Let's bitch about STEAM! - The Thread!

[Infinitron]

The issue is that as soon as somebody mentions that he's unwilling to infect his system with Steam, the apologists come out of the woodwork

It's hardly that one-sided. For instance, in this thread, Jaesun asked a simple question, and got these types of replies.

Things sort of escalated from there.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I keep being told that I'm just renting my games

Can you re-sell the game? No? It's rented.

Gaben doesn't need a defense force. Steam speaks for itself with superior sales and service~~~~

Your "I hide the fact that I'm gigantic fanboy faggot by mockingly imitating one" shtick is getting really old.

Jaesun asked a simple question, and got these types of replies.

And why aren't those replies good? Do you expect someone to say that Steam installs malware on your PC to account for the "malicious" remark, or what?

 

[Jaesun]

malicious [muh-lish-uhs]  

ma·li·cious   [muh-lish-uhs]
adjective

1. full of, characterized by, or showing malice; malevolent; spiteful: malicious gossip.
2. Law . vicious, wanton, or mischievous in motivation or purpose.

Origin:
1175–1225; Middle English malicius < Old French < Latin malitiōsus. See malice, -ous

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

I keep being told that I'm just renting my games

Can you re-sell the game? No? It's rented.

I don't think you know what rented means.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Well, thanks, I just discovered online dictionaries.

Cool, let's take everything literally and pretend there's nothing bad about Steam because some guy used an out of place word.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

You're stretching the definition to something it isn't. That's all I'm saying.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I don't think you know what rented means.

Ok, give me a word for "I've bought it, but it's not really mine."

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

"I hide the fact that I'm gigantic fanboy faggot by mockingly imitating one"

Whaaaaaaat? I never hid it. I sometimes exaggerate it to be silly but it should still be obvious I love Gaben.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

Ok, give me a word for "I've bought it, but it's not really mine."

I'm not sure there is such a word in the English language. Renting specifically refers to paying for temporary use on a renewable basis. Something you have permanent ownership of, in this case a software license, isn't something you rent. You're right that you can't resell the license, but then strictly speaking many EULA's for proprietary software forbid that practice anyway. Doesn't mean it's right, just that this is common practice in the proprietary software industry.

 

[Average Manatee]

It's temporary in that Valve is not permanent and when they go so will everything you have.

 

[20 Eyes]

Ok, give me a word for "I've bought it, but it's not really mine."

I'm not sure there is such a word in the English language. Renting specifically refers to paying for temporary use on a renewable basis. Something you have permanent ownership of, in this case a software license, isn't something you rent. You're right that you can't resell the license, but then strictly speaking many EULA's for proprietary software forbid that practice anyway. Doesn't mean it's right, just that this is common practice in the proprietary software industry.

New verb - 'Gabeing'.

"I gabed this couch from the furniture store for $400 last year, but they just sent a repo van to take it back because I added a cupholder to the arm without authorization."

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

Physical media based games are temporary in that CDs wear out and become unreadable.

There are no 100% guarantees in life. Valve could go under and take my steam collection with it. That is true. But is it likely? Is it any more a risk than my house burning down and destroying my physical game collection? We take risks based upon uncertainty as a matter of course in life. The fact that there isn't 100% certainty that Steam will always exist isn't really a valid argument against it.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Something you have permanent ownership of, in this case a software license, isn't something you rent. You're right that you can't resell the license, but then strictly speaking many EULA's for proprietary software forbid that practice anyway.

So when exactly did it happen that you don't buy games anymore but licenses to use them?
You can justify Steam's disadvantages however you want, but there's one fact that shouldn't be forgotten: Steam does NOTHING good that you couldn't get from other sources. It's existence can't be justified in any other way besides as a DRM platform.

 

[Infinitron]

Steam does NOTHING good that you couldn't get from other sources.

What does that even mean? If RPGCodex didn't exist, we would all be on some other forum. RPGCodex does NOTHING good you couldn't (hypothetically) get from other sources.

 

[Average Manatee]

Physical media based games are temporary in that CDs wear out and become unreadable.

There are no 100% guarantees in life. Valve could go under and take my steam collection with it. That is true. But is it likely? Is it any more a risk than my house burning down and destroying my physical game collection? We take risks based upon uncertainty as a matter of course in life. The fact that there isn't 100% certainty that Steam will always exist isn't really a valid argument against it.

One is a risk you are in charge of, the other is one that Valve is. There is a huge difference between the two.

There is 100% certainty that steam will NOT exist at some point in the future. Statistically 95% of businesses will not last more than 20 years. Even the most robust ones have no guarantee of being still alive 5 years from now, let alone 10. This is assuming Valve is 100% trustworthy in the future and doesn't intentionally cut you off first, which is also impossible to predict in advance (how many other companies have turned to shit far quicker?)

 

[FeelTheRads]

Steam does NOTHING good that you couldn't get from other sources.

What does that even mean? If RPGCodex didn't exist, we would all be on some other forum. RPGCodex does NOTHING good you couldn't hypothetically get from another source.

Exactly. So why all the fapping over it, like it's Jesus or something?
It's worse in every way than other DRM-free services, save probably for game selection. And game selection is simply a result of having DRM in the first place. So what's so good about it that needs constant defending? How is it better than a standard copy-protected CD/DVD?

 

[Redlands]

Steam is great. If it's present in a game, then I don't buy it, and that's saved me from a whole host of shitty games.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

So when exactly did it happen that you don't buy games anymore but licenses to use them?

