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Let's Rise Poland from the ashes in Victoria 2 (revived)
- Thread starter Cassidy
- Start date
Cassidy
Arcane
zenbitz said:
I think the truce was still valid.
Every time a war is over there is a period of truce that, if you violate, will cause a large prestige loss for you and much greater infamy. The AI never declares war while there is a truce.
Finally, the focus of Germany is in Alsaice-Lorraine right now.
LusciousPear
Savant
Looks like I'll hafta wait a year for fanpatches to make this awesome.
Cassidy
Arcane
There is a reason why most people don't even touch countries like Luxembourg in Hearts of Iron games.
=============================
Years of Sadness and Hope
Upon the end of the Great War, an interesting set of diplomatic events related to Krakow were going on. Germany was trying to pull Krakow away from the Russian sphere of influence, and both fought hardly in the diplomatic battlefield for her. The reason for this was for now a mystery, but many were worried about it, to the point the rebuilding of the standing army to maximum strength was immediately ordered, with balanced guard and artillery brigades, plus a few hussars.
More unprofitable factories have their subsidies cut off.
Theme
And improvements in military procedures carried on, however, nobody expected the news, the terrible news, that would be heard of in the beginning of 1891.
First came neutral or bad news: the Germans thrown Krakow out of Russian sphere of influence, and for a while, the young nation was free to pursue their own foreign policy from now on, then, immediately after:
WAR
Against Krakow
Germany demands Silesia, and as soon as their war is declared, all "allies" of Krakow: the sandniggers and Italy, run away like worthless cowards, leaving Krakow alone against one of the greatest military powers of the world. This was like a gigantic kick in the nuts after the long earned victory against Austria. Alone, Krakow stood no chance of winning, but they would not give up without a fight.
Outnumbered, their situation was dire. In Breslau, the first of many great battles has begun. The allied forces were mostly recently built and freshly mobilized and lacked organization to face so many enemies. Slowly, the entirety of them headed to Breslau to hopefully turn the tide as gigantic casualties racked up.
News came also from the political fields. It was strange for a country to pass through democratic reforms in the middle of a war, but such was the way of Krakow, and now, politically Krakow stood among the most liberal and progressive countries of the world.
Even though this liberty could be incredibly short lasted, for ITZ coming, and total subjugation by the German war machine is not a distant, but immediate threat depending on how their performance goes in this war.
The Germans suffer a crushing defeat and heavy losses in Breslau. Immediately after the defenders of Breslau move elsewhere, until a small force is left to defend it, drawing once again the same attackers to try seizing it.
They fall right into the trap.
These great victories in the opening stages of the war mean Krakow might have a chance of victory and of retaining Silesia, and, to not lose momentum, the defenders chase the retreating enemy force, hoping to completely wipe out those forty thousand, already reduced to more than half of such number.
DEATH TO THE GERMAN INVADER!
Thus the Germans took heavy defeats in the opening stages of the conflict. There was hope, hope of being able to humiliate the enemy in spite of their might. The Poles cheered as they witnessed their fellow men victorious against one of the most powerful armies of the world, and they were fighting alone, with no allies to their side.
All provinces around the invaders were being slowly occupied. The plan was to hopefully encircle them while the battle for Liegnitz has begun. There was however one thing this plan didn't consider, because, should it happen, then there would truly be no more hope for Krakow.
ITZ.
The entirety of the German Army was now focused on Krakow. Outnumbering them at more than 5:1, now there was no more hope or chance of victory. But even then, Krakow attempted to negotiate a white peace, in the name of hundreds of thousands Germans that would die otherwise.
But what did the German Kaiser, in all his coldness, care about the lives of the workers? They were simply seem as puppets and tools, instruments of tyranny and imperialism, to be slaughtered by the thousands when convenient. And thus there was no choice.
Liegnitz was secured, but in face of incoming numbers of massive German legions it was no real victory. Strategically, Krakow was doomed to an inevitable defeat, sooner or later. It would be in Kustrin that their last hope would come.
Armia Krajowa fought with a bravery and competence that, in spite of the fact they were strategically doomed, tactically they have humbled the mighty German Army. First they have completely annihilated an entire army of theirs during the beginning of the war, and second, for every inch of land they took, they were paying a steep price. They were still winning ultimately, but like the Russians, they died in the droves for Silesia, for a cause that wasn't even just.
And then came the final showdown. The near entirety of the Krakow soldiers made their stand in Kustrin, and they bravely held it for months against a numerically superior force. However, the tides were going against them.
About Sixty-nine thousand, exhausted Polish soldiers stood fiercely against a legion of more than two hundred fifteen thousand Germans, even in face of what could be defeat, unlike the French, they fought to the end, making the Germans pay a very heavy price in lives.
But they never had any chance of actually winning the battle, even if the enemy suffered much greater casualties than them did. The situation of the front was precarious, and many would die fighting, alone... with no escape. And die.
