[LP CYOA] Epic

[Esquilax]

TOME, Ean's telepathy allowed him to pick out which soldiers would be most effective in serving under him:

During the journey, guided by the voices, you made great improvements to the military organization and logistics of the army. By the time you reached the sands of Egypt with the mighty Sumerian host, all five thousand of the men were well fed and disciplined. Your ability to read other people allowed you to group the men and appoint leaders efficiently to ensure there was little conflict within the army.

First, we should ask why Runikylos is here to begin with. I believe the real reason he's here is because he knows that the madman presents the biggest threat to the stability of the Empire, so he wants to off him the quickest. He also knows that Dio is a power-hungry dick who could present problems of his own, so he wants to get rid of the madman while simultaneously marginalizing Dio. Getting rid of the Watchers loyal to us is one way of going about it, ensuring that Ban is taken out along with the madman is another. So he wants to limit our ability to maneuver, I think. Too bad we didn't can't notice anything about his intentions from our telepathy.

There are a few advantages to taking command, though. It'll give us more control, and more importantly, we look like a total badass at this point with our missing eye and burns, so I don't think that we'll have trouble gaining respect from those under us, despite our lack of experience. The men are demoralized at this point, but I believe that Dio's presence might instill some hope in them.

Also, I really think that Dio's telepathy will allow him to lead more effectively. However, it's important to note that I think he should avoid leading from the front. Ean had the gift of being able to do both things at once, but Dio doesn't really have the battle skill to pull it off, honestly.

treave, how is Ban at tactics? From what you mentioned in a previous update, the madman has a very sharp military mind. I'm getting the impression that while Ban is a badass in actual combat, he isn't really that great at the tactical side of things. Oh, and another thing:

The first to volunteer were Watchers, and they were all driven insane by the surgery.

I'm almost positive that the madman was a former Watcher. I think that's how he knows everything.

 

[Baltika9]

Or, RK doesn't expect Dio, or Ban for that matter, to return, basically sending him on a suicide mission.

Too bad for him, we played ME2.

 

[treave]

Ban is great at actual fighting and improvising tactics on the fly, but he doesn't have the inclination for grand strategy, nor does he have the rank for it. He's still nominally a squad leader, not an officer commanding a regiment. The Empire has not been really challenged in a war for some time so its military thinking is a bit dull.

 

[Kipeci]

A.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

A

 

[Stinkanator]

A

 

[Storyfag]

Let's roll with A.

 

[TOME]

Do we know if the madman has any ties to the Rus tribes? He will be extremely dangerous if he manages to unite the tribes under one leader. And how are the tribes armed?

 

[Stygian Lurker]

A

 

[treave]

Chapter 7.17: Fort Euphraxes

Taking command, you reviewed what you knew of the military aspects of both the tribes and the Empire. A population census had never been performed on the tribes of Rus, as the nomads were not under Shinar rule and obviously would not sit still for some Shinari scholar to take their numbers. Estimates of their population, however, range anywhere from 700,000 to more than a million. The number of fighting men gathered by the Madman of Anatolia, on the other hand, was entirely unknown due to the hit-and-run tactics the tribes had employed. Numerically they did not seem to be more plentiful than the 60,000 men from the Empire that had marched in, but no one knew for sure. The tribes fought from horseback with bow and arrow, relying mainly on lightly armored skirmishers for infantry. They were skilled with the horse, and the Hittites often spoke of the Rus tribes as having their children born in the saddle.

The Empire, on the other hand, had embraced a dualistic doctrine of steel and mobility. Their footmen were heavily armoured, influenced by the traditional steel wall of men that had been used to defend against the Terasphagos. There had been no pressing need to change even after the Terasphagos stopped their attacks. These were supported by longbowmen, operating from behind the lines of steel that slowly encroached upon the enemy. Their cavalry divisions, however, were divided into horseback lancers and chariots, which had never fallen out of favour especially amongst the Imperial Army and the southern nations. Though the empire employed a variety of chariot designs, the most common patterns served as armoured, mobile platforms for bowmen - or more recently, musketeers, though those were rare as few horses were trained for the sound of gunfire. Each squad of ten men was usually organized together according to their specialties; ten archers, or ten footmen, or ten charioteers. A regiment would usually consist of a mix of these squads, with regiment officers expected to be able to utilize the weapons at their disposal to the fullest.

