[LP CYOA] Epic

[Baltika9]

treave: Just so I'm clear, the troops we send to Odessa will be garrisoning and defending the city, or directly engaging the tribesmen as soon as they see 'em?
What's the general morale of our men?

 

[TOME]

Nobody is going to remember saving Ban if we let an imperial city burn under our watch. And it would make all future political advances very hard. So 2A and 2D are out. 13k imperial soldier vs 40k tribesmen could work but the odds don't look that good without good commanders.

 

[Baltika9]

Nobody is going to remember saving Ban if we let an imperial city burn under our watch. And it would make all future political advances very hard. So 2A and 2D are out. 13k imperial soldier vs 40k tribesmen could work but the odds don't look that good without good commanders.

I was thinking more along the lines of "garrison Odessa->save Ban and his men->go to Odessa with Ban." And as for the commanders, that's what 1A is there for.

 

[TOME]

I was thinking more along the lines of "garrison Odessa->save Ban and his men->go to Odessa with Ban." And as for the commanders, that's what 1A is there for.

That's what I'm thinking too. Unfortunately all the others are voting 2A.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

BAB1 - No distractions. Garsu and the 1000 men at Odessa will die by the hand of the madman's tribes and we'll be free to take Ban (plus a few soldiers from our current force who are loyal to us) to Ean's burial site.

 

[Stinkanator]

ACB1
the only thing i'm iffy on is how many troops to send to Odessa. what is the garrison there? and of course would Garsu arrive before or after the tribes?

 

[treave]

Odessa is a thriving, relatively large town with a population of about 65,000. It is not walled because it is deep enough in Imperial territory that it has never been raided by the tribes, nor did its founders feel any need to do so. There are actually other towns closer to the border that would be easier pickings. Garrison consists of about a thousand men, and if you knew when exactly your troops would arrive and if they would do so before or after the enemy, you would be a very prescient strategist. Which you are not. None of the men in the fort are.

The aim of sending the men to Odessa would be to try and distract or intercept the tribesmen before they reach the town, but whether that is successful is something you won't know until you try it.

 

[Baltika9]

treave, more questions: how's morale, what's the general opinion on Gursu by grunts, NCO's and officers?
What about Dio(more specifics)
Is Odessa a large port city, do we have any info on the ships in harbor?

 

[TOME]

So either the info is incorrect or there is something in Odessa that the madman is after.

 

[treave]

treave, more questions: how's morale, what's the general opinion on Gursu by grunts, NCO's and officers?
What about Dio(more specifics)
Is Odessa a large port city, do we have any info on the ships in harbor?

Nothing notable.

It's not a city, just a town. The boats there are made to travel within the Black Sea and the Mediterranean.

 

[Esquilax]

Baltika9, the madman isn't stealing a ship. It's as you said: why bother stealing ships from Odessa, of all places? That's why I think he's trying to draw us out - Odessa is a town that isn't particularly important to the Empire strategically, nor does it seem related to Ean at all, really.

I was thinking more along the lines of "garrison Odessa->save Ban and his men->go to Odessa with Ban." And as for the commanders, that's what 1A is there for.

Not sure if it's that simple. It's been weeks since we've heard from the Fort, holding off on the rescue might mean the end of our buddy Ban if the place is starved out or overrun.

It's a question of what you value more: the city and the Empire's stability, or Ban and his usefulness to Dio. If it's one or the other, I'm going with Ban. Yeah, if Odessa gets burnt down by tribal savages, it's not good for the stability of the Empire, but remember that we came to Rus so that we could recruit Ban as muscle for whatever lies in New Athens. Admittedly, we also came to find out what was stopping the madman from going to there directly after finding out where Ean's body was located, but that's simply a bonus.

treave, were there roughly 30,000 men at Fort Tigrien before it got isolated (since the update mentioned that we came with a force of 60,000 originally)? I'm curious as to whether we could have part of our forces hold the town while the other half breaks the blockade and frees the remaining forces held down in the Fort. As long as the force of 13,000 at Odessa manages to survive until reinforcements arrive, it might be able to work. I still am not sure I like it because Odessa doesn't have walls, however.