Many of them died, dozens of thousands, but immediately, a new army was mobilized together with the survivors, and readied itself in Krakow and around as the enemy encroached her gates. They thus launched one last, desperate offensive to turn the tide of the war, or convince the Germans of signing white peace... but in the end, it seemed for naught.
Kattowitz would be the Waterloo of Krakow. Their last hope... waning, fading, but they clinged to it, and they charged, despite aware of the enemy's numerical superiority.
The Germans were forced to send more and more men to Kattowitz to prevent losing it. That they would do such a thing was proof that the only thing working against Krakow was the limited size of her Army, and nothing more. Were they just a few extra millions greater in population, the Germans would have paid a steep price for their arrogance and imperialism, and even now news of how their "prowess" was broken in battles where they were slaughtered by much smaller forces were spreading to the word.
Intelligence discovered that the ultimate German plan was to annex Krakow, but upon suffering so many heavy losses at the onset of their invasion, they changed their secret aims to only shoving Krakow to their sphere of influence and retaking Silesia.
Eventually, after two years of war, ITZ over. There is no more hope as Germans begin to besiege Krakow and they have too many forces for Armia Krajowa to stand a chance of driving them back. They paid a heavy toll in blood for this, and their much more ambitious goals were changed. It was with great sadness that the president of Krakow saw no hope, no other option than to give the Germans what they wanted.
But not before ordering the complete demolition of all factories within Silesia, of course.
They lost the war, but they lost it with honor, proving themselves in the Battlefield. The Germans would rather have such brave and mighty warriors fighting with theirs than under their command, and thus a sad day, a sad year. However there was one clause in the armistice, one clause that would change everything.
Before the execution of this clause, Krakow found that not only misery came from such bitter defeat and loss of Silesia to the Germans. Slowly, they attempted to make of those who just a few months ago were their enemies their allies, for without realpolitik they would never ever stand a chance of reaching their dreams. One of the German allies offer thus an alliance, a small step of reconciliation as Krakow now lied within Germany's sphere of influence.
Then the Clause was executed:
Krakow accepted to give up Silesia on one condition, a condition which would mark a new era of hope amidst such sadness of losing part of their ancestral land. The condition that Germany would
Support and recognize the official declaration of Krakow's government to refound officially Poland by becoming her. And thus, a small symbollic step was taken towards the long road, a road to which the next step was Congress Poland, and should they succeed at getting Germany's support and sympathies through their realpolitik, perhaps, not only a piece of Congress Poland, but every Polish territory Russia has usurped.
And thus 1st of September of 1892 would be forever remembered as the day Poland has reborn, small, and with most of their territories in the hands of others, Poland nevertheless had now a much better chance of victory: by proclaiming themselves the restored state of Poland, Krakow, I mean, Poland had full justification to reclaim their homeland from the Russians and would suffer no infamy from fighting a total war against Russia for the entirety of Congress Poland.
All that was left to do now was to prepare for the coming time of the most important war ever fought by Krakow since the Great War against Austria, and to reconcile with Germany, forging an unholy alliance with those who once were enemies, to fight against new enemies who once were allies, like Krakow has done since the beginning: necessary means to achieve their ends of liberty for the Polish people.
=============================
Let me be quite honest: the game became horribly slow, chances of becoming a GP with existing states(even before Germany decided to go for the rape) are near zero and without acquire core CBs it's totally impossible to have any chance of ever reuniting Poland, thus I hope you won't baaw over this edit to allow this to happen right now. Had Krakow been in Germany's sphere of influence from the start things would've been far more favorable.
Also fuck, if this game had a maximum command limit it wouldn't be so imbalanced. As it is fighting against any army twice larger or more than yours is totally impossible in the long term regardless of strategy unless they are much behind technologically, very differently from Hearts of Iron 2.
Have I told you that I never liked combat in Victoria games? HoI series have much better, in-depth and balanced combat mechanics that allow even for countries like Poland to put up a fight against superior foes with the right strategies(like I mentioned once it's possible to win as Poland, turn the tide and even annex Germany if you start in the 1936 scenario and make the right strategic choices, but not in the 1938 one).
All right, enough of a rant.
Also:
I guess your question just got answered...
anus_pounder
Arcane
there is no other emoticon better suited for cassidy's LP.
Erzherzog
Magister
Combat in Victoria...as much as I like to pretend it's not important, when the entire army of both nations fight in one battle it quickly becomes pointless. Paradox has no excuse.
zenbitz
Scholar
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2009
- Messages
- 295
wait, you are complaining that tiny Krakow has no chance against Mighty germany? Why SHOULD they have a chance? I think it might be a better game if the AI was good enough so that playing a medium sized or even GP would be challenging. It's clear if you can play THIS well with freakin' KRAKOW then the game must be a tactical bore playing as Germany, Russia, or god forbid Great Britain.
I thought your HOI replay where Poland stands off the werhmacht was totally ridiculous. But maybe I am a realist.
