Wizardry Long Live Wizardry! (And The All-New Games By Ex-Wizardry Developers)

[Ventidius]

but the wait for Grimwah

My plans for playing Grimore were fucked thanks to Cleve, so I need a new Wiz-clone.

I know the feeling all too well.

 

[Dorarnae]

this game is coming in about a month in japan, we'll see how it is. not expecting much but I could be surprised.

 

[Ventidius]

this game is coming in about a month in japan, we'll see how it is. not expecting much but I could be surprised.

The setting and the monster designs look nice, plus the art as a whole looks better than most crawlers. Never heard of this dev though, all that I could find was that the director, Sawaki Takeyasu, worked on this game. Does anyone know if these guys have a history of making crawlers or turn-based stuff? You can usually tell if a game is gonna be good by looking at the devs. Even in the case of DT2, Sting were relative newcomers as far as crawlers went, but you could trust them based on their history of making excellent turn-based games such as Gungnir, Yggdra Union, and Knights in the Nightmare. Will keep an eye on this though.

On another note, I managed to install the English patch on Wizardry Seimei no Kusabi, is it any good? Couldn't even find any info on it on the web - seems it managed to slip even under hardcoregaming101's radar, so many wiz games - is it from the same dev as Tale of the Forsaken Land or some other team?

Edit: Just checked Racjin's wiki and it doesn't say anything about it, but with these games you never know who's who given how the personnel switches around. Either way, I'm probably gonna play the crap out of this.

 

[Dorarnae]

On another note, I managed to install the English patch on Wizardry Seimei no Kusabi, is it any good? Couldn't even find any info on it on the web - seems it managed to slip even under hardcoregaming101's radar, so many wiz games - is it from the same dev as Tale of the Forsaken Land or some other team?

it's so so. well maybe in english it'll be better. I guess what sucked is the loot system. the thing is, subclassing in the game makes your character much stronger but it's better to wait til the very end to have better gear so you can farm stronger mob for exp.
so usuallly you should sub class to have a couple spell, more hp ect. but it's better to just bring a tons of potion and rush the game.
I thought it was made by the people who did the wizardry on ps3 since it's part of 'wizardry renaisance'

 

[Ventidius]

On another note, I managed to install the English patch on Wizardry Seimei no Kusabi, is it any good? Couldn't even find any info on it on the web - seems it managed to slip even under hardcoregaming101's radar, so many wiz games - is it from the same dev as Tale of the Forsaken Land or some other team?

it's so so. well maybe in english it'll be better. I guess what sucked is the loot system. the thing is, subclassing in the game makes your character much stronger but it's better to wait til the very end to have better gear so you can farm stronger mob for exp.
so usuallly you should sub class to have a couple spell, more hp ect. but it's better to just bring a tons of potion and rush the game.
I thought it was made by the people who did the wizardry on ps3 since it's part of 'wizardry renaisance'

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Shame about the sub-class thing, class changing around mid-game usually does a good deal to keep things fun for me after the peasant levels in these sorts of games. Anyhow, I'll press on given how I've been itching for a good crawler recently.

 

[Dorarnae]

On another note, I managed to install the English patch on Wizardry Seimei no Kusabi, is it any good? Couldn't even find any info on it on the web - seems it managed to slip even under hardcoregaming101's radar, so many wiz games - is it from the same dev as Tale of the Forsaken Land or some other team?

it's so so. well maybe in english it'll be better. I guess what sucked is the loot system. the thing is, subclassing in the game makes your character much stronger but it's better to wait til the very end to have better gear so you can farm stronger mob for exp.
so usuallly you should sub class to have a couple spell, more hp ect. but it's better to just bring a tons of potion and rush the game.
I thought it was made by the people who did the wizardry on ps3 since it's part of 'wizardry renaisance'

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Shame about the sub-class thing, class changing around mid-game usually does a good deal to keep things fun for me after the peasant levels in these sorts of games. Anyhow, I'll press on given how I've been itching for a good crawler recently.

you can start thinking about sub classing once you finish the main story I'd say.

 

[Dorarnae]

looks nice. just a bit worried for the dungeon map...

 

[Ventidius]

looks nice. just a bit worried for the dungeon map...

