Let's Play VtM: Wild Nights - Chapter 10

[ironyuri]

If we double cross Dubrik then we'll have pretty much fucked the pooch on this one.

We've already betrayed the Pyramid and my assumption is that somehow Dubrik or someone in the Sabbat has used some sort of power/ritual to break the bond to the Pyramid with Joan so that she has to pretend to be bonded just as any other.

Dubrik could easily, if we betrayd him, get the info through someone to Earnes and the Tremere. I think the point of this character, and I'm going by discussions Serious Business initiated for Anthony, so by point I mean our long-term goals, are:

1. To uncover the secrets of the Chantry (I don't mean its layout, but rather its actual secrets).
2. To take revenge on the Tremere for some reason or other (grotsnik hinted to us by way of the pamphlet produced in Chapter 1 that we harbour a grudge against the Pyramid).
3. To gain power in the Sabbat.


edit- Even if we betrayed Dubrik and joined the Anarchs, it's not like the Tremere will ever fucking trust us again if they find out we ever even worked for a Sabbat or spoke to one and how the fuck do we propose to double cross a fucking Lasombra spymaster? Seriously, fuck, and the Sabbat will be out for our blood, oh and yeh DERP.

We need to make the decisions with this character which will most efficiently accomplish these goals without risking a sunrise.

Since it seems everyone wants to EXPLORE! (and it's not like we'll be exploring, just looking for a fucking map, and like I said, how do we know all the passageways will even be detailed on some piece of paper somewhere? And if they were, why would they then be so secret that other Tremere wouldn't know about them and be able to find whatever we hide there? DERP) rather than begin working our way up in the organisation in the kind of way a ruthless kindred spy would do, then whatever.

Grotsnik basically offered us a plot hook: Argyll has a job that Earnes needs done. She didn't really give a shit that we translated those Viennese papers for her, conclusion: she doesn't care who does the jobs as long as they get done. Argyll was assigned this task as arbitrarily as we were ours and it's a task he doesn't much care for. If we do his work for him, he should be grateful that he has free time to master whichever path he's working on, while we get brownie points with Earnes: she doesn't care who does the jobs, but if we show initiative in getting work done that she wants she might think we're worth more of her time than arbitrary tasks.

BUT YEH ANYWAY BROS WHATEVER LETS EXPLORE DEERP Meanwhile, Argyll will do his job and we'll be just another Tremere novitiate with nothing to distinguish us from the rest of the fledglings at the bottom of the Pyramid.

Fantastic post. I hope you realize that I was joking about the diablerie as a light-hearted jest in root's direction.

The goals you've outlined are exactly the direction we need to go in and I agree with everything you just said.

I have no intention of betraying Dubrik; if anything, we need to do whatever we can to stay on that dude's good side. We avoided trouble with him as Tony, and it's 10X more important to avoid trouble with him now. If anything, when Joan becomes a full-fledged Sabbat member, Dubrik will be essential in making sure that any Tzimisce within the Sabbat don't try and fuck with us. We need to be as tight with D as possible, because the Tzimisce will never accept a Tremere. However, a ruthlessly pragmatic man like the Bishop will, he doesn't give a shit that we're Tremere.

Oh, and going Anarch is a death wish, of course. We're already in with Dubrik, not following up on what we've promised to do is suicidal. The Anarchs are a fucking mess anyways, disorganized and with their heads up their ass. We've got to keep our nose clean, work our way up, and slowly uncover the inner workings of Eames' operation.[/quote

Well I was going to suggest that we triple cross Dubrik by diablerising ourselves...


Anyway, I don't see how double-crossing Dubrik could work under any circumstances. The London Tremere, and this is meta-gaming knowledge, are in a position of power but diminishing trust. All it takes is for someone int he Camarilla to declare open season on Earnes' Chantry for Greenwich to be wiped clean of the mage's stain if they think we're practicing dark thaumaturgy or infernalist rituals.

Second meta-gaming piece of knowledge: Dubrik will not tolerate failure of any kind. We know what he did to Wilkinson. I very much doubt he'd even be so kind to a Tremere as to give us all our (dismembered) limbs inside the same lead coffin. He'd probably much rather sell us to the new Archbishop of London as a plaything for a favour.

It's early days, so I don't care if we have one night on which we find out the layout of the Chantry, but I don't see how it will drive the plot forward. Such a choice is an aside. If we want to drive the story, rather than be forced to react to it, we should make choices (like investigating the Docklands leaseholds) which will push things in a direction that will be favourable to Joan.

 

[Excidium]

Presented that way, H looks a lot more tempting. Sometimes I forget where this unfortunate bunch spawned from...

