Let's Play VtM: Wild Nights - Chapter 10

[Breaking Axe]

Do vampires in WoD have myopia/hyperopia, or do the ones that wear glasses just do it for style? Anyway, Yuri and Esquilax have me convinced, voting C

 

[Rod Rodderson]

Do vampires in WoD have myopia/hyperopia, or do the ones that wear glasses just do it for style? Anyway, Yuri and Esquilax have me convinced, voting C

Odds are, if you had a vision defect in life (or most any other sort of physical defect), it would stay with you post-Embrace. Of course, there's nothing stopping one from wearing glasses for style, or for deception.

 

[Esquilax]

IIRC, there are even Flaws like Blindness and Deafness for vamps, so bad eyesight is still there post-Embrace.

I can't exactly be entirely sure Argyll will like the fact that we're taking away his work from him. It may be drudge work, but he might be pissed off that we looked this stuff up without asking him. Also, it may even backfire on us; Eames never asked us to look into this stuff (and it's clearly some extremely sensitive info) so if we go in mucking around, then all it might do is annoy her and have the exact opposite of the desired effect. Hmm...

 

[Excidium]

Argyll mentioned an individual named Fowlesworth. He resents Eames' success because all of his fellow apprentices have moved on to better things while he languishes, and as a result, he gets to do all of the drudge work. This seems like the perfect person to frame if we start catching any suspicion from our colleagues. I say we take our manuscript, then plant it inside his room, perhaps placing a ward on it. Then, we confide in Eames that we saw Fowlesworth tucking away a note he was writing and being secretive. When the manuscript is uncovered, everyone will figure he was the one who wrote it because he has the most reason out of anyone in the Chantry to work against the Clan. We'll do this once Eames begins to trust us more.

Well, let's hope it never comes to that. I'd hate to follow that plan and find out that there's some random ritual to identify the psychic imprits left in an object. Actually, can't auspex do exactly that?

@ Excidium: She's probably not especially attractive. Joan is likely a plain-looking, bookish girl, not some Toreador seductress.

 

[Storyfag]

Argyll mentioned an individual named Fowlesworth. He resents Eames' success because all of his fellow apprentices have moved on to better things while he languishes, and as a result, he gets to do all of the drudge work. This seems like the perfect person to frame if we start catching any suspicion from our colleagues. I say we take our manuscript, then plant it inside his room, perhaps placing a ward on it. Then, we confide in Eames that we saw Fowlesworth tucking away a note he was writing and being secretive. When the manuscript is uncovered, everyone will figure he was the one who wrote it because he has the most reason out of anyone in the Chantry to work against the Clan. We'll do this once Eames begins to trust us more.

Well, let's hope it never comes to that. I'd hate to follow that plan and find out that there's some random ritual to identify the psychic imprits left in an object. Actually, can't auspex do exactly that?

Indeed it does. Auspex 3, also called the Spirit Touch. And you have three guesses whether Tremere have access to Auspex There might, however, be a random ritual to cover such tracks...

Grotsnik, do we have any ideas on the population figures of both Tremere and other Clans in London? Just curious

 

[Esquilax]

Indeed it does. Auspex 3, also called the Spirit Touch. And you have three guesses whether Tremere have access to Auspex There might, however, be a random ritual to cover such tracks...

Grotsnik, do we have any ideas on the population figures of both Tremere and other Clans in London? Just curious

Goddamnit, you can't win against these cunts! I suppose that makes learning telepathy all the more important: it's much easier for Joan to cover her tracks if she isn't touching objects and leaving psychic imprints on them.

 

[Excidium]

Yeah but the psychic imprint is based on emotions too, not just physical manipulation. Like, it would be pretty easy to identify our ownership of that manuscript because of its importance to us, even if we just moved it around with telekinesis.

But I say we put a ward on the manuscript like you suggested. It would be awesome if there was a ritual to make that manuscript burn itself if somebody other than us picked it up.

ninja edit: re-reading Spirit's Touch description, emotional imprints are derived only from long-term contact or really intense feelings, so if I understand right, telekinesis would still help when manipulating other objects.

 

[ironyuri]

It seems H is going to win. I still think C would be preferable. Argyll doesn't want to do the work, perhaps we could do it for him as a favour.