I thought your HOI replay where Poland stands off the werhmacht was totally ridiculous. But maybe I am a realist.
Cassidy
Arcane
zenbitz said:
Multiplayer is the only way to ensure that. Well, except for China. Even if you succeed at becoming a GP as China you'll be so technologically behind other GPs that things will still be tough in wars against other GPs no matter how many legions you can raise.
If you start as GB, leave the game running for days, disable all forced pauses by events and happenings, and take some vacations, chances are that by the time you return you'll see the ledger with GB as #1 Great Power. I'm being serious about this.
zenbitz
Scholar
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2009
- Messages
- 295
Cassidy said:
Well, you could have the AI cheat, like in the original Civ game. Well, I don't think people really want their game AIs to be "good" anyway, but I think you could do it if you wanted too. I think the reason AIs are so easy to beat in this game is that there is always some huge strategic hole in there thinking. For example - in your game it doesn't seem to account for the fact that some territories are "death traps" because they are bordered by too many regions you can counter attack from.
It's obviously hard to design an AI from scratch that is as good at finding the holes in simulation as a good strat gamer, but they could add some adaptive learning or just play test the heck out of it.
Cassidy
Arcane
Malakal said:
Difficult when the freshly organized defenders are put up against a legion and would never win without the reinforcements from the other brigades that were resting as the battle began. Ultimately it still is "> numbers = INSTAWIN"
Cassidy said:
Umm... no? You understand the concept of 'frontage' dont you? Having extremely huge armies vs using smaller stack to encircle enemies, while other stacks tie them in combat is way more effective. And I mean more ffective in a '1,5 million POWs' way.
20 regiments for the first line and 20 more for artillery is the max I think. Add about 20 more reserves for the frontline and you can fight any number of enemies. Of course offensives are more costly.
Cassidy
Arcane
Malakal said:
That is more or less what I tried to do initially(right before a 78k strong army just raised from Berlin), but it is just impossible because the Germans have a way too superior force and both the larger and the smaller stacks got raped in the war. Playing with minors is always wonderfully hopeless.
Also I thought that encirclements require all adjacent provinces to be controlled by the player...
Well I guess I'm at a loss with Vicky/Vicky 2 combat.
Cassidy
Arcane
I have some bad news:
When I mentioned it was slow, I forgot to mention the game's pace is going in an unplayably slow ratio now, in 1892, even at maxed speed. And having to wait a couple of seconds or even more for every fucking day to pass is just too much in a game that isn't about constant warfare like Victoria 2.
Therefore I have to admit I just lost my will of continuing this thread because the slowdown is too much to endure. I can PM a link to the last saved game if anyone is willing to continue.
When I mentioned it was slow, I forgot to mention the game's pace is going in an unplayably slow ratio now, in 1892, even at maxed speed. And having to wait a couple of seconds or even more for every fucking day to pass is just too much in a game that isn't about constant warfare like Victoria 2.
Therefore I have to admit I just lost my will of continuing this thread because the slowdown is too much to endure. I can PM a link to the last saved game if anyone is willing to continue.
anus_pounder
Arcane
at least we have your Hearts of Fallout LP.
The fewer non-weaboo LPs there are, the closer the ITZ.
Erzherzog
Magister
zenbitz said:
I think your post is kind of a contradiction, yes we're complaining that Krakow cannot stand against Germany under the current system, because the system favors big countries by promoting 'gigantic stack vs. gigantic stack' battles that determine a major part of the war. Then you complain about a lack of challenge. The over-simplification of war in the Vicky series is exactly what creates a lack of challenge. Clearly we would both prefer more variety in combat in this game.
I am fairly confident that relatively small nations like Sardinia-Piedmont can safely challenge great powers. I defeated Austria and France. Forts, good or excellent generals, best troops (guards and tanks later on) aided by artillery, reinforcements.
Of course since the newest patch its way bloodier so Krakow perhaps is not the best choice for this. But its doable definitely.
Ultimately what sucks for Krakow is having three neighbors,all being great powers...
Of course since the newest patch its way bloodier so Krakow perhaps is not the best choice for this. But its doable definitely.
Ultimately what sucks for Krakow is having three neighbors,all being great powers...
LusciousPear
Savant
Why do Vicky2 and HOI2 slow down so horribly, but EU3 seems just fine towards the end?
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
Logical answer: More stuff going on.LusciousPear said:
Likely answer: Three expansions short.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
Yea, if you had access to the Unification CB off the bat, and it wouldn't take all the Polish cores to form Poland, it would be far more workable.Drakron said:
Vaarna_Aarne said:
Definitely more things going on. Each 4 people on Earth are represented as 1 POP, they have their demand for a plethora of resources, their home budgets and they produce things. They have culture, religion, issues and ideology, militancy and literacy and all of the above are checked against other variables. And then we add military, diplomacy and all that stuff. EU or HoI doesn't even begin to compare.
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