Yeah, the looks are great. What bugs me with these trailers from dungeon crawlers(Stranger of Sword City's trailer was like this too), is that they don't seem to cater their message to their audiences. In other words, they don't seem to advertise themselves in a way that it is able to generate interest from people who already play the genre by providing the information that they are interested in. We want to know about the complexity of the character system, the dungeons, the encounters, the spells, items, status effects, etc. Cleve does a good job of this with Grimoire. He advertises the amount of monsters, spells, items, status effects, races, professions, skills, etc. That is the kind of info you can give a fan of the genre and generate interest, even without posting spoilerific maps, even though seeing a few complex map layouts would put you at ease before the purchase(you can't really tell much about that from the trailers, especially when considering some of these games start with simpler dungeons like DT2). Then again, maybe the trailer does that and I just can't understand it because it is in Japanese. But nevertheless pretty much every English crawler trailer is uniformative like that. If you just post pictures of the UI, characters, art, and story, with a little typical crawler gameplay sprinkled, the potential customer has no way to know if he's walking into a DT2 kind of masterpiece or some simplified Demon Gaze-like. Heh, I guess it doesn't matter at the end of the day since I have the Codex to give me recs, you guys are the reason I discovered many of these gems back when I started lurking.

EDIT: And let's not kid ourselves, a disproportionate amount of the people who wind up buying games from a niche genre like this are genre nuts to begin with, so it is eminently in their interest to target them in their advertisement.

 

[duanth123]

Yeah, the looks are great. What bugs me with these trailers from dungeon crawlers(Stranger of Sword City's trailer was like this too), is that they don't seem to cater their message to their audiences. In other words, they don't seem to advertise themselves in a way that it is able to generate interest from people who already play the genre by providing the information that they are interested in. We want to know about the complexity of the character system, the dungeons, the encounters, the spells, items, status effects, etc. Cleve does a good job of this with Grimoire. He advertises the amount of monsters, spells, items, status effects, races, professions, skills, etc. That is the kind of info you can give a fan of the genre and generate interest, even without posting spoilerific maps, even though seeing a few complex map layouts would put you at ease before the purchase(you can't really tell much about that from the trailers, especially when considering some of these games start with simpler dungeons like DT2). Then again, maybe the trailer does that and I just can't understand it because it is in Japanese. But nevertheless pretty much every English crawler trailer is uniformative like that. If you just post pictures of the UI, characters, art, and story, with a little typical crawler gameplay sprinkled, the potential customer has no way to know if he's walking into a DT2 kind of masterpiece or some simplified Demon Gaze-like. Heh, I guess it doesn't matter at the end of the day since I have the Codex to give me recs, you guys are the reason I discovered many of these gems back when I started lurking.

EDIT: And let's not kid ourselves, a disproportionate amount of the people who wind up buying games from a niche genre like this are genre nuts to begin with, so it is eminently in their interest to target them in their advertisement.

Genre fans are going to buy it anyway. Hell I was depraved enough to waste money on MeiQ. There's not exactly a wealth of crawlers in this world. The trailer's for casuals.

That being said, the art style clashes a bit amongst the monster designs.

 

[Ventidius]

Genre fans are going to buy it anyway. Hell I was depraved enough to waste money on MeiQ. There's not exactly a wealth of crawlers in this world. The trailer's for casuals.

That being said, the art style clashes a bit amongst the monster designs.

Hmm, I guess it boils down to consumer practice, I suppose. I mean, I skipped Demon Gaze and even Operation Abyss (despite liking Code Hazard) because of some red flags I saw on this forum, though back then I had a sizable backlog of crawlers to play. But even now, I have stuff like Seimei no Kusabi, 7th dragon, and Wizardry Empire 2 on my to-do list, none of which I have beaten. Still, I don't really think I will ever be starved of crawlers to the point I would end up buying something like Ray Gigant or Moe Chronicle, that's for sure, but there are probably borderline cases where I'd budge. As you say, it's not like there's a lot of them.
Still, you are probably right that devs would be wasting their time selling stuff to the hardcore audience through trailers. I guess not everyone can have a trailer like Grimoire, even if it ends up trailing towards nothing.

EDIT: The game itself so far looks like a buy for me for the general aesthetic alone, provided it ends up being a proper crawler like at least Operation Babel and not one of the more desiccated games. Though considering I haven't heard anything about a localization, I probably shouldn't get ahead of myself lol.

 

[duanth123]

Acquired an early copy of the following:

Set for release on Sept. 19 for Vita.

From what I can tell so far, it's a DT 2 clone, but how good or bad an imitation, I can't say just yet.

The difficulty so far isn't terrible (playing on the highest level, on the second dungeon), but does require some basic thought.

 

[Ventidius]

Set for release on Sept. 19 for Vita.

From what I can tell so far, it's a DT 2 clone, but how good or bad an imitation, I can't say just yet.

The difficulty so far isn't terrible (playing on the highest level, on the second dungeon), but does require some basic thought.

