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treave

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
I beg to differ. He mastered the sword to a degree where he does not unsheathe it to fight. I take it that he is mostly employing non-lethal techniques for the regular foes.

Well, to be exact, in most of his sword-fights he just imagines he has a sword, uses his sword techniques anyway, and beats people who are using real blades, hence not needing to unsheathe an actual sword. That doesn't mean he is not lethal without one in hand, since he is perfectly capable of pretending his fingers are a real sword and cutting you in half from ten paces away with his sword qi. Of course, he also has a reputation for not killing his enemies, so there's that, sword or no sword.
 

Rex Feral

Prophet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
1,300
“So, Master Shangguan,” you ask, “are you planning on participating in the fight?”

“I am yet undecided,” says the Sword Saint simply. “On one hand, the Fire Cult may be dangerous to the country, but on the other hand, I am not too sure if it is the righteous thing to do, to cut them down like this. Mercy to the defeated is the prerogative of the strong, after all. What do you think I should do, Yandi?”

He considers the Fire Cult dangerous to the country, but how dangerous would they be without their leaders (Vahista, Amesha Spenta) or their symbols (Yunzi, Holy Maiden) ?

Without them they would have no reason to fight and die for, thus no longer representing a danger, thus no longer needing to kill them, thus showing them mercy, as the strong victors.

Minimum casualties and the disbanding of a dangerous group, at the cost of only two lives. A deed worthy of a Saint, indeed. If I were him this is what I'd do.

He does not know their degree of fanatism, but he pressumes, correctly I think, that while the cultists will rush and sacrifice their lives in order to protect Yunzi and Vahista, once they are dead, the grunts will lay down.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Rex Feral said:
He considers the Fire Cult dangerous to the country, but how dangerous would they be without their leaders?
Take it further. How dangerous would they be without the country?
I mean, if we are doing sophistics, let's at least do it properly.

Rex Feral said:
Without them they would have no reason to fight and die for
Except for that part where they still have no home.

Rex Feral said:
If I were him this is what I'd do.
[...]
He does not know their degree of fanatism, but he pressumes, correctly I think, that while the cultists will rush and sacrifice their lives in order to protect Yunzi and Vahista, once they are dead, the grunts will lay down.
Well... you are not him. :) You are just attributing your reasoning to him. He does not presume anything of a sort.
 

Rex Feral

Prophet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
1,300
Rex Feral said:
He considers the Fire Cult dangerous to the country, but how dangerous would they be without their leaders?
Take it further. How dangerous would they be without the country?
I mean, if we are doing sophistics, let's at least do it properly.

Rex Feral said:
Without them they would have no reason to fight and die for
Except for that part where they still have no home.

Without the country? :what:

Also I don't think they fight because they don't have a home, I think they fight because others tell them to. The Lord of the Temple, his Amesha Spenta. Also if he is called Lord of the Temple I guess they have a temple, or at least some HQ which they call home?
 

Nevill

Arcane
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Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Rex Feral said:
Without the country?
Yeah. There'd be no conflict over who governs what if the country didn't exist. There would be no strife, only peace.
A dangerous man, this Sword Saint. That's some ideas he has. :lol:

Rex Feral said:
Also I don't think they fight because they don't have a home, I think they fight because others tell them to.
They are exiles that fled from Persian lands, presumably from the followers of the religion of peace.
Of course they do things because others tell them to, it is what the leadership does. Killing the leadership is not going to solve their problems.

Not that they concern me too much.

Since the DISCUSS! is stuck at the moment, I might as well flop to D2A. The tally:

Baltika9 - D2A
Azira - A3A
Smashing Axe - B3A > x3A
ERYFKRAD - C3A > x3A
Zero Credibility - D2A > D3A
Nevill - D2A
Esquilax - A3A
Rex Feral - D2A > A2A > A3A
Elfberserker - D2A>A3A
Jester - B3B
asxetos - B3A
Tribute - B3A > C1A
Anabanana - D2A > D3A > B3A
GreyViper - D3A
XenomorphII - B3A
Kipeci - D2A > B2A
TOME - D3A > D2A
ScubaV - D2A
Kashmir Slippers - C1A
Fangshi - A3A > B3A
Random Word - B3A
Absinthe - B3A
Lambchop19 - A3A
profreshinal - A3x (not counted)
kazgar - C1B
Grimgravy - B3B > B3A
Tigranes - B3A
The Brazilian Slaughter - D2A
Ifeex D3A
RealDDc B3A
***