Meanwhile, to no one's surprise, Garsu was extremely unhappy at losing his position of command. It took all of your flattery just to manage to soothe his displeasure. Though you would rather do without him, he was still the most competent officer around; your initial staff meeting with the other 19 officers currently left at the fort had informed you of the fact that they were all, to the last man, less competent than Garsu. They were content following their orders, preferably in as cushy a tent as possible far from the frontlines, and when it came to matters of organization they could not be relied upon to coordinate with other regiments. As you settled into your new position as a commanding officer of the Imperial Army, you found that you had to rely on Garsu - who admittedly knew his way around the army better than you did - to keep things organized and running in the fort. He may be a pompous, cowardly windbag, but the man was not without merit.

You did not keep yourself idle, of course. You could tell that Garsu was just waiting for a chance. Right now you kept yourself at the top by royal approval and sheer bravado, but if you slipped up he would attempt to take control of the fort himself. The man clearly did not want to be here another single minute if he could help it, but out of pride he would not desert. However, he and his men had become a persistent source of negativity in the fort and sooner or later he would have to go. In the meantime, you picked up as much knowledge as you could of the practicalities of running an army. It irked you to have to spend so much time down in the dirt with the common soldiers, but your little encounter in Skane has left you quite a bit more tolerant of dirt, grime and pain. You looked far worse than you felt and your scars gave you a hardened appearance which apparently endeared you to the grunts.

The squad officers were made up of a mix of commoners and minor nobles who had not obtained the grades to overcome their social ranking. Though they were less educated than the regiment officers, spending time with them was far more educational - the regimental officers had all scored lower than you in their Academy examinations after all, and their practical knowledge was far outstripped by that of the squad officers.

Learning was not all you did while with the grunts; you also identified those who were loyal to the Empire, those who were less so, those who would be willing to follow competent orders, and those who you thought you could turn into your faithful lackeys. Though there were about 30,000 men in and around the fort at present - which had practically become a town, with more than half the number of armed men in camp followers - there were only 20 regiments. Each of the regiments were over-staffed due to the lack of nobles to lead new regiments. Garsu had not made any field promotions amongst the minor nobles of the squad officers during his time in command, as he had been expecting to be able to return to Shinar soon, not stuck as the second-in-command to some scarred, inexperienced noble greenhorn. Furthermore, the regiment officers appeared to be enjoying the prestige of commanding a larger than usual number.

***

A. You make field promotions based on merit, creating 10 new regiments led by the best men that you can find regardless of whether they are noble or commoner. Victory is more important than politics, because if you are victorious here by defeating the tribes and the madman, glory and power will follow naturally.

B. You promote only the lesser nobles to command of the new regiments, leaving them in your debt. Commoners have less power in the politics of the Empire, and it makes no sense to curry too much favour with them. These steppes are a lost cause and you plan to hang around only long enough to get Ban and retreat, not to teach the tribes a lesson.

C. You do not make any changes, pleasing the current officers in charge of the regiments. They are more powerful nobles, and you recognize at least 3 of them have a seat on the Council of Nobles including Garsu. It would be wise to placate them as much as you can.

***

Barely a week into your command, you get news of tribal troop movement. Though their full number was unknown, reports from survivors of attempts to break through the blockade of Fort Tigrien, as well as knowledge about which tribes were in the area gave you an estimated enemy number of about 50,000 men. Now, you had received notice that 40,000 tribesmen were preparing to assault the town of Odessa, a week's march southwest of your position. It was unlikely that a new horde of tribes had migrated into the region from the north and the east, and so you could only conclude that most of the enemy controlling the way to Tigrien had moved on. There had been no news from Fort Tigrien in weeks, however, and you are not sure as to the strength of numbers they still possessed.

Still, why would they attack Odessa? It was a town in actual Imperial territory, and the tribes had only ever raided settlements established by Imperial colonists thus far.