One thing though, I actually believe that the Rus likely outnumber us significantly more than is believed:

The Shinari soldiers were reliant on caravans from Skane and Hatti to keep their expedition supplied. These soon became the target of the tribes, who knew the lay of the land far better and could apparently launch attacks from nowhere with little notice. Within weeks, Fort Nileia had fallen and Fort Tigrien isolated to the north.
...
A population census had never been performed on the tribes of Rus, as the nomads were not under Shinar rule and obviously would not sit still for some Shinari scholar to take their numbers. Estimates of their population, however, range anywhere from 700,000 to more than a million. The number of fighting men gathered by the Madman of Anatolia, on the other hand, was entirely unknown due to the hit-and-run tactics the tribes had employed. Numerically they did not seem to be more plentiful than the 60,000 men from the Empire that had marched in, but no one knew for sure.

The madman has a few tricks up his sleeve, I'm sure of it. Something about all of this just seems off: the madman's hit-and-run strategy had clearly been working and he was knocking off Imperial strongholds one by one, so it doesn't make much sense to me why his forces would bail to take a city when he's already got the Shinari forces isolated. I think he definitely has reserves: this is a man who was able to establish a large and very aggressive cult in the heart of the Empire itself, and I think he's done the same here. So I believe that we'll encounter a ton of resistance no matter where we go.

Anyways, it's also clear to me that if you want to even attempt to save both Odessa and rescue Ban at the Fort, you shouldn't try to take Garsu out. He's the closest thing we have to a competent field commander here, so if we want to do everything at once, we can't worry about trying to take him out. To minimize conflict, the soldiers loyal to him should be segregated from our own. So, I would imagine something like this:

A) Competency is crucial.

C) Splitting our forces will probably result in spreading ourselves too thin, but that's what you have to do if you want to do everything at once.

B1) Garsu holds Odessa while Diogenes breaks the blockade, links up with the Fort's survivors, then makes his way towards Odessa. Giving Garsu only 1,000 men is a clear signal to him that we want him dead, but if we give him an actually substantial force, he won't really be up in arms about it. The downside is that we probably will lose some prestige by not defending the city ourselves, but I believe that the respect we'll gain from our men will offset that. Furthermore, perhaps if we're smart, we can come in and save the day and take all the credit a la Tywin Lannister at the Battle of Blackwater.

The reason I don't want Diogenes holding Odessa is because I don't trust Garsu to not throw us under the bus and allow us to die so that he can go back home. This guy clearly thinks this is all a waste of time, and if we're holding Odessa with a meager force, I don't want to be at his mercy.

Also, unrelated question, treave: does the religion of Ean have any holy books or holy sites a la Jerusalem or Mecca? Considering the investment Ean put into education at the start of the Empire, it would make sense that someone would have wrote some sort of mythical holy book related to the life of Ean. And I could totally see places like Heliopolis, Tjaru, Babylon, and the Great Wall at Korinthos holding some sort of religious significance.

Voting ACB1 ADA1 for now.

 

[Baltika9]

@Esqquilax, I would support your plan. There's just one big "however" here:

B1) Garsu holds Odessa while Diogenes breaks the blockade, links up with the Fort's survivors, then makes his way towards Odessa. Giving Garsu only 1,000 men is a clear signal to him that we want him dead, but if we give him an actually substantial force, he won't really be up in arms about it. The downside is that we probably will lose some prestige by not defending the city ourselves, but I believe that the respect we'll gain from our men will offset that. Furthermore, perhaps if we're smart, we can come in and save the day and take all the credit a la Tywin Lannister at the Battle of Blackwater.

VS

Odessa is a thriving, relatively large town with a population of about 65,000. It is not walled because it is deep enough in Imperial territory that it has never been raided by the tribes, nor did its founders feel any need to do so. There are actually other towns closer to the border that would be easier pickings. Garrison consists of about a thousand men, and if you knew when exactly your troops would arrive and if they would do so before or after the enemy, you would be a very prescient strategist. Which you are not. None of the men in the fort are.

The aim of sending the men to Odessa would be to try and distract or intercept the tribesmen before they reach the town, but whether that is successful is something you won't know until you try it.

From what I understand, these guys are already marching there. In effect, garrisoning the city means trying to outpace born horsemen with infantry and chariot-tanks. That doesn't really inspire optimism.

In fact, the tribes besieging Tigris are on the move to Odessa

Barely a week into your command, you get news of tribal troop movement. Though their full number was unknown, reports from survivors of attempts to break through the blockade of Fort Tigrien, as well as knowledge about which tribes were in the area gave you an estimated enemy number of about 50,000 men. Now, you had received notice that 40,000 tribesmen were preparing to assault the town of Odessa, a week's march southwest of your position. It was unlikely that a new horde of tribes had migrated into the region from the north and the east, and so you could only conclude that most of the enemy controlling the way to Tigrien had moved on. There had been no news from Fort Tigrien in weeks, however, and you are not sure as to the strength of numbers they still possessed.

