Let's bitch about STEAM! - The Thread!

[Zewp]

So it's incredibly terrible that Steam is 'deceiving' players by giving them a 1.5mb download that downloads an extra 100mb? A paltry amount that's not likely to take the average person more than 5 minutes (and that's with a slow connection), and an amount that he's highly unlikely to care about?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It's the principle of the thing, maaaaaaaaaaaan

Keep fighting them windmills, bro. I'm sure your holy crusade against Gaben will pay out one day, when people recognize you were right all along and you will enjoy the results of all the free time you spent preaching against an online retailer.

Spoiler

it won't, they won't, you won't

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

I base all of software choices on how large an installer I have to download. Really trims down my bandwidth needs. Unfortunately all mah programs are total shit.

The small-footprint installer that downloads the files it needs when you run it is not really uncommon. I've seen it on quite a few programs I've installed so I'm assuming it has some practical benefit. I think not mentioning that is less intentional deception than just not thinking it would be an issue for anyone.

 

[Zewp]

I think not mentioning that is less intentional deception than just not thinking it would be an issue for anyone.

This. Not everything is a giant conspeeracee.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Valve has closed down some Steam groups like Cheapassgamer. What does this mean, RPG Codex? Is this part of the ongoing Valve conspiracy? Are they silencing dissenters? Are our games going next?

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/CAG

 

[Zewp]

They sent me an email last week indicating that for every day I don't praise them they'll remove one of my games and replace it with an EA game.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Valve has closed down some Steam groups like Cheapassgamer. What does this mean, RPG Codex? Is this part of the ongoing Valve conspiracy? Are they silencing dissenters? Are our games going next?

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/CAG

Huh, now that's just an awful move.

 

[LordDenton]

I base all of software choices on how large an installer I have to download. Really trims down my bandwidth needs. Unfortunately all mah programs are total shit.

The small-footprint installer that downloads the files it needs when you run it is not really uncommon. I've seen it on quite a few programs I've installed so I'm assuming it has some practical benefit. I think not mentioning that is less intentional deception than just not thinking it would be an issue for anyone.

I wouldn't give two shits if the 1.5 MB thingie was the only bad thing about Steam. I base my software choices on value and portability, and Steam supplies none of that. I don't use Steam because it's a shit service, not because it says 1.5MB on their homepage.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/846944052785333327/

Wow.

 

[Zewp]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/846944052785333327/

Wow.

Wow, so much stupid in one thread. Ironically, all GMG does is give you a Steam key and save you $4. It's exactly like buying from Steam, except you have to manually input a key that they email to you.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

I like steam. Best way to cheaply rent games. Just stock up at summer / christmas and enjoy the rest of the year.

 

[Dexter]

I agree with you.
However, my impression has been that many of the "Steam haters" don't really care about the DRM. What really bothers them is having to have this foreign platform installed on their system, disturbing the pristine cleanliness of their desktop.
In short, they feel about Steam exactly the same way DOS users felt about Windows in the early 90s. And you know how that ended.

Cmon... you can like Steam without turning it into borderline fanboyism or outright idiocy.
Steam *does* have it's consumers by the balls, if for nothing else, at least in regards to their EULA and/or ToS changes: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/01/thought-do-we-own-our-steam-games/

I mean they call their shit a "Subscriber Agreement" and whatever game one buys (no matter from where) a "Subscription": http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/?l=english
And they make it no Secret that they take the right to be able to dispose of your account and everything you've ever paid them for at any Moment for themselves:

C. Termination by Valve.
Valve may cancel your Account or any particular Subscription(s) at any time. In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including of any Subscription fees, will be granted.

In the latest EULA change everybody was coerced to accept they even added this clause in regards to VPN usage:

You agree that you will not use IP proxying or other methods to disguise the place of your residence, whether to circumvent geographical restrictions on game content, to purchase at pricing not applicable to your geography, or for any other purpose. If you do this, we may terminate your access to your Account.

Personally I'd be more than happy if some European Courts would tear them a new one in regards to borderline retarded terms like those, and I'm going to happily await the outcome of this newest attempt: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/185823/Consumer_group_targets_Valves_digital_resale_policies.php

When was the last time Microsoft argued that they are allowed to lock up their OS and they have the right to visit you at home and dispose of all your Windows software, no matter where you bought it from? If anything, it's more like a modern Apple OS or what Microsoft wants to turn Windows into where there would be only one shop to buy things from, they would always get part of your money and there wouldn't be alternatives.

So, if you're getting pissy, take a hike and let the thread continue with some civil discussions until you calm down. A segment of the population disagreeing with data collection and Steam use isn't abnormal. In the meantime, I'll enjoy my Steam-free game library.

What data does Steam "collect"? The only thing they collect gradually from a subset of people is Hardware/Software Statistics, which are entirely open and they ASK people before if they are allowed to do so (through a PopUp window, if you haven't ever seen it, they haven't collected it from you): http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
The only other data collected is the billing address you will have to enter into every Online Store and some Achievement-based data that you can either make Private or Public depending on your Settings: http://wastedonsteam.com/eur/id/dexter111

Also, Metro confirmed for retarded. "What are consumer rights?"

I can be stealthy as i want on the internet. (relatively speaking) And facebook as an extreme example of user data collecting - does not share that data with thrid parties. Yet.

I think the last 3 pages between hiver, Metro, gaudaost might have caused some sort of minor brain damage...