 

[ironyuri]

I think you're missing my point. I care little for the inner passages and corridors and the map of the chantry. What I want to see is its structural layout. It's a Hawksmoor. It has something innate to it that is important to both Eames and Hob, as are the other Hawksmoors, and a bookworm such as ourselves might be able to glean something from that. Something that might either upset Eames, or please her, if we play our cards right.

Remember our roots; We are mages of the house of Hermes. We dabble in the secret, nay, we worship the Secret. The inner understading. Archicteture is the secret, the divine will made manifest through the hermetical combination of numbers and geometry in the material world. This is something that should concern us greatly, much more than menial work or discovering a daemon's whereabouts. There is power in these stones. We must learn it. We must learn to harness from it.

That certainly does make H more agreeable than previous arguments for secret passages and hidey-holes. Though again this seems to be metagaming knowledge of a sort. We don't know that our Tremere believes the power of the stones or even that the Hawksmoor myth is true.

What we do know (in character) is that we've had a quest hook dangled for us by Argyll.If H wins on the basis of root's suggestion though, I'd find it much less derp.

 

[Azael]

That's one of the reasons why I found H intriguing, though the merits of C are obvious as well. We do need to learn more Thaumaturgy over time to be useful to our new Sabbat masters though, but hopefully there will be chances for that later as well if we act the loyal lapdog.

 

[ironyuri]

That's one of the reasons why I found H intriguing, though the merits of C are obvious as well. We do need to learn more Thaumaturgy over time to be useful to our new Sabbat masters though, but hopefully there will be chances for that later as well if we act the loyal lapdog.

The way I see thaumaturgy at the moment: better to be taught than to try to learn it. Earnes might reward us if we gain her favours. If we ever want to learn dark thaumaturgy however, we're on our own. So we should look into that later most certainly.

 

[Azael]

Indeed, it's a lot safer for us if we are taught Thaumaturgy from our superiors rather than picking up skills we "shouldn't" have on our own, Dark Thaumaturgy sounds seriously fucked up though, but potent.

 

[Gondolin]

Argyll was assigned this task as arbitrarily as we were ours and it's a task he doesn't much care for. If we do his work for him, he should be grateful

Maybe.

As far as I can tell, we must either take credit for the job or not. If we take credit, there's a good chance that Eames will be angry with Argyll and, consequently, Argyll will be angry with us. If we don't take credit, we're no closer to Eames than before.

 

[ironyuri]

Argyll was assigned this task as arbitrarily as we were ours and it's a task he doesn't much care for. If we do his work for him, he should be grateful

Maybe.

As far as I can tell, we must either take credit for the job or not. If we take credit, there's a good chance that Eames will be angry with Argyll and, consequently, Argyll will be angry with us. If we don't take credit, we're no closer to Eames than before.

He'd be as ruthless with us as we would with him. Fuck the neonates, we are kindred.

 

[Esquilax]

I think you're missing my point. I care little for the inner passages and corridors and the map of the chantry. What I want to see is its structural layout. It's a Hawksmoor. It has something innate to it that is important to both Eames and Hob, as are the other Hawksmoors, and a bookworm such as ourselves might be able to glean something from that. Something that might either upset Eames, or please her, if we play our cards right.

Remember our roots; We are mages of the house of Hermes. We dabble in the secret, nay, we worship the Secret. The inner understading. Archicteture is the secret, the divine will made manifest through the hermetical combination of numbers and geometry in the material world. This is something that should concern us greatly, much more than menial work or discovering a daemon's whereabouts. There is power in these stones. We must learn it. We must learn to harness from it.

Ah, now that is an excellent argument in favour of H. Much better than HERP DERP LETS EXPLORE. I would be a lot more content with H now that you've put forth such a great line of reasoning.

Still like C the best tho, as I think Eames is well aware of all that good shit you mentioned and would be willing to teach us should we prove a valuable protege. Argyll might get pissed off we ended up doing his assignment for him, but fuck him; we're not here to make friends, we're here to climb the ladder, gain the Regentia's trust, then fuck her over as badly as possible on our road to freedom. The more Tremere that die because of our efforts, the better.

Tony at least had some vestiges of morality*, but Joan will probably be much more ruthless than he was.

* As nasty as Tony could be, he was loyal to those close to him at least, which is why he told Erika about Eames' plans to replace her at the expense of his standing with the Barons. Giving Erika that heads-up may have saved her life.

EDIT: I just read Rod's post. I suppose it makes sense not to make enemies of Argyll, even if he's low on the totem pole. Could bite us in the ass.

 

[Rod Rodderson]

Yeah, the problem I have with C is that Argyll might not take kindly to it (unless Eames doesn't care at all, in which case it would have been a waste of time) and I don't see it wise to make enemies of our peers. Yeah, he's ultimately irrelevant, but if he's actively looking for something to discredit us, then he might well find it. And it's been made clear that secrecy is not something we have much of.