All intel suggests that Tigris will be lightly guarded, if you don't count the Madman's tricks, which could really be anything.

I'm thinking that sending 25k troops to Odessa and taking an elite squad of hard-assed veterans is our best choice here. Sending a thousand men to fight forty? Don't make me laugh. Thirteen? Still too little, especially considering that we haven't been doing too well against them.

You know, even if the Madman is drawing us out, it may be to our advantage: I don't give two shits about Dio's political career, he may just be trying to capture us for whatever uses he may have for us.

As for why he didn't go to Iceland yet: I'm pretty sure it's because he couldn't find a ship that will take him there. I mean, seriously, he's in Russia and Iceland is way over there. I'm also sure the local tribes aren't that much into sailing, so he's SOL there.

Also, unrelated question, treave: does the religion of Ean have any holy books or holy sites a la Jerusalem or Mecca? Considering the investment Ean put into education at the start of the Empire, it would make sense that someone would have wrote some sort of mythical holy book related to the life of Ean. And I could totally see places like Heliopolis, Tjaru, Babylon, and the Great Wall at Korinthos holding some sort of religious significance.

And if I may add to this question: is Tjaru actually worth a damn as a fort now?

 

[Tigranes]

I think if the madman makes a proper concerted attack on Odessa then it is screwed unless we take the entire army with us; purely because of the numbers, and as Esquilax says, why would the Madman bet on attacking Odessa if he needs us NOT to send any sizable force back, when the current strategy has been working so well? The calculation only makes sense if he thinks he can win even if we split our army. In fact, he's probably counting on us splitting our army; it is the primary benefit because right now we're all holed up together. I think he wants us to split our forces and we should not do it.

I think we should just say screw it and go AAA2. Take Garsu and go to Tigrien and give ourselves the strongest force possible for our primary objective. If it was a bluff, we win; if it wasn't, then we lose Odessa, but we will probably be able to succeed in Tigrien. The Empire can take it, it's not like we're out here with the empire's entire army, and the value of saving Ban and the survivors at Tigrien should offset others' evaluation of our performance. If we split up then I strongly doubt we'd be able to save Ban and Odessa. Just seems too easy. More likely that our splitting up will be exploited; and more likely that when push comes to shove, we will be required to make a personal sacrifice to make ends meet... we've already lost an eye.

 

[treave]

treave, were there roughly 30,000 men at Fort Tigrien before it got isolated (since the update mentioned that we came with a force of 60,000 originally)?

Not accounting for the dead, the army had split up into thusly: Euphraxes 30,000, Nileia 20,000, Tigrien 10,000. Each are about three day's march from the other, with Tigrien being the deepest in Rus territory and where all the more hardcore officers and soldiers are. Most of the commanding staff were at Nileia and were probably wiped out. When Nileia fell Ban led an unknown amount of soldiers to Tigrien. Actual casualties are unknown as no one has went out to Nileia to count the bodies. It will take you about half a day's march to reach Imperial territory from Euphraxes, and from there you have roads which will speed up your travelling time to Odessa.

Also, unrelated question, treave: does the religion of Ean have any holy books or holy sites a la Jerusalem or Mecca? Considering the investment Ean put into education at the start of the Empire, it would make sense that someone would have wrote some sort of mythical holy book related to the life of Ean. And I could totally see places like Heliopolis, Tjaru, Babylon, and the Great Wall at Korinthos holding some sort of religious significance.

There's no single holy book related to his life, but plenty of stories and myths passed down through the ages. Of course from time to time scholars do make compilations of all these myths, but there's no Bible or Quran equivalent to the Shinar religion. You can think of the Emperor worship as something more akin to the Chinese Yellow Emperor - a blend of history and legend, except that Ean is worshipped as the divine progenitor of the Empire and its principles. He just is, there is no denying his existence and deeds, and you do not need his intercession to save you from some sort of damnation in this life or the next. Of course, that has been changing nowadays with the advent of the new cults that bear a more messianic flavour. The Great Wall, Crete, Olympus, Babylon, Heliopolis and Tjaru are all recorded as sites where Ean has performed his mythical deeds, but they tend to be more of pseudo-historical significance - again, mixing history with legend. There are some religious pilgrimages to the sites, but they have never been common practice even for the more devout.