I still also believe that having heard about it from him, it would demonstrate our adoration (bond) to Earnes that we go out of our way to please her rather than just following orders as they're given.

 

[grotsnik]

Grotsnik, do we have any ideas on the population figures of both Tremere and other Clans in London? Just curious

*gets a pen and twiddles it* Er, well, there are 8 million people or so in Greater London proper, about 13-14 million people in the larger commuting metropolitan area. So if we take your suggestion as to having a 1:25,000 vampire: human ratio (which I do prefer, especially as it gives us a chance to build a bigger society), that gives us 560 vamps, tops (1:100,000 would only get us 140 at most, which is just shit). Then we divide that up, giving the Camarilla a majority over the Sabbat and the Anarchs a relatively small number, take off a few more for Independents and assorted outcasts, and we end up with...shall we say 20 Tremere? 25?

Probably best not to be too exact with it, really. I'd hate to run out of Kindred.

 

[grotsnik]

but is she hot?

She looks like a horse that's been badly beaten by three chavs wielding cricket bats edged with barbed wire, then run over several times by some wannabe country-type in his Range Rover, before being dragged into a Bolivian restaurant and dismembered, then dropped in the soup that gets served to a stereotypically overweight American tourist, who, hoping to visit a classic British pub, wanders into Peckham and reacts badly to the five youths who want his wife's handbag, whereupon they start to punch him in the belly, causing him to vomit up said horse all over the pavement. Then a yuppie steps in it.

...nah, I saw her as being pale, thin, and nervous; an increasingly neurotic individual, perhaps a little vain, but not one to take care over her appearance. Not necessarily ugly, but not attractive enough for her to start Tranny Sue-ing all over the place.

 

[laclongquan]

That is my image of her also. Tremere chick is just not very sexy, courtesy of Bloodlines.

 

[Kz3r0]

It seems H is going to win. I still think C would be preferable. Argyll doesn't want to do the work, perhaps we could do it for him as a favour.

I still also believe that having heard about it from him, it would demonstrate our adoration (bond) to Earnes that we go out of our way to please her rather than just following orders as they're given.

You should read more, we are not bound to Eames.

Zero's back! And yeah, it's just the standard partial blood bond. That could probably have been explained better.

 

[ironyuri]

It seems H is going to win. I still think C would be preferable. Argyll doesn't want to do the work, perhaps we could do it for him as a favour.

I still also believe that having heard about it from him, it would demonstrate our adoration (bond) to Earnes that we go out of our way to please her rather than just following orders as they're given.

You should read more, we are not bound to Eames.

Zero's back! And yeah, it's just the standard partial blood bond. That could probably have been explained better.

“Don’t fight your own blood. You Tremere are all about the head, so you think you can beat it with logic and reasoning and so on. Won’t work. So don’t try to hurt Eames – don’t think of yourself as hurting Eames. Get close to her; give in to the obsession of the blood. Notice every little detail about her, try to spend as much time with her as you can, hang on her every word. And she’ll understand that it’s the blood bond working its magic over you. She’ll think she’s in control.”

My point was that if we want Earnes to think we're in her power, we should be doing shit to please her and show our worth. Finding out the layout of the chantry is useful for our spying efforts in knowing what's in the chantry (and who says all the secrets of the place will just be on a convenient map in the library?), but not in getting us closer to Earnes in order to gain her confidence and trust as a confident and go-to scribe when she needs a job done.

 

[Esquilax]

My point was that if we want Earnes to think we're in her power, we should be doing shit to please her and show our worth. Finding out the layout of the chantry is useful for our spying efforts in knowing what's in the chantry (and who says all the secrets of the place will just be on a convenient map in the library?), but not in getting us closer to Earnes in order to gain her confidence and trust as a confident and go-to scribe when she needs a job done.

Precisely. Our mission is to get close to Eames, find out what she's up to, then reveal it to Dubrik and hopefully stop it. Finding out the layout of the place is all well and good, but it doesn't aid in our long-term goal of establishing a close relationship with Eames where we can learn as much as we can about her.