Current tally:
A3A - 4
B3A - 8 (10)
B3B - 2
C1A - 1
C1B - 1
C3A - 1
D2A - 9 (10)
D3A - 3
 
Last edited:

Anabanana

Augur
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
1,061
I beg to differ. He mastered the sword to a degree where he does not unsheathe it to fight. I take it that he is mostly employing non-lethal techniques for the regular foes.

Well, to be exact, in most of his sword-fights he just imagines he has a sword, uses his sword techniques anyway, and beats people who are using real blades, hence not needing to unsheathe an actual sword. That doesn't mean he is not lethal without one in hand, since he is perfectly capable of pretending his fingers are a real sword and cutting you in half from ten paces away with his sword qi. Of course, he also has a reputation for not killing his enemies, so there's that, sword or no sword.

Yeah, this is why I'm not too obsessed about the legendary swords or training swords over unarmed. Excellent swordfighters use legendary swords, great swordfighters use wooden swords, but the true mark of a legendary swordsfighter is not needing a sword in the first place.

In fact, I'm mildly surprised that the Sword Saint is still carrying a sword at all. At that level of mastery you should be able to pick up any old twig or branch and use it as a lethal weapon.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Anabanana said:
In fact, I'm mildly surprised that the Sword Saint is still carrying a sword at all.
He fought Zhang before, and I think you do not want to run into Zhang with only an imaginary sword for a weapon. There is alway someone stronger than you, so a bit of caution never harms anybody.

Anyway, I think it is time to analyze the situation and the possible ramifications of the choices given the rundown treave provided.

What is the most probable outcome if we don't intervene?

Guo Fu will hold the ones trying to break through. Vahista will finally overcome Bai Jiutian (he probably won't be able to kill him, though), make a run for Yunzi, grab her, and dash past Guo Fu. The rest of the cultists will either try to follow them, or cover their retreat as they did at Wufushan. I imagine there will be heavy casualties. The young cultist will get slaughtered.

Now, my goals are to stop the fighting between the sides. Not everyone shares them.

I take it that Yunzi either can't disengage from the Twin Flowers, or she is waiting for her people to open a pass so that everyone could leave. In any case, she is not going anywhere by herself, which is why it takes Vahista to move her. If it is the first, you can probably be useful to her if you go with A, if it is the second, then C sounds like a good idea.

If we go with B, we will interfere with Bai Jiutian's fight. Vahista will try to use it to his advantage and break off from the fight to get to Yunzi, which , if successful, leaves us face-to-face with angry Jiutian and a hundred or so hostile pugilists - not exactly an ideal situation to find yourself in. If we are going to prevent Vahista from leaving, not only this adds an additional objective for us to keep track of, making an already hard mission practically impossible, but we also risk leaving Yunzi to the mercy of orthodox pugilists:

treave said:
Thanks to their numerical superiority and Guo Fu appearing to have enough endurance to tie down fifty men at a go, the orthodox side has the advantage in leveraging their numbers: as the battle wears on, it becomes more likely that they suppress the fighting cultists and become able to gang up on either Vahista or Yunzi, or both.

To end the battle, we only need the orthodoxes to back off. If you are going to strike at the head to stop the fight, you only need to incapacitate Bai Jiutian to succeed. Assaulting Vahista as well does not really bring you closer to this goal.

The Sword Saint is a wild card, and it is hard to predict where and how he would help. Still, without him, B looks quite bleak.

Helping the cultists in D and covering their retreat lets Yunzi and Vahista leave as per the initial plan, and the rest of the cultists to follow them safely. I am unsure what to do, personally, but the gut instict tells me that you can't go wrong by trying to protect a bunch of kids.
 