Looks noice, and uncensored too! I wonder if they will show bob... Is it an out-and-out clone right down to the no-chargen and save-in-dungeon stuff?

As for the difficulty, DT2 also started out easy so that's not necessarily a bad sign. Looking forward to any updates on the level and encounter design by midgame. I might actually get this...

 

[Dorarnae]

I heard good things from that game except that it's quite easy...which I am not surprised because it's from compile heart, and after playing some compile heart, I am staying away from them. they have some good idea but the balancing and other things sucks.

 

[boot]

Found some useful information on early Wizardry mechanics- like chance of increasing stats (has nothing to do with class or race, only age!).

http://www.zimlab.com/wizardry/walk/w123calc.htm

 

[aweigh]

Siveon Dorarnae Courtier

Just wanted to remind everybody that since PS3 emulation is now a thing we can play "Class of Heroes 2G"!

I have no idea if it will run well in the emulator (Wiz: Labyrinth of Lost Souls runs well enough, although it ocassionally crashes or enemy textures might appear and disappear, but it is definitely playable), but what the heck, might as well right?

I'm downloading it right now from a filthy website

Spoiler

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_2UUXsGL6nRZHFwS084cGxaVDg

The game had already launched to a limited audience a few months back via a limited physical release. The dungeon RPG sees players start summer school at the Crostini Academy of Adventuring Arts, where tests consist of battling boss monsters, and teachers prepare you for life-or-death situations. The game also supports second screen play on PS Vita, allowing you access to menus, statuses, and maps on the handheld.

I have no clue what this is but it seems to be an HD remake of CoH 2? That seems to most logical conclusion but they were originally selling this thing at full retail price so even though I could easily google this and have an answer ready I choose not to, because I'm fairly sure it is a type of "gaiden" built off a re-skinned CoH 2 port they themselves moved over to the PS3... then they probably added some new dungeons, a few new items, and voila.

I'm not the biggest fan of CoH series but they're charming 'crawlers and I actually enjoyed almost finishing the 1st game on PSP emulator.

BTW, I think this might have been the last commercial release from ZeroDiv... ah, wait, never mind: I forgot they're busy making money with the new Action-RPG style entries in the CoH series that play like Diablo-meets-Ys. This game was released post-CoH 3 (PSP) so it is technically the last of the CoH games.

EDIT: "The PS3 version adds optional dual-screen play, much better graphics, weather, a whole new labyrinth, and an in-game manual."

 

[aweigh]

boot

Yeah man, that document is amazing. I remember when I read it I was very surprised to find out that from as early as Wizardry 3 each race already had built-in hidden resistances to elements or enemy abilities.

All this time playing this much Wiz and I never, ever, knew that fact. BTW, that document also serves exceedingly well as an explenation on how Elminage series of games work under-the-hood, since it is a spiritual succesor to Wizardry, made by ex-Wizardry developers.

Literally 90% of everything on that doc applies to Elminage, and to the Wizardry Gaiden and Wizardry Empire games. Sure some details/numbers will change, but that is to be expected; I'm referring to the core foundation of how the game works.

 

[aweigh]

Ventidius

my god man. what the fuck are you doing posting

go play Wiz Empire 2 right now.

 

[Ventidius]

Ventidius

my god man. what the fuck are you doing posting

go play Wiz Empire 2 right now.

It's definetely on my to do list. Thing is, I don't really have the time right now to give a hardcore game like that the attention it requires because of my studies. As soon as I get some spare time (perhaps December), I shall sink teeth, heh.

BTW, I also got Wiz Empire 1 for Gameboy lying around in my hard drive. Do you recommend any particular order? Or is 2 simply the superior game and I should skip to that ( I assume because this is the one I see getting talked about here the most )?

 

[aweigh]

i actually haven't bothered w/ the GB/GBC Wiz Empire titles.

:embarassed doe-eyed look that sears directly into senpai's soul:

 

[Ventidius]

i actually haven't bothered w/ the GB/GBC Wiz Empire titles.

:embarassed doe-eyed look that sears directly into senpai's soul:

Ah, I see. I always keep an eye on the ones I can emulate due to how easily I can customize everything; speed, bindings, etc. Is there anyway to hack Wiz Empire 2 to make it faster?

 

[aweigh]

Ventidius

faster in what way?

how much faster than this do you want it to be:


-



-

 

[Ventidius]

faster in what way?

how much faster than this do you want it to be:


-

It's fast for sure, but I like to be able to customize the speed in these games, if possible, since there are usually areas where the mobs are not really much of a threat and you just wanna blitz through them as fast as you can to explore.