Since the birth of the proprietary software industry? Look at the EULA of any piece of software, including games, that you have ever purchased. You don't OWN any of the software you use. You own a license to use the software. The software itself, i.e. the actual code, is the property of the person or organization that wrote it. What you purchase when you buy software is the owner of the code's permission to use his code on your machine. Even with open source software, where no single individual or company owns the code, no consumer ever actually owns the end piece of software itself.

What you have to remember with software is that, although it frequently comes on physical media, it is not a physical product. Software is, at a fundamental level, a solution to a computing problem. Remember the solution you'd write out to a problem on a math test in school? That's what software is. The debate between proprietary and open-source people is over whether the solutions to computing problems should be the private property of the person who created it or should be openly available like knowledge created at a university is. Note that open source software can still be sold commercially -- the code, i.e. the solution to the problem, just has to be openly available and freely modifiable.

Regardless, you don't OWN software unless you wrote it.

Steam does NOTHING good that you couldn't get from other sources.

I was suspicious of Steam until 2004, when I was able to compare two separate releases: Doom 3 and Half-Life 2. With Doom 3, I was dying to have the game, so I spent the weekend before release trying to hunt down an early copy. Every rumor I read online of store x has received y copies, I followed up on. In the end, I drove out to several different stores only to come back empty handed. Eventually I just picked up my preordered copy on release day at the local EB (which in those days still had a decent PC selection). With Half-Life 2, there was no following up on rumors, no driving out to different stores to try to snag an advance copy. Instead, I had my preload, and the moment that the game became available, I was able to unlock and start playing. That converted me to digital distribution, and since then I have bought very few physical copies of games.

 

[Spectacle]

If steam goes under I'll replace my games from TPB, no big deal. I guess if you want to feel you own something then steam isn't for you, but I only care about playing the games and shooting some cash towards the developers so I don't feel like a total leech.

 

[Infinitron]

Steam does NOTHING good that you couldn't get from other sources.

What does that even mean? If RPGCodex didn't exist, we would all be on some other forum. RPGCodex does NOTHING good you couldn't hypothetically get from another source.

Exactly. So why all the fapping over it, like it's Jesus or something?
It's worse in every way than other DRM-free services, save probably for game selection. And game selection is simply a result of having DRM in the first place. So what's so good about it that needs constant defending? How is it better than a standard copy-protected CD/DVD?

Wait for summer and you'll see.

 

[Running Fox]

and in the darkness bind them

 

[FeelTheRads]

Regardless, you don't OWN software unless you wrote it.

Again avoiding the issue. It's not about owning the code (Which is what all that pedantic crap you wrote was about. And thanks for telling me what software is, btw), it's about owning the product you purchased, which you should be allowed to re-sell. Even Autodesk (well known faggots) lost a trial when they sued someone for re-selling their products.

Jeez.. I don't own the code. Big revelations in this thread.
Breaking news: When you buy a bread you don't buy the recipe to bake your own, but it's your fucking bread.

I was suspicious of Steam until 2004, when I was able to compare two separate releases: Doom 3 and Half-Life 2. With Doom 3, I was dying to have the game, so I spent the weekend before release trying to hunt down an early copy. Every rumor I read online of store x has received y copies, I followed up on. In the end, I drove out to several different stores only to come back empty handed. Eventually I just picked up my preordered copy on release day at the local EB (which in those days still had a decent PC selection). With Half-Life 2, there was no following up on rumors, no driving out to different stores to try to snag an advance copy. Instead, I had my preload, and the moment that the game became available, I was able to unlock and start playing. That converted me to digital distribution, and since then I have bought very few physical copies of games

Please, can I have another wall of text telling me how you couldn't get game x without Steam, because obviously no other digital distributors exist and it's impossible to get a game without it?

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

There is 100% certainty that steam will NOT exist at some point in the future. Statistically 95% of businesses will not last more than 20 years. Even the most robust ones have no guarantee of being still alive 5 years from now, let alone 10. This is assuming Valve is 100% trustworthy in the future and doesn't intentionally cut you off first, which is also impossible to predict in advance (how many other companies have turned to shit far quicker?)

When you buy a book, even one that you want to always have a copy of, do you really expect, with 100% certainty, that that individual book will last you for the rest of your life? Or do you expect that someday the binding will break, or it will get lost, or you'll spill coffee on it, or you'll lend it to someone and never get it back? No, there is no guarantee that I will have access to a Steam-purchased game for the rest of my life, but then neither is there such a guarantee for anything else I've ever bought.

Valve has stated repeatedly that in the event that they were about to go under, they would unlock the DRM so you could still have access to your games. You'd almost certainly need to back up your games on physical media before the distribution servers went down, but at least you'd still have access. Even if Valve wasn't able to fulfill this promise, I'll still have TPB, so what's the problem?

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

Please, can I have another wall of text telling me how you couldn't get game x without Steam, because obviously no other digital distributors exist and it's impossible to get a game without it?

In 2004 there were no other digital distribution platforms. Even today when other platforms do exist, Steam has the best sales, the best selection, and the best features. Is part of my affection for Steam irrational brand attachment? Sure. But it's a brand that has never given me problems and has only been an improvement over the old retail model. Now if Steam starts fucking me over, I'll change my tune, but until then I'll happily use it.

And I explained what software was because your post made clear that you didn't know. If that's being pedantic, then sorry.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Even if Valve wasn't able to fulfill this promise, I'll still have TPB, so what's the problem?

So yet again, Steam serves no purpose.
You can do that right now and you'll get none of Steam's "benefits". So what's so awesome and indispensable about Steam again?

Cheap games? There's still the second hand market. At least until MALWARE the likes of Steam will destroy it.