***

A. You send only a thousand men towards Odessa and send 25,000 men towards Fort Tigrien. Now that the enemy forces on the path were reduced, you should be able to break through and rescue the men still remaining at the fort.

B. You send 25,000 men to attack the tribesmen heading for Odessa. Having the tribes move that far into Imperial territory can only be a bad thing, creating more panic in the Empire. A thousand men will be sent to attempt to break the blockade.

C. You divide your forces, sending 13,000 men each to Odessa and Fort Tigrien. There is no reason why you cannot do both at once.

D. You wait, sending only a token force of a thousand men out to each of the locations in order to scout out the situation more cautiously.

***

This could be a good chance to get rid of Garsu by sending him on a mission instead of letting him cower within the fort. You could also grab some glory for yourself by leading a force of your own.

A. You go wherever Garsu is sent, planning to deal with him permanently.
B. You go where you do not send Garsu; with luck battle will take care of him by itself.
C. You do not go anywhere, staying in the fort.

1. You send Garsu to Odessa
2. You send Garsu to Fort Tigrien

 

[Baltika9]

First off, we need to determine our ultimate goal here: do we want to get Ban, the Madman, or both(the problem here is that Dio is not in his best shape)?
I'm pretty sure that the squidfucker is leading the charge on Odessa, trying to get his hands on another artifact/info/whatever it is he's after. Remember the raid on Ankida?

The success of the nameless madman’s raid had far more reaching effects than anyone had predicted. That night had seen the death of hundreds and the total ransack of the Imperial Museum by the cultists.

He's after something.
Besides that, after General Failure, the troops need as much a morale boost as they can get, so we should promote on merit and not sit on our ass. This should allow us to multitask.

 

[Baltika9]

Their cavalry divisions, however, were divided into horseback lancers and chariots, which had never fallen out of favour especially amongst the Imperial Army and the southern nations.

Really? Still using chariots?

The Empire has not been really challenged in a war for some time so its military thinking is a bit dull.

God Emperor, the Empire really did turn into :patriot:, huh?

 

[oscar]

We could do a Julius Caesar here and rely on our popularity with the troops as a path to political power. 'The two war heroes and saviours of the Empire: Dio and Ban '

 

[treave]

Don't diss the Shinar chariots yet, think of them as serving the function of an armored personnel vehicle, except horse-drawn. Improvements in suspension and wheel & axle technology mean that they are more stable for ranged weaponry even at fast speeds, and have a far better turning radius than their 3000 year-old brethren, though the weight of the armour means that in terms of speed they aren't as fast as single riders. Instead of training horseback archers, the Empire relies on having their bowmen hop on the chariot and do their thing, which means less training is needed. They can focus on just aiming and firing at the target while the charioteer steers.

Now someone just needs to get to work on a steam engine and strap it to one.

 

[Esquilax]

First, we need to determine our goal here, as Baltika9 said: do we settle on getting our boy out of there, or do we want to go for the gold and attempt to defeat the Madman and rescue Ban? Considering we already know the most important things that the madman has learned, maybe getting bogged down here isn't the best idea. It's important to note that our initial reason in coming here was to get Ban and then proceed to New Athens. Fighting a war wasn't what we initially signed up for. This situation has Vietnam written all over it, and perhaps retreating is the best thing to do - as we know, there are more important things at play here than petty power grabs.

However, I acknowledge that things probably aren't that simple because Ban almost certainly wants to take out the madman after having failed at it already. He's emotionally invested in the situation, so I think talking him out of catching him will be a little hard, though not impossible. Also, I'm curious to find out why the madman didn't just head to New Athens after determining Ean's location at last. I'm quite certain he discovered Ean's whereabouts after his raid on Ankida, so it seems odd that he went to Rus instead of directly going to New Athens.