We can't get very far if she doesn't trust Joan. Dubrik knows a thing or two about how to go about this, so he's given us some very solid advice. There is no way that we will succeed by skulking around and sneaking through secret doors and entrances; this place has people watching everywhere and the entire clan has Auspex. Hell, even the room where we sleep is visible to anyone who cares to look. Sneaking around would be very difficult for a Nosferatu, let alone us.

No, the only way we can succeed and stick it to Eames is by hiding in plain sight. We establish ourselves within the Clan, look like a really loyal asset within the Clan who can really get shit done and become Eames' confidant. We gain access to all those secret areas by moving up the ladder and earning everyone's trust, not by going into places that we have no place entering.

Dubrik told us to get close to Eames, and that's exactly what we need to do. Finding out the layout of this place is important, but our main goal is Eames, she's the key.

 

[ironyuri]

My point was that if we want Earnes to think we're in her power, we should be doing shit to please her and show our worth. Finding out the layout of the chantry is useful for our spying efforts in knowing what's in the chantry (and who says all the secrets of the place will just be on a convenient map in the library?), but not in getting us closer to Earnes in order to gain her confidence and trust as a confident and go-to scribe when she needs a job done.

Precisely. Our mission is to get close to Eames, find out what she's up to, then reveal it to Dubrik and hopefully stop it. Finding out the layout of the place is all well and good, but it doesn't aid in our long-term goal of establishing a close relationship with Eames where we can learn as much as we can about her.

We can't get very far if she doesn't trust Joan. Dubrik knows a thing or two about how to go about this, so he's given us some very solid advice. There is no way that we will succeed by skulking around and sneaking through secret doors and entrances; this place has people watching everywhere and the entire clan has Auspex. Hell, even the room where we sleep is visible to anyone who cares to look. Sneaking around would be very difficult for a Nosferatu, let alone us.

No, the only way we can succeed and stick it to Eames is by hiding in plain sight. We establish ourselves within the Clan, look like a really loyal asset within the Clan who can really get shit done and become Eames' confidant. We gain access to all those secret areas by moving up the ladder and earning everyone's trust, not by going into places that we have no place entering.

Dubrik told us to get close to Eames, and that's exactly what we need to do. Finding out the layout of this place is important, but our main goal is Eames, she's the key.

I mean, H would have been my second choice. Knowing the chantry inside-out is useful, but it wouldn't save us. As you say, Ghouls and higher clan members watching us at all times, auspex, etc.

And it's not like knowing the layout will help us if we get into trouble because of the clan's auspex, and who will we send the chantry layout to? Dubrik? Great. I'm sure if we get into real strife he'll send in the cavalry for us.


Unrelated, but as for Sabbat thaumaturgy- it would be interesting to check it out. However, learning dark thaumaturgy would make Joan an infernalist, especially if we were keen on balefire or some of the other shit (from what I've read). It may be worth snatching any books we find at a later date though, so that we can gain those powers for when we finally break free of the chantry.

 

[SCO]

out of the frying pan into the warm embrace of the Tzimisce vaulderie.

Don't you know? They love you. It's because of that that they love to improve you.

 

[Excidium]

That's why it's cool being a Tremere. Everyone loves you, wherever you go you're surrounded by friends.

 

[laclongquan]

Get close to Eames? Vedy effing funny hardihah ha.

Remember how hard we get Anthony to earn her trust? Even sacrifice our short-termed chance with Erika? Giving her the chance to be top manipulator of London? What does that get us?

Friendship? Trust? Even tangible resources to replace our loss?

Fuck no. Anthony's dalliance with her is profitable in the sense that it's not quite a pyrrhic victory for him. Not. Quite.

Fuck getting close with her. It's just a dead end. Our survival first!

Explore! Explore! Explore! Explore! Explore!

 

[oscar]

Fuck exploring, let's learn some cool magic.

 

[Esquilax]

Get close to Eames? Vedy effing funny hardihah ha.

Remember how hard we get Anthony to earn her trust? Even sacrifice our short-termed chance with Erika? Giving her the chance to be top manipulator of London? What does that get us?