Tribute

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
919
Given that B3 seems to result in "Vahishta uses the distraction Jing provides to make a break for it and then rushes Guo Fu" it's looking significantly less appealing. I am strongly considering revising my vote.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
I just realized that us and Qilin have the perfect way to open the doors, so to speak: if that spidersilk was strong enough to hold Yang Xue, even if for just a while, it can hold Guo Fu as well.
So, here's my plan:
Assist the runts in D2.
Send said runts to help out Yunzi. She is in a completely tied match with the Huehueshan Twins right now, "about a dozen" people will provide her with a distraction, no matter how skilled/unskilled they are, and then they can make a break for the exit together. If they want to throw their lives away for their Holy Maiden, then they can use such fanatical loyalty directly.
Meanwhile, as they are getting her, us and Qilin go restrain Guo Fu with a cubic shitton of steel silk, if it worked for the physical monster Yang Xue (even Jing at STR 9 isn't as strong as him), it will definitely work for Guo Fu, and we can finally get this train rolling.
When Yunzi starts running, Vahista won't need to stick around either, so mission accomplished.

GreyViper, Ifeex, TOME, bros, can you be persuaded to flop to such a D2A? A much better way of ending this conflict than "lol, beat up everyone."
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Step-by-step basis: first,we do D2a, then we proceed from there. The other battles are static enough that we can reliably say they won't change too much without our meddling.
 

treave

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
Well, uh, that certainly isn't what Jing is going to tell them to do if he's going to the trouble of bailing them out. They won't magically become more competent on the spot just because he saves them once. How do you expect them to get to Yunzi without falling prey to the other orthodox fighters on the way?
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
There is no way they are getting through 100+ pugilists. We must get them to the passage with Guo Fu.

The battles aren't static - if you do not interfere in his fight, Vahista will win and pull Yunzi out, probably freeing the passage in the process.

Now, the Saint might spice things a bit, but it should help us more than it would hamper us.
 

Nevill

Arcane
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Messages
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
No way.

In a battle with someone as resilient as him, where there is no killing intent from the other side (and their objective is not to kill him - it is to get away), I don't think it is actually possible to accidentally kill him. Wound him? Maybe. But if Yao could patch us up after falling off a cliff on sharp rocks, I bet Cao'er would be able to fix him in no time.

Though I actually doubt he would get hurt at all.

And really, a bunch of youths that were being picked on by some noname disciples, killing Guo Fu in D? That's not even funny.

treave, when will the votes close?
 

ScubaV

Prophet
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
1,022
Bros I have an alternative idea. What if we went C2A to occupy Guo Fu and allow the Cult to escape? He is strong enough to not get seriously hurt and he may not want to be partly responsible for the slaughter in D, but he feels obligated to follow orders. I think he would understand once we had a chance to explain. It should get us some Yunzi points though the orthodox sects would be pissed, possibly including Wudang.
 

Nevill

Arcane
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Messages
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
This does not prevent the slaughter of the younger cultists, however, and... well, the cultists might not want to leave without Yunzi.

It's just that people around him are not in immediate danger, and neither is he.
 

Azira

Arcane
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Copenhagen, Denmark
Codex 2012
Anyone have a tally? I haven't seen new votes nor flops posted for a while. Might be because I only skim the thread when there's too much DISCUSS going on.

I just want the CYOA to advance is what I'm trying to say. ;)
 

Rex Feral

Prophet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
1,300
If we go with D2 why not do it D2B. I mean what help could the sword saint offer us in this choice? He's a wild card and he could do more harm than good.

Remind me what do we need him for?
 

Nevill

Arcane
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Messages
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Rex Feral said:
He's a wild card and he could do more harm than good.
What harm can he do, though? I can't think of any.

Rex Feral said:
Remind me what do we need him for?
The fight is one-sided for now. Everything that stops the fights minimizes casualties. Since he is not killing people, it is better to have him helping us.

Hell, if he handles Guo Fu while we are busy with the kids, it would be the best case scenario.
 

TOME

Cuckmaster General
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
1,820
I don't like D2A because we would ask the sword saint to help the cult, not stop the fight. But if you can make it so that Jing goes to save the youths with D2, and asks the saint go with 3, beating everyone.
 

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