For those mentioning Dark Thaumaturgy, know that even the Sabbat frowns upon it. And by "frowns upon it" I mean the Inquisition will have you offed if they find out (and it will become increasingly obvious that you're following it at some point). When it comes to it, we'd be better off trying to find whatever texts the Tremere antitribu left behind and work from those.

 

[laclongquan]

THe point of being spy is make no wave and blend in.

 

[Kz3r0]

I think you're missing my point. I care little for the inner passages and corridors and the map of the chantry. What I want to see is its structural layout. It's a Hawksmoor. It has something innate to it that is important to both Eames and Hob, as are the other Hawksmoors, and a bookworm such as ourselves might be able to glean something from that. Something that might either upset Eames, or please her, if we play our cards right.

Remember our roots; We are mages of the house of Hermes. We dabble in the secret, nay, we worship the Secret. The inner understading. Archicteture is the secret, the divine will made manifest through the hermetical combination of numbers and geometry in the material world. This is something that should concern us greatly, much more than menial work or discovering a daemon's whereabouts. There is power in these stones. We must learn it. We must learn to harness from it.

That certainly does make H more agreeable than previous arguments for secret passages and hidey-holes. Though again this seems to be metagaming knowledge of a sort. We don't know that our Tremere believes the power of the stones or even that the Hawksmoor myth is true.

What we do know (in character) is that we've had a quest hook dangled for us by Argyll.If H wins on the basis of root's suggestion though, I'd find it much less derp.

H
Fighting disciplines are useless for us, unless you are hoping to find a book explaining how to become an Antediluvian in one week.
And Argyll will gladly tell us all we want to know about the Docklands.
More importantly, grotsnick hinted more than once that the chantries, their disposal and architecture, are the key.

 

[ironyuri]

I think you're missing my point. I care little for the inner passages and corridors and the map of the chantry. What I want to see is its structural layout. It's a Hawksmoor. It has something innate to it that is important to both Eames and Hob, as are the other Hawksmoors, and a bookworm such as ourselves might be able to glean something from that. Something that might either upset Eames, or please her, if we play our cards right.

Remember our roots; We are mages of the house of Hermes. We dabble in the secret, nay, we worship the Secret. The inner understading. Archicteture is the secret, the divine will made manifest through the hermetical combination of numbers and geometry in the material world. This is something that should concern us greatly, much more than menial work or discovering a daemon's whereabouts. There is power in these stones. We must learn it. We must learn to harness from it.

That certainly does make H more agreeable than previous arguments for secret passages and hidey-holes. Though again this seems to be metagaming knowledge of a sort. We don't know that our Tremere believes the power of the stones or even that the Hawksmoor myth is true.

What we do know (in character) is that we've had a quest hook dangled for us by Argyll.If H wins on the basis of root's suggestion though, I'd find it much less derp.

H
Fighting disciplines are useless for us, unless you are hoping to find a book explaining how to become an Antediluvian in one week.
And Argyll will gladly tell us all we want to know about the Docklands.
More importantly, grotsnick hinted more than once that the chantries, their disposal and architecture, are the key.

I'm glad you highlighted that for me. Though it's still metagaming knowledge.

Our character doesn't necessarily know about Earnes and Hob, just that Dubrik wants dirt on Earnes for some reason.

We of course know about Hob, the Hawksmoor churches from Griddle's seer's prophecy, Earnes betrayal of Anthony Sommers, etc etc.... but Joan doesn't. She's been locked in the Chantry , trapped in a room.

I guess I don't like abusing metagaming knowledge too much and hope grotsnik punishes us for doing so.

Even when we made our plan to lure Angelos into the Caecilian trap, it never went beyond what our character was capable of doing or knowing. He knew about Angelos' existence, he knew about the Caecilian and he had contacts in the government to get the required explosives.

IF Joan discovers some shit about how the Chantry is a place of power, where's the fun in finding out what we already know through Sommers' chapter?

 

[Esquilax]

To be fair, Joan at least knows that there's something lurking underneath and she suspects that it's something terrifying.

M) If you want to defect, begin by investigating Samantha Eames. That was what Dubrik said. But how are you supposed to climb the ladder in an organisation that’s entirely stagnant? Still, you’ve taken some risks – and you’re beginning to suspect that Eames is up to something big. There’s something in the ruins, you believe, below the Greenwich chantry. Sometimes, in a fit of panic, you imagine that it could even be one of the antediluvians themselves. But Dubrik keeps pushing for more evidence, and your curious behaviour has begun to alienate your Camarilla ‘peers’. The closer you get, the more you become certain that you’re going to be found out.

And look at Joan's A Kindred Enslaved passages. As a Tremere, she has already thought about the structure of the Chantry and "Archicteture is the secret, the divine will made manifest through the hermetical combination of numbers and geometry in the material world." So checking out the layout of the place isn't coming out of nowhere.