Comparing Anthony's situation to Joan's isn't accurate. It's much easier for Joan to get close to Eames because she has the partial bond, she's already Eames' underling, and most importantly, they are Clanmates. That last part is crucial, because if we show that we're a loyal drone to the Clan and the Regentia, she'll trust us to perform more and more sensitive tasks for her and she'll let us in on her plans. Due to the nature of Tremere clan ties, she'll never suspect that we're working for somebody else, especially the Sabbat.

Now, I'm not saying she'll cop to the fact that she's harboring a Demon, but she will tell us about what her interests are in the Docklands and maybe she'll let a few clues slip as to what she's got lurking within the ruins beneath the Greenwich Chantry.

My whole point here is that we can get much closer to Eames with Joan than Tony ever possibly could. Tony was always an outsider to Eames' operation; he worked with her to kill Angelos and take over Whitehall, but he never worked for her. As a result, Eames always kept him in the dark, at arm's length, and had Oscar watching him. Joan is in a way better position because she's already on the inside and the same Clan to boot. If she can't get close to Eames, then nobody can.

Why the hell do you think Dubrik asked us to do this? He may be a manipulative asshole, but he realizes Joan is in a unique position to get close to Eames and really fuck her over.

Friendship? Trust? Even tangible resources to replace our loss?

??? Loss of what? What are you talking about - I have no idea what you're trying to say. Sometimes I have an easier time comprehending Volourn's posts.

@ Excidium: There's one good thing about our situation: the Sabbat are so desperate for people right now, that if we're successful in our efforts here, we'll be tolerated at least by non-Tzimisce. They need all the help they can get; why do you think they've been bringing a ton of people from out of town? As long as the Sabbat depend on Joan's info to survive and she's useful, Dubrik will keep her around. If she isn't the Bishop will discard her like he did Wilkinson.

 

[Esquilax]

Never unprepared, I say. better know the ins and outs of this place. Besides, we're obviously planning to double-cross dubrik, right? right?

Why double-cross him when we can DIABLERIZE him?!

 

[Excidium]

I like where this is going.

 

[ironyuri]

Never unprepared, I say. better know the ins and outs of this place. Besides, we're obviously planning to double-cross dubrik, right? right?

If we double cross Dubrik then we'll have pretty much fucked the pooch on this one.

We've already betrayed the Pyramid and my assumption is that somehow Dubrik or someone in the Sabbat has used some sort of power/ritual to break the bond to the Pyramid with Joan so that she has to pretend to be bonded just as any other.

Dubrik could easily, if we betrayd him, get the info through someone to Earnes and the Tremere. I think the point of this character, and I'm going by discussions Serious Business initiated for Anthony, so by point I mean our long-term goals, are:

1. To uncover the secrets of the Chantry (I don't mean its layout, but rather its actual secrets).
2. To take revenge on the Tremere for some reason or other (grotsnik hinted to us by way of the pamphlet produced in Chapter 1 that we harbour a grudge against the Pyramid).
3. To gain power in the Sabbat.


edit- Even if we betrayed Dubrik and joined the Anarchs, it's not like the Tremere will ever fucking trust us again if they find out we ever even worked for a Sabbat or spoke to one and how the fuck do we propose to double cross a fucking Lasombra spymaster? Seriously, fuck, and the Sabbat will be out for our blood, oh and yeh DERP.

We need to make the decisions with this character which will most efficiently accomplish these goals without risking a sunrise.

Since it seems everyone wants to EXPLORE! (and it's not like we'll be exploring, just looking for a fucking map, and like I said, how do we know all the passageways will even be detailed on some piece of paper somewhere? And if they were, why would they then be so secret that other Tremere wouldn't know about them and be able to find whatever we hide there? DERP) rather than begin working our way up in the organisation in the kind of way a ruthless kindred spy would do, then whatever.

Grotsnik basically offered us a plot hook: Argyll has a job that Earnes needs done. She didn't really give a shit that we translated those Viennese papers for her, conclusion: she doesn't care who does the jobs as long as they get done. Argyll was assigned this task as arbitrarily as we were ours and it's a task he doesn't much care for. If we do his work for him, he should be grateful that he has free time to master whichever path he's working on, while we get brownie points with Earnes: she doesn't care who does the jobs, but if we show initiative in getting work done that she wants she might think we're worth more of her time than arbitrary tasks.