I think it's important to note that the madman is extremely unpredictable, so it's possible that this trip into Odessa is just one big ruse. There are a few things that are a serious cause for concern:

The invading army had been hassled every step of the way by tribal raiders, who struck in the deep of the night and melted away into the shadows before the Imperials could retaliate. In order to defend themselves better, the Imperials had split up into and established three forts from where they could sally forth to conduct their campaign. You were no military man, but even you saw the folly in this decision. Holing up only allowed the tribes to operate with even more impunity. The Shinari soldiers were reliant on caravans from Skane and Hatti to keep their expedition supplied. These soon became the target of the tribes, who knew the lay of the land far better and could apparently launch attacks from nowhere with little notice. Within weeks, Fort Nileia had fallen and Fort Tigrien isolated to the north.
...
The tribes fought from horseback with bow and arrow, relying mainly on lightly armored skirmishers for infantry. They were skilled with the horse, and the Hittites often spoke of the Rus tribes as having their children born in the saddle.

The Empire, on the other hand, had embraced a dualistic doctrine of steel and mobility. Their footmen were heavily armoured, influenced by the traditional steel wall of men that had been used to defend against the Terasphagos. There had been no pressing need to change even after the Terasphagos stopped their attacks. These were supported by longbowmen, operating from behind the lines of steel that slowly encroached upon the enemy. Their cavalry divisions, however, were divided into horseback lancers and chariots, which had never fallen out of favour especially amongst the Imperial Army and the southern nations.

treave, how have our steel wall tactics fared against the Rus? Or for that matter, our APC's (Armored Personnel Chariots)? I'm guessing fairly poorly, and the tribesmen often rely on flanking tactics and superior mobility to neutralize our shield walls. We are definitely way, way behind the Rus in terms of innovative thinking. We're in a bit of a Catch-22, it seems: if we are out in the open, the Rus' advantage on home turf and their mobility allows them to wear us down, but if we hole up, that makes things even worse and we starve to death. I don't enough about military tactics and history, but do you bros see any solution to this dilemma?

Anyways, I see two ways of resolving this situation:

Rescue Ban, Get out of this Shithole
B) Ensures that we don't have idiots in charge, things are better organized and avoids stepping on too many toes. We only need people competent enough to ensure that Ban and the men of Fort Tigrien are saved. It'll ruffle a few feathers, but it'll also get the job done more efficiently.
A) Obviously.
B1) While we rescue Ban and use our telepathy to keep us appraised of any ambushes along the way to Tigrien. Sitting back in our fort might work as well, but with 25,000 men, we should be okay.

Glory! ... Or Ignominious Defeat
A) Best people possible for the job. However, we need to be aware of the drawbacks here - a few nobles will begin moving against us, and I am fairly sure that we may even have to deal with an assassination attempt or two. These guys came here for a cushy campaign and the possibility of a promotion down the line: getting bogged down in Rus will inspire mutiny for sure.
A/D) Wow, this is a tough one. I can't see why the madman would attack Odessa: Ean was never in the area, so I'm not sure how Odessa relates back to him. treave, Fenrir didn't mention this, but I believe it would make sense: we know Ean's body is in New Athens, but where did the Watchers dig it up from?

More than five hundred years ago, that branch of Watchers managed to obtain the body of what they think is the First Emperor, though Aodh found that records of that event were scant. It was kept a secret from all but the highest echelons of their organization.
...
It is in a vault in New Athens, having being moved there a hundred years ago when the colony was first founded. He believes that he himself is the Emperor trapped in another body, and he will be able to regain his own form once he makes physical contact with the sleeping Emperor."

I understand that this might be something way may not know if it was something the madman learned prior to gaining powers. If Odessa was the place where Ean was first found, or a place where his body was at for a period of time before ending up in New Athens, then going there makes sense. However, I have a feeling that this is a tactical feint from the madman - if Odessa is unrelated to Ean, then I believe that he's trying to bait us into a trap.

In any case, splitting our forces seems like a very bad idea. Avoid C. We'll get torn up like this, and the fact that we're given a choice like this is indication of Dio's inexperience on the battlefield, IMO.

A2) We really need to survey the situation in Odessa ourselves, with a bunch of soldiers loyal to us, and then immediately head back. Taking out Garsu shouldn't be a problem that way. On the other hand, I could also go for B2 or B1 to get him out of the picture.

