* opinions voiced through much better than me. They have in fact so much time that they screw up all the potentially good games. This is just a theory because I don't really give a shit. In general, I let others do the alpha-beta playtesting because I never have the time.
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
492
I also had fun with Grimrock 1... at least until I fully figured out that the only thing making me better than the enemies was that I am better at playing Dance Dance Revolution.

That somehow made all the character progress obsolete. Which is more or less all that such a game consists of (that and the mild exploration & puzzle factor).


I would say that exploration & puzzles are what Grimrock consist of. Combat (and by extension character building) is an interlude between puzzles.


If they can finally recapture all the great parts of Dungeon Master, including combat i'll look forward to this. Otherwise... good luck anyways.


DM is one of my favorite game of all time. But, honestly: combat in that game sucks as much as in Grimrock, and the same goes for Eye of the Beholder and Lands of Lore. This whole sub-genre has never really been about combat.
 

thesheeep

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I really can't agree.
For me, those have always been for the most part about combat.

Except LoL, which definitely had some very interesting places to explore (especially part 3, but that may be nostalgia speaking).
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
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I really can't agree.
For me, those have always been for the most part about combat.

Except LoL, which definitely had some very interesting places to explore (especially part 3, but that may be nostalgia speaking).

To me the main difference between these family and the other family of bloobers (the tun based ones) lies in the different focus: Dungeon Master and co. are focused on exploration and puzzle solving, Wizardry an co. on combat and character building. Playing Dungeon Master, in a certain sense, is like playing Zelda.
 

Cowboy Moment

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Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
Actually, that's one game that would benefit a lot from Early Access. I loved the long forgotten atmosphere of DM, the puzzles, the exploration, and even the combat, but the character system was very weak, ill-conceived, and poorly balanced. The EA could have fixed it in no time.

Don't think so. EA doesn't fix shit, only good developers can fix anything.
EA provides feedback on a scale that no internal beta test can match and it does it in a very open and transparent way. No NDA and such. What the developer does with this feedback is up to them. I certainly assume that the developers are interested in identifying glaring issues and fixing them before they release the final version.

Speaking from experience, do you actually get useful feedback on Steam forums? The few I've bothered to look at seem like they have a very low signal-to-noise ratio. Normally, it's impossible to get a straight answer about this from a developer, as admitting the process is useless is liable to piss off their most dedicated fanbase, but I'm confident you wouldn't hold back, Vince.
 
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Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
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Speaking from experience, do you actually get useful feedback on Steam forums? The few I've bothered to look at seem like they have a very low signal-to-noise ratio. Normally, it's impossible to get a straight answer about this from a developer about this, as admitting the process is useless is liable to piss off their most dedicated fanbase, but I'm confident you wouldn't hold back, Vince.
I find it very useful. Naturally, not every post is a pearl of wisdom and not every criticism is constructive or useful, but:

- weak areas are highlighted almost instantly
- every now and then you get a really good suggestion

Both are very valuable to a developer who wants to improve the game. The signal-to-noise ratio is always low, but the sheer number of the participants make it fairly high and useful.
 

Oesophagus

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EA is good for bug fixing and minor tweaks, but inevitably people start to bitch and moan about every little thing and a game may end up feeling like it was designed by committee. I think I prefer it if a designer sticks to his own vision.
 

Metro

Arcane
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So will this one be more like a real RPG or what?
Two hundred posts in a week and they're all probably as shitty as this one.

So I'm guessing no, then.

Also, most of them are polite responses to people like you who have nothing topical to say, so whose fault is that? Yes, people like you.
You're about as topical as you are witty. Was Eye of the Beholder a 'real' RPG? The genre is what it is, if you don't like it don't play it. Might as well ask for a turn-based Gothic.
 

Pantalones

Prospernaut
Joined
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Messages
286
So will this one be more like a real RPG or what?
Two hundred posts in a week and they're all probably as shitty as this one.

So I'm guessing no, then.

Also, most of them are polite responses to people like you who have nothing topical to say, so whose fault is that? Yes, people like you.
You're about as topical as you are witty. Was Eye of the Beholder a 'real' RPG? The genre is what it is, if you don't like it don't play it. Might as well ask for a turn-based Gothic.

Sounds like you need a nap, Metro.

Eye of the beholder had DnD rules to make it more interesting. Without that it would be, well, legend of grimrock.

I don't care about your fan rage, I care about what's changed between the two games, if anything. I am guessing "nothing" but did not want to write it off without giving it half a chance. Well, I gave it half a chance and this is all the response I can get, so now I'll write it off.
 

Pantalones

Prospernaut
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
286
I don't care about your fan rage, I care about what's changed between the two games, if anything.