BUT YEH ANYWAY BROS WHATEVER LETS EXPLORE DEERP Meanwhile, Argyll will do his job and we'll be just another Tremere novitiate with nothing to distinguish us from the rest of the fledglings at the bottom of the Pyramid.

 

[Excidium]

Here's how voting is so far:

C) = 5 (Esquilax, ironyuri, Excidium, Undead Phoenix, Breaking Axe)
E) = 5 (Crooked Bee, Sergiu64, Storyfag, oscar, wjw)
F) = 1 (Zero Credibility)
G) = 2 (Orgasm, Anver)
H) = 7 (Erebus, Kz3r0, Gondolin, Azael, Rod Rodderson, laclongquan, root)

Tell me if I missed someone...

 

[Esquilax]

If we double cross Dubrik then we'll have pretty much fucked the pooch on this one.

We've already betrayed the Pyramid and my assumption is that somehow Dubrik or someone in the Sabbat has used some sort of power/ritual to break the bond to the Pyramid with Joan so that she has to pretend to be bonded just as any other.

Dubrik could easily, if we betrayd him, get the info through someone to Earnes and the Tremere. I think the point of this character, and I'm going by discussions Serious Business initiated for Anthony, so by point I mean our long-term goals, are:

1. To uncover the secrets of the Chantry (I don't mean its layout, but rather its actual secrets).
2. To take revenge on the Tremere for some reason or other (grotsnik hinted to us by way of the pamphlet produced in Chapter 1 that we harbour a grudge against the Pyramid).
3. To gain power in the Sabbat.


edit- Even if we betrayed Dubrik and joined the Anarchs, it's not like the Tremere will ever fucking trust us again if they find out we ever even worked for a Sabbat or spoke to one and how the fuck do we propose to double cross a fucking Lasombra spymaster? Seriously, fuck, and the Sabbat will be out for our blood, oh and yeh DERP.

We need to make the decisions with this character which will most efficiently accomplish these goals without risking a sunrise.

Since it seems everyone wants to EXPLORE! (and it's not like we'll be exploring, just looking for a fucking map, and like I said, how do we know all the passageways will even be detailed on some piece of paper somewhere? And if they were, why would they then be so secret that other Tremere wouldn't know about them and be able to find whatever we hide there? DERP) rather than begin working our way up in the organisation in the kind of way a ruthless kindred spy would do, then whatever.

Grotsnik basically offered us a plot hook: Argyll has a job that Earnes needs done. She didn't really give a shit that we translated those Viennese papers for her, conclusion: she doesn't care who does the jobs as long as they get done. Argyll was assigned this task as arbitrarily as we were ours and it's a task he doesn't much care for. If we do his work for him, he should be grateful that he has free time to master whichever path he's working on, while we get brownie points with Earnes: she doesn't care who does the jobs, but if we show initiative in getting work done that she wants she might think we're worth more of her time than arbitrary tasks.

BUT YEH ANYWAY BROS WHATEVER LETS EXPLORE DEERP Meanwhile, Argyll will do his job and we'll be just another Tremere novitiate with nothing to distinguish us from the rest of the fledglings at the bottom of the Pyramid.

Fantastic post. I hope you realize that I was joking about the diablerie as a light-hearted jest in root's direction.

The goals you've outlined are exactly the direction we need to go in and I agree with everything you just said.

I have no intention of betraying Dubrik in the immediate future; if anything, we need to do whatever we can to stay on that dude's good side while we're in this precarious position. We avoided trouble with him as Tony, and it's 10X more important to avoid trouble with him now. If anything, when Joan becomes a full-fledged Sabbat member, Dubrik will be essential in making sure that any Tzimisce within the Sabbat don't try and fuck with us. We need to be as tight with D as possible, because the Tzimisce will never accept a Tremere. However, a ruthlessly pragmatic man like the Bishop will, he doesn't give a shit that we're Tremere.

Oh, and going Anarch is a death wish, of course. We're already in with Dubrik, not following up on what we've promised to do is suicidal. The Anarchs are a fucking mess anyways, disorganized and with their heads up their asses. We've got to keep our nose clean, work our way up, and slowly uncover the inner workings of Eames' operation. And our first move here should be to stand out among the rest of these apprentices.