Still, I don't particularly mind if there isn't a way, game seems way faster than EG anyhow.

 

[aweigh]

(puts on cap and nudges glasses)

MMM ACTUALLY SIR in reality Elminage: Gothic beats Wiz Emp 2 in the decathlon since Elminage series (1 thru 4, er 5 but 5 doesn't count...) allow the option to completely disable the "walking animation" and instead move from tile to tile as in classic Wiz.

Hehe. With that turned on it'll beat Emp 2 at the sprint, for sure, however I believe you are right if you are referring to combat speed. Even with E:G provided options for disabling enemy and attack/spell animations and FX the battles still take slightly longer than an equivalent encounter in Empire 2.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT: Wiz Empire 1-3 and Elminage series 1-4 (Well, 5, but it doesn't count !!!!) have been made, were made and continue to be made by the same dev studio called Starfish SD.

They received the Wizardry contract and license straight from Sirotek brothers in the last years of the 1990's, specifically 98 and 99, and they released their first ever 'crawler none other than Wiz Empire 1 for Game Boy in the tail end of 1999, and then in 2000 they released under the sane name, Wiz Emp 1, their first "real" Wizardry game.

They changed the subtitle to differentiate it from their Game Boy release.

Emp 1 came out for Playstation 1 in mid-2000 and in 2001 they were already almost finished making Wiz Empire 2 for the Playstation 1 (part of the quick cycle is due to the fact that Empire 2 re-uses all of the dungeon maps from Wiz Empire 1, with only different floor layouts but with the addition of two completely new dungeons at the end, with the last one being a monolithic one that to this day remains unconquered on my end.

Starfish SD themselves then ported Wiz Emp 2 but not to another console, instead they enitrely remade the thing over with high-res sprites, higher resolution, half a new soundtrack, around 40 new enemy types and around 25 new items and 1 huge ass new dungeon with two new uber-bosses to beat: it was called Wiz Empire 2: Legacy of the Princess and they made it for Windows PC.

To this day I believe it is their best game. Elminage: Gothic comes in 2nd place. Close... but no cigar, but even so two of the best Wizardry scenarios ever made, that's for damn sure.

Don't feel too bad about the lack of Eng-language Wiz Emp 1 though. This very day I just got most of the script translated sent to me by the person who'd promised to do it, and it's enough for Wiz Empire 1 to finally join its sequel and get translated.

Either way that doesn't mean shit anyway play Emp 2, nowwwwwwwwwww

play eeeeet

come onnn

 

[Ventidius]

Thanks for the detailed info, I am aware of Starfish's prestigious history, or at least the outline of it. I am really interested in their future as well, but I also remember reading in one of these threads that their latest non-port game was kind of declined. A shame really, I hope these guys do not give up in making excellent classic-style dungeon crawlers. Along with Pierre Begue, they are the last force in the industry making genuinely old-school RPGs that can match up to the classics quality-wise. They are the hero that we need. Sadly, they don't seem to be having as much success as Exp or Atlus.

It is really frustrating to see the RPG player-base not supporting its champions. I personally got Original on the PSN store despite having beaten it on the PSP emulator, and got Gothic on Steam despite having beaten a pirate version. I am also planning on getting Original for the 3DS once I have time to sit down and learn how to remove the region lock for my 3DS(it is Euro and EO 3ds is NA only). These guys really deserve all the support they can get. And they are not even being like Begue who refuses to put his games for sale on accessible platforms. They have been bothering to port their games into many consoles and they were even the first Japanese dungeon crawler(correct me if I am wrong) dev to port their console game to Steam....

As for Wiz Empire 2, I guess it can't hurt to at least create a party. Any tips on that front? How similar is it to EG? Do Alignment, level up stat changes, spell slots on class chage, and the rest work the same or similar? How useful are Bishops and Mage spells? Is there Diomente or something like it? Should I get all spell schools on all chars or only alch and cleric? How many class changes per char should I aim for? Is there an item that allows you to class change into Ninja?

 

[Ventidius]

Don't feel too bad about the lack of Eng-language Wiz Emp 1 though. This very day I just got most of the script translated sent to me by the person who'd promised to do it, and it's enough for Wiz Empire 1 to finally join its sequel and get translated.

Actually, I think I have the translation from romhacking as well as the rom. I have no idea of how partial it is, and I remember I was not able to apply the patch. I think I will have to tinker with some rom hacking tools.

Also, do you have any news on the fan-translation of Elminage Gothic for PSP? Been waiting for ages for that one.