Feel free to examine our backlog of newsposts about Grimrock 2 to learn about the game's many improvements over its predecessor: http://www.rpgcodex.net/tags.php?id=1198

I should add that the original Dungeon Master did not use DnD rules and is still considered a classic.

Thanks man, but I already did skim all those as they came out and have not got any solid info about any real changes. That's the reason I thought I'd just ask, since for example with WL 2 even though I have seen every news topic there is I didn't see there were no traits, perks, or aimed shots in the game until just today.

Like I said, I am guessing from lack of some kind of change along those lines you can summon up at an instant, the answer is a big no. Not criticizing the game here, just wanted to know.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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A big part of Grimrock is, of course, the brain-teasing puzzles and for Grimrock 2 we have been busy developing new types of puzzle mechanics. Talking about puzzles is a tricky subject to discuss. We believe that the less you know about them in advance the better. So without ruining the surprises ahead, let’s just say that you’re not the only one stuck in the puzzles…

One of the few things some reviewers criticized about Grimrock 1 was monster behavior in combat. We have attacked this problem directly and rewritten the monster AI entirely. As a result monsters are now smarter and they know how to use their larger numbers to their advantage. The repertoire of tricks they know has been expanded greatly. For example, some monsters can call other monsters for help and can use group tactics against you. Of course the behavior of monsters depends on their intelligence so the most stupid and most fierce monsters are still, well, fierce and stupid as they should be. And talking of monsters, there will be lots of new monsters with some of the old, familiar faces making an occasional appearance for old times sake.

As explained in an earlier blog post, the character skill system has been completely redesigned and replaced with a perk-buy system that allows for more flexible character skill development. The design goal is make each level up meaningful and at the same time contain a tough choice. At level up, each character gains only one perk that changes the character in some way. Every perk gained is important. There are no in-between levels.

Tied to the skill system is the item system, which has also been expanded. Many items now have secondary powers that can be triggered by holding down the right mouse button on the action icon. The powers consume energy and range from special attacks to non-combat actions. In contrast to Grimrock 1, primary actions of items can be most often used by any character but the true powers can be used by a character with the right skills.

We have also improved the spellcasting and potion crafting systems to reduce the required number of mouse clicks. Potions can now be mixed without going to the inventory. Using an empty flask in hand will open up a miniature potion crafting panel (see screenshot) which you can even use in the middle of combat much like the spellcasting interface.

The new spellcasting panel allows mouse gestures to be used to cast spells. Spells are cast by holding the mouse button down while doing a swipe with the mouse on the correct sequence of runes. Talking of magic, the Mage character class has also been redesigned. The requirements to cast spells of different schools have been relaxed so that mages can cast larger variety of spells. In Grimrock 2, mages need not be one trick ponies.

Of course, Grimrock 2 also has new spells, a new playable race (with portraits to go) and a new character class. These combined with over a hundred new items, 22 new monsters, new environments, day to night cycle, plus as much more as we have time to crank in, means a lot of new stuff to have fun with!

Looks real and solid enough to me.
 

thesheeep

Arcane
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The new spellcasting panel allows mouse gestures to be used to cast spells. Spells are cast by holding the mouse button down while doing a swipe with the mouse on the correct sequence of runes.
Yes, this is an improvement over the last part, but... damn, is this still annoying as hell.
How about just clicking the fucking icon for the fucking spell?!

This is just just a totally unrequired pseudo-immersion improving "feature". I hate it when games do that.
Let the characters do what the characters should do and the player what the player should do.
Now this is just another layer of Dance Dance Revolution, as you have to do it in real-time.

I wouldn't mind this in games like Arx Fatalis or other first person RPG games where you play the role of one character.
In those I also don't mind aiming at something with a bow, for example. As long as the character's values determine the hit chance/damage.
But in party based games, I find this quite rage inducing and hope that mods will be able to fix it. Ehrm.. will this game have mods?
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
492
So will this one be more like a real RPG or what?
Two hundred posts in a week and they're all probably as shitty as this one.

So I'm guessing no, then.

Also, most of them are polite responses to people like you who have nothing topical to say, so whose fault is that? Yes, people like you.
You're about as topical as you are witty. Was Eye of the Beholder a 'real' RPG? The genre is what it is, if you don't like it don't play it. Might as well ask for a turn-based Gothic.

Sounds like you need a nap, Metro.

Eye of the beholder had DnD rules to make it more interesting. Without that it would be, well, legend of grimrock.

I don't care about your fan rage, I care about what's changed between the two games, if anything. I am guessing "nothing" but did not want to write it off without giving it half a chance. Well, I gave it half a chance and this is all the response I can get, so now I'll write it off.

And since when AD&D rules are a meliorative :asd: ?
 

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