There's obvious arguments to make for Steam being lacking.
That doesn't take away from all if has to offer, between Steam having been a good influence for PC Gaming/Gaming Industry/Indie games and everything I recounted here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ut-steam-the-thread.71800/page-2#post-2076462 and here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ut-steam-the-thread.71800/page-6#post-2077483

It's either "Fuck consumer rights, who needs that shit anyway, I'ma go suck Gabes dick now and transfer him my house, he's gonna provide!" or "Steam is worse than WW1+2+3 together and GabeN is Double Hitler!" with you people, no middle ground or trying to see that there's positives while acknowledging the negatives: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ut-steam-the-thread.71800/page-8#post-2080631 xD

 

[hiver]

I see benefits just fine, but thank you for jumping to conclusions. I just dont like where they are going with these shitty corporate moves.

 

[DwarvenFood]

Valve has closed down some Steam groups like Cheapassgamer. What does this mean, RPG Codex? Is this part of the ongoing Valve conspiracy? Are they silencing dissenters? Are our games going next?

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/CAG

An error was encountered while processing your request:

This group has been administratively disabled.

 

[AgentBJ09]

So, if you're getting pissy, take a hike and let the thread continue with some civil discussions until you calm down. A segment of the population disagreeing with data collection and Steam use isn't abnormal. In the meantime, I'll enjoy my Steam-free game library.

What data does Steam "collect"? The only thing they collect gradually from a subset of people is Hardware/Software Statistics, which are entirely open and they ASK people before if they are allowed to do so (through a PopUp window, if you haven't ever seen it, they haven't collected it from you): http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

The only other data collected is the billing address you will have to enter into every Online Store and some Achievement-based data that you can either make Private or Public depending on your Settings: http://wastedonsteam.com/eur/id/dexter111

If that's true, then they must not have shown any interest in me over the last year and a half. I've never once seen those prompts, aside from the EULA updates. Which are now called "subscription updates." Call me old-fashioned, but I own my games in full when I buy them.

As for what kinds of data Steam collects, you'd have to ask someone who is a developer or a publisher, or someone who works in the industry for that one. I know a few people who work in the industry, and from what they've told me, devs and publishers have access to a lot of data behind the scenes that Steam compiles for them. Things like...whether the copies we buy are physical or digital according to the keys registered, what the demographics of players are, time spent playing/periods of most activity, if the library of their players has one or more games from a certain dev/publisher, DLC purchased and when, and quite a few more.

Most of this is pretty much harmless, but here's the rub: All of that is marketing data, which you're agreeing to offer by using Steam, irrespective of whether you tell Steam it can collect that voluntary data from before. And what does having Steam open all the time encourage you to do? Spend money, from which Valve gets 30% or more every time, even with massively discounted game sales of 50% or more.

Actually, let me ask you something in return: What sort of benefits can you see from giving Valve a laundry list of the programs you have installed on your computer? Ignore the hardware bit, and just focus on the software part. They can't market Office 2013 to you, nor any upgrades to Firefox. So, why give them that kind of information? Origin may not have asked, sure, but is Valve really that worthy of a list of your preferred programs? And if they are, I'd like to hear your reasons why.

 

[Zewp]

Agentblowjob, are you still whining about Steam? How tiresome.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I think he has valid concerns to bring up, why is everyone here acting like a fanboy?

 

[Zewp]

It's ironic that the moment someone disagrees with someone else or simply isn't in the mood to argue something as pathetically trivial as this they're automatically fanboys.

He's asking us to give justifications for why Steam's datamining doesn't bother us, when the only real answer is that we simply don't give a fuck. He's just one of those typical people who will hate Steam no matter what and he cannot understand how other people can simply not give a fuck about the trivial things he worries himself with.

 

[octavius]

It's only natural to express your thoughts about things you worry about.
What I don't understand is all the effort going into not giving a fuck from some of the Steam fans.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Actually, let me ask you something in return: What sort of benefits can you see from giving Valve a laundry list of the programs you have installed on your computer? Ignore the hardware bit, and just focus on the software part. They can't market Office 2013 to you, nor any upgrades to Firefox. So, why give them that kind of information? Origin may not have asked, sure, but is Valve really that worthy of a list of your preferred programs? And if they are, I'd like to hear your reasons why.

Yes, it is. Because

massively discounted game sales of 50% or more.

For that, I'll gladly let them know top secret stuff like what developer I like best, if I like popamole shooters like most 20-somethings or if I usually play games at night.

 

[Zewp]

It's more the fact that you morons think we're Steam fans simply because we use the service and it doesn't bother us. I also get my television network from DSTV and I don't mind getting it from them, but it doesn't mean I'm a fan.

Steam provides me with games, often for very cheap, the service doesn't inconvenience me and I've never been bothered by their policies or EULA. That's more than enough reason for me to use them to buy games I'm probably going to play once and never again.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I don't like having everything I do logged for a third party to do whatever it wants with, that's a troubling precedent.

 

[LordDenton]

I don't like having everything I do logged for a third party to do whatever it wants with, that's a troubling precedent.

Steam retards like Zewp don't care about having zero consumer rights and losing the benefit offered by the first sale doctrine. Do you actually believe they would care about something as "petty" as setting a precedent that logs their every interaction with the service?

 

[Zewp]

I don't like having everything I do logged for a third party to do whatever it wants with, that's a troubling precedent.

Scared Steam will see you watching gay porn?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Lol, "precedent". We aren't in the 90's anymore.