That being said, I disagree with the last part of root's post:

"This is something that should concern us greatly, much more than menial work or discovering a daemon's whereabouts."

It should indeed concern us greatly, but the work going on in the Docklands is hardly menial. Eames has something important planned there, and something she wants secret; as Argyll said, why else would she get one of her apprentices to investigate leaseholds there when she could just get some Kine contractor? The answer is that it's so she can cover her tracks. A guy like Tony will track down a Kine contractor in five minutes with his connections, there's no way Eames is going to be so careless.

And the Daemon's whereabouts are certainly important too. We've already promised Dubrik we would investigate it, and if we neglect it, he may decide our usefulness has come to an end. The man's already proven that he's willing to cut dead weight without a second thought. It's still early, so investigating the layout of the Chantry is fine for now, but we sure as hell can't afford to dilly-dally for long.

 

[laclongquan]

You turn up out of the spiral staircase, shoving Damned Lies and Pyramid Selling deep into your jacket pocket, and almost walk into another Kindred.

He gives you a sharp, slightly cold smile, and bows; he’s elegantly dressed, you note, blonde-haired, a walking-stick clutched in his hand.

Then he turns, and continues on down the corridor. Behind him, the tall, silver-haired man you recognise as Rodyon Turcov gives you a careless nod before following his companion.

What an elegant figure of a Ventrue: coldly stylish and

 

[Azael]

While making Dubrik a Ventrue antitribu would give some explanation to both his rivalry and interest with Tony, it would still be cooler to have made him a Lasombra I think. Not sure why, since I've never played V:tM, but from the fluff they are probably my favorite clan.

Metagaming is bad, m'kay, but also hard to avoid. Some level of it should be acceptable I think. The stuff in Docklands is damn interesting as well and grotsnik was a sneaky git by combining these information gathering tasks with promises of immediate power in the form of new magic tricks.

 

[grotsnik]

While making Dubrik a Ventrue antitribu would give some explanation to both his rivalry and interest with Tony, it would still be cooler to have made him a Lasombra I think. Not sure why, since I've never played V:tM, but from the fluff they are probably my favorite clan.

But he is Lasombra. It's been mentioned a few times before.

This ain't no continuity error. For once.

 

[Excidium]

Then who's the bald Ventrue mentioned in this part:

[...] You hesitate, at the door to Eames’ office. What was it Bishop Dubrik told you?

“Don’t fight your own blood. You Tremere are all about the head, so you think you can beat it with logic and reasoning and so on. Won’t work. So don’t try to hurt Eames – don’t think of yourself as hurting Eames. Get close to her; give in to the obsession of the blood. Notice every little detail about her, try to spend as much time with her as you can, hang on her every word. And she’ll understand that it’s the blood bond working its magic over you. She’ll think she’s in control.”

He wasn’t what you expected; a stout, bald-headed Ventrue antitribu who loitered in the shadows of Greenwich Park and spoke in a hoarse, rotten whisper.

“If you’re in danger of getting caught, if you think they’ve found you out, you’re on your own until you can get to the river. Make it to the south side of Lambeth Bridge and the London Sabbat has people there that can protect you. They’ll take you in until we can extract you back to safety in Liverpool; you’ll be given a house of your own, funds, and the freedom to work as you wish. The password is ‘meubjilat’. Can you remember that?”

?

 

[Storyfag]

The good Bishop's Ventrue antitribu agent posing as the man himself in the eyes of our Tremere, perhaps?

 

[Azael]

While making Dubrik a Ventrue antitribu would give some explanation to both his rivalry and interest with Tony, it would still be cooler to have made him a Lasombra I think. Not sure why, since I've never played V:tM, but from the fluff they are probably my favorite clan.

But he is Lasombra. It's been mentioned a few times before.

This ain't no continuity error. For once.

Oh right, sneaky fuck that Bishop, as fits a true Lasombra. I thought it was mostly Camarilla Lasombra, few as they are, who tried to keep up appearance as Ventrue (unless they are super powerful like Montano), but maybe I got that part wrong too. Makes sense that Joan would be deceived though, why trust a fresh agent with your true appearance after all?

 

[Excidium]

The good Bishop's Ventrue antitribu agent posing as the man himself in the eyes of our Tremere, perhaps?

Oh...I see. Confusing.

 

[SCO]

You guys are so naive.

 

[ironyuri]

You guys are so naive.

Looks like SCO knows the..... SCOre.





It's eight in the fucking morning I hope you can all forgive me for what I just did.

 

[Excidium]

Hey did anyone see this? White Wolf will release a new VtM corebook, with updated setting and everything:

http://vampirethemasquerade.com/

 

[Orgasm]

I hate to be that dude but wtf is this? Some kind of tv show with weekly episodes and season breaks?

...moar...