 

[Azira]

Now someone just needs to get to work on a steam engine and strap it to one.

Steamtank? With marksmen riding inside?

 

[oscar]

AAB1

Rescuing our friend/pawn Ban and the encircled troops is our priority. If the Odessa threat turns out to be serious we can smash them with our combined force that will be bolstered by the 30,000 soldiers tied down at Tigrien.

 

[oscar]

I also get the feeling that the 'Russians' of this time are pretty much Cossacks. Their mobility means that we should force them to react to us rather than play catch up with every detachment they send off to rape and pillage. I can't really see these guys committing to a direct head-on battle, but rather raiding and attacking our supply lines and generally being major pains in the backside (as Cossacks historically were to fight against).

This probably isn't going to be some glorious campaign and has a lot of hallmarks for being a resource and manpower sink for bugger all gain to the Empire.

 

[treave]

treave, how have our steel wall tactics fared against the Rus? Or for that matter, our APC's (Armored Personnel Chariots)? I'm guessing fairly poorly, and the tribesmen often rely on flanking tactics and superior mobility to neutralize our shield walls. We are definitely way, way behind the Rus in terms of innovative thinking. We're in a bit of a Catch-22, it seems: if we are out in the open, the Rus' advantage on home turf and their mobility allows them to wear us down, but if we hole up, that makes things even worse and we starve to death. I don't enough about military tactics and history, but do you bros see any solution to this dilemma?

The infantry fare poorly, the chariots better provided there's enough open ground and flat terrain to roll around in. They are still unable to outmaneuver the enemy horsemen then, but at least they wouldn't be sitting ducks like infantry are, and the bowmen outrange the horse archers and have better accuracy. The tribes have the distinct advantage in mobility but because of the disparity in armour and weapons quality their bows often do nothing more than score wounding hits. Of course, given the era, this could actually be a downside for the injured army, with increasing amounts of wounded to take care of.

Deaths in battle thus far have been low, but the organization of the army and the way orders are given out and received necessitates that the commanding officers of the squad or the regiment are bearing brightly coloured flags with brightly painted armour (by regulation, though certain smarter officers try to ignore it as best as they can without affecting the coordination of the whole army), and this tends to attract the attention of the nomads...

I wouldn't say that the Empire is way behind the Rus in innovation, it's just that culturally the horse tribes are more suited to fighting this way. They wouldn't be able to launch a war of conquest and occupation against a significant power, which is what the Empire's troops train for.

Regarding where they found Ean, no, none of the people designated in the choice knows about it.

I can't really see these guys committing to a direct head-on battle, but rather raiding and attacking our supply lines and generally being major pains in the backside.

Yes, this is basically what they have been doing thus far ever since the Imperial army stepped in.

 

[oscar]

The best way to 'solve' this situation is pretty much do what OTL Russians did. Bribe them into raiding pretty much everyone but us and slowly incorporate them into our military (they give us military service as excellent light cavalry/scouts in return for autonomy).

 

[Baltika9]

In any case, splitting our forces seems like a very bad idea. Avoid C. We'll get torn up like this, and the fact that we're given a choice like this is indication of Dio's inexperience on the battlefield, IMO.

I think there's more merit to the idea than you think: we could send half the troops to garrison and defend Odessa just to buy us some time, while the other half bails out Ban's Band of Brothers under our command. This will work well with 1A.
But, more to the point, I'd rather we get to talk to the Madman and, if he cooperates, find out why he didn't go to Iceland yet(something's holding him back. Maybe he's raiding Odessa for a ship?) and bring him with us up there, since he's the most knowledgeable and wants to sacrifice his body to bring back the Emperor. Ean is the ultimate goal, though.

Actually, as I'm typing this, I'm leaning more towards ABA1: Send our most elite and hard-ass troops to bail Ban(this is not a siege or epic battle, just hit hard, get the boys outta there and bring them back to us) and take the rest with us to fight the Rus' tribes: whatever it is they want from there, I'm not sure I'm too keen on giving it to them just like that; and besides which, letting Odessa be raided unpunished will not stabilize the situation back home.

