Level/Map design in RPGs/Dungeon Crawlers

[Krice]

That's why I wrote "realistic": in the context of a game. Not actually realistic, games don't work like that.

 

[Pfhyk]

Instead of playing geriatric dungeon crawlers, my advice would be to play some good Doom maps (1993, not eternalslop) and look into jacquaying (a term from real RPGs). "Boomer shooters" in general are better at being dungeon crawlers than modern indie RPGs.

 

[PompiPompi]

Instead of playing geriatric dungeon crawlers, my advice would be to play some good Doom maps (1993, not eternalslop) and look into jacquaying (a term from real RPGs). "Boomer shooters" in general are better at being dungeon crawlers than modern indie RPGs.

Thanks, I read about

Jaquaysing a dungeon and gonna make dungeons non linear.​

 

[PompiPompi]

Ok, what do you think of this?

You start at a shipwreck, into a diablo like village.
Should I have a noob zone to level up? Because level 1 is a bit weak.

The "campaign" name will be called "Tower of Something".

The tower has 3 or 4 stores, that are small.
But there is a big dungeon bellow it.

Quest would be to get something or vanquish something.

There are multiple entrances.
In the front.
In the back.

There is a graveyard with an entrance to catacombs.
There are mines.

Both can be connected to the tower's underground dungeon.

Should I make all the entrances available right from the start?

Maybe first level of every entrance is suitable for lvl 1 or 2, or is a bit more risky with more rewards.

What do you think?

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I hated teleporters and spinners in dungeon crawlers (ugly memories of Bard's Tale 3 on the c64), unless there was a good auto-mapping system. The Bard's Tale Remasters made them almost enjoyable because the mapping and UI was so clean.

 

[Tavernking]

To be honest, I've never been a fan of dungeon crawls without respawning/random monsters. A significant part of the thrill of a dungeon crawl is the feeling that you've gone deep, and are unsure if exploring one more tunnel or crossing the obviously trapped room to loot a chest or two will be the difference between dying or making it back out alive. When you can just clear the dungeon and make it safe to travel, the layout doesn't really matter any more; it's just tedious safe movement from your rest area to the unexplored bit you're going to chip away at.

I like the way you think

 

[PompiPompi]

Yea, I think that random monster generation is a must, because people get bored quick from doing the same battles over and over again.

 

[PompiPompi]

This is how the "Tower of Something" main map might look like.
What do you think of it?
Of course it's not completly populated yet.
There is two "noob" areas before you might enter the tower.
And a village with people.

 

[PompiPompi]

Ok, here is a better story for the campaign.
I want to make a campaign for the Demo, it won't necessarily be in the final game.

These are spoilers of the Demo campaign.

Tower of Lurak campagin story/idea

You start by landing in on an island shore with your little boat.
There is a small "vikings" settlement, which I called them "Rivelunders" where their original country is "Rivelund".
The vikings tell you that this Island is cursed with bad spirits.
The elders told them the tower in this island is of their folklore creature called "Lurak".
So the campaign basically called "Tower of Lurak".

What happens is that the viking are settiling all the island around their main island. All was succesful, except for this island.
There will be some story about children or women dissappaering or dying, and so only a few men were left in this settlement.
Basically a "colonialism" story, but the idea is that the colonialisers are kind of the good guys heh.

The story is also that... since this island is cursed and weird... all sort of strange people end up on this island. You yourself end up on this island for some strange reason.
There is also a Red Wizard on this island, the red wizard tells you about this island being strange and cursed, and that anyone can gain or lose something on this island.

Basically it's kind of like diablo, where you have a village and a bit of overworld, but majority of campaign happen underground, under the tower of Lurak(church in diablo)

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I hated teleporters and spinners in dungeon crawlers (ugly memories of Bard's Tale 3 on the c64), unless there was a good auto-mapping system.

I know there's been games where I was trying to manually map but gave up because of devices in the dungeon that displace you, be they teleporters, trapdoors, pit traps, spinners, and so on. There's a number of things to consider when thinking about this, most of which rely on realism versus suspension of disbelief. For example, if I'm making an auto-map, do I just assume that the player knows the dimensions of the dungeon? Are each of the floors directly below the one above it? Are the floors all the same size? How would the player know any of this? One of the problems with developing something like this is deciding how much will the player even think about versus how much will you think about this developing it. Also, if the player does think of these things, will they even care? Of course, you can always give the player a device from the start to explain the auto-map such as a magical or technological device that creates a map if you're worried about such things.

But I agree with you, displacement in the map can be fun and interesting for the player, but a way to re-orient themselves is a good idea. The challenge can be that the map shows where they are, but there will be a gap in it so they'll need to find their way to connect back to the known corners of the map should they intentionally or unintentionally get displaced.

Should I have a noob zone to level up? Because level 1 is a bit weak.

This is a tough call. There's reasons to do it, but there's also the case for getting right in to the action. One solution is to make level 1 not as weak. Another solution is to start the character at a slightly higher level, which you could possibly do as part of character generation like the background stuff in Mount & Blade. I always thought it was kind of odd that in Mount & Blade, you could spend your teenage years training as a solider, but still be level 1. You could always set the purpose of the player being on the ship to suggest that the character had a little background in minor adventuring, because it would be odd for a baker or tailor to get shipwrecked and then decide to adventure through a tower dungeon right afterwards.

You could also have the catacombs connect to the tower dungeon, making the catacombs the "newbie" dungeon but only recently became an issue because they were expanding and breached the tower which started waking up the dead in there. So, you start off in the catacombs with lower level things like skeletons and extremely withered zombies and the worse things be in the actual first floor of the tower. This could even grant the player the choice of going straight to the first floor of the tower, which will be harder but more reward, or they could start with the easier catacombs to gain some experience and better starting loot.

Either way, don't let the faggots discourage you. Make the best possible game you can make right now, and learn from it. Don't get overly ambitious, but also make the tools you could reuse later on.