Rescuing our friend/pawn Ban and the encircled troops is our priority. If the Odessa threat turns out to be serious we can smash them with our combined force that will be bolstered by the 30,000 soldiers tied down at Tigrien.

No one knows how many are left.

 

[TOME]

ABB2

There should be at least 20000 men in Fort Tigrien and if they see our 1000 troops getting through to them, they'll know they can break through on their own. Letting Odessa burn is not an option. It will create panic everywhere and people will lose faith in the Emperor, thus giving cults more power.

If we send Garsu to Odessa only with 1000 men, his pride is not going to stop him and he'll probably desert and the men along him. But if we send more troops with him, he should be able to protect Odessa. The question is, will he return after the threat is over or stay comfortable inside Odessa? And if we send him to Fort Tigrien, he is going to have even more negative effect on morale. But still, he is our best officer and he should lead the other group.

Now that I think about it more, I might flop to ABA1. Taking Garsu to organize 13000 men might be smart move and it would give a morale boost to the other group heading to Fort Tigrien. But who would lead the other group?

 

[Tigranes]

I don't think it's a lost cause, militarily. It seems clear that in any close combat we would win hands-down, and we just need to make sure we're never chasing the horse archers and breaking formation. The fact that our bowmen are actually superior in accuracy and range is crucial. We might be helpless against their hit and run tactics, but that really is all they can do, as well, which means, for example, they can't in the last instance stop us reaching Tigrien, or overwhelm Odessa (as long as it's not a 10:1 numbers or something).

I would point you all to the Battle of Arsuf in the Third Crusade; outnumbered and having to march down the desert coast, they knew what was critical was to always keep formation, never go running after the enemy, shoot them down with our own bowmen if they come close, protect the rear and the horses with infantry. In the end Saladin is forced to a pitched battle which predictably does not go well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Arsuf

Now, I think our goal should be get Ban, do some heroics, move on. Recovering the dead and alive at Tigrien, and Ban the war hero, in itself would net us enough military street cred to last a decade, or at least another war post. Trying to actually defeat the tribes is foolish. What this means is that we need to focus on Tigrien and we need to go there ourselves. So either AAA2 or AAB1. We go to Tigrien, Garsu can come or not, and we recruit the best men possible for the job.

Whatever we do though, I think 1A is absolutely critical. We need good men to win. The way the army works, if you win battles, then you're immune to everything; if you don't win, you're vulnerable to everything. What we need to do is get any kind of encouraging result under our belt to win the men's confidence, and that makes any kind of mutiny or assassination a lot harder. We have to show we can lead them to victory and that makes all the difference - and to do that we need the best men. There's no other choice here.

 

[Baltika9]

Whatever we do though, I think 1A is absolutely critical. We need good men to win. The way the army works, if you win battles, then you're immune to everything; if you don't win, you're vulnerable to everything. What we need to do is get any kind of encouraging result under our belt to win the men's confidence, and that makes any kind of mutiny or assassination a lot harder. We have to show we can lead them to victory and that makes all the difference - and to do that we need the best men. There's no other choice here.

I agree. Couple it with the fact that the troops already respect Dio

You looked far worse than you felt and your scars gave you a hardened appearance which apparently endeared you to the grunts.

making meritorious promotions and getting involved on the battlefield with them will raise us to Big Papa General with them and the old command won't be able to do much to us. And if we bring back Ban to them, well, we will be in good.

You know, maybe taking a small strike force with us to get Ban out and leave Odessa's defense in the hands of the newly promoted is the way to go here? Get rid of the old commanders too, on the way(in war, sacrifices have to be made, these brave men just decided to do it now, rather than later). OR maybe we should split our forces? Odessa's walls will allow half our men to defend the city, while the 13k that go with us will give us a critical operational success?

Edit: on a side note, I think the Madman is raiding Odessa to steal a ship, and the tribes are simply his mercs that work for plunder and booty(ies). Iceland is way over there, across the sea. Why not steal it on the Baltic coast, then, though?

 

[GreyViper]

AAA2 Sounds good.