And no, Tjaru has not been an important fort for thousands of years. It would've been an abandoned derelict by now if not for a few Imperial priests maintaining a shrine there.

 

[Baltika9]

You know, something about this whole situation smells, badly. Why isn't Tigrien's garrison contacting us, even though it's besiegers have apparently moved on? Are they all dead, did they perhaps move out of there? Why are the tribes raiding Odessa? Where is the Madman?
Too many unknowns, bros. Just this once, I advocate the "wait-and-see" approach: flopping to ADA1.
This conserves our strength for crisis management and gives us some situational awareness and promoting the competent underdogs, coupled with Dio's already endearing looks, will give us enough popularity, for now, to avoid a mutiny.
However, we shouldn't sit on our assess: the prime goal is Tigrien and, as mentioned above, some suspicious shit is happening over there. I think we ought to investigate while we can and off Gursu in the meanwhile.

Odessa will probably be a lost cause, but it never hurts to check it out. Maybe 'ol squidfucker is just baiting us into the open.

 

[Esquilax]

A few things have occurred to me. If we try to off Garsu by sending him into danger with only 1,000 men, the 19 other officers who want to go home and are loyal to him will definitely know that we weren't too sad to see him gone and probably sent him off to Odessa in hopes that he wouldn't come back. It'll turn a lot of the other officers against us, so we have to be extremely careful with that, especially in conjunction with a choice like 1A.

It's important to remember that Dio has telekinesis, so I think that our guy is more than capable of killing someone without anybody else tracing it back to us, especially in the heat of battle. If Garsu dies by our side in battle with a force of 24,000 men, people aren't going to suspect any foul play. If Garsu is sent on what's obviously a suicide mission and he doesn't return, the other officers will suspect foul play. If he dies fighting in battle with a force of 24,000 then it doesn't reflect so badly on us.

I also feel like maybe you bros aren't giving 1B a fair shake. Unless you're here to crush the Rus tribes and capture the madman (and I don't really see the benefit to doing that), I don't see why you'd need to rock the boat to this extent. Once we manage to free the forces at Tigrien, we'll have a force of competent officers anyways.

Anyways, I agree with Baltika9, and given the Madman's flair for unpredictable tactics, we ought to be cautious. There are a ton of unknowns out there and I'd rather avoid doing anything too rash. I'm in favour of going towards Tigrien ourselves because Dio's telepathy makes him perfect for sniffing out ambushes. Garsu is competent enough to scout out Odessa himself, I believe.

Flopping my original vote to BDB1

 

[GreyViper]

Flipfloping AAB1

 

[Baltika9]

I also feel like maybe you bros aren't giving 1B a fair shake. Unless you're here to crush the Rus tribes and capture the madman (and I don't really see the benefit to doing that), I don't see why you'd need to rock the boat to this extent. Once we manage to free the forces at Tigrien, we'll have a force of competent officers anyways.

Assuming they're still there...or alive, for that matter. And going for the perfect score is my goal here, anyways, because letting them just do whatever they want to do is bad for the Empire's stability. Remember, we didn't put down the cult in Skane and Aodh is off doing Ean-knows-what with Joan in Gallia-Britannia, so an agitated and emboldened Rus' is Bad News, especially since the Empire was pissing them off for a couple of centuries straight. These are cossacks we're talking about here. Going for the gold is what we should do. Besides, I want to capture the Madman, too, and have a heart-to-heart with him, see if he we can take him on our trip to Iceland.

It's important to remember that Dio has telekinesis, so I think that our guy is more than capable of killing someone without anybody else tracing it back to us, especially in the heat of battle. If Garsu dies by our side in battle with a force of 24,000 men, people aren't going to suspect any foul play. If Garsu is sent on what's obviously a suicide mission and he doesn't return, the other officers will suspect foul play. If he dies fighting in battle with a force of 24,000 then it doesn't reflect so badly on us.

Exactly, Dio has telekinesis, so we should take Garsu with us and engineer an accident for him(travelling through the swamp, he stumbles and falls into quicksand; travelling on a hill, wheel breaks, he falls; trees fall, he dies). I really don't see how one semi-competent, uppity and nearly-deserting officer is better than a force of hypercompetent, tough, motivated and experienced men, who will be all that much more loyal once we give them a promotion(our sexy looks are already making us the most attractive general around). If anything, I don't trust Garsu with Odessa either, if we send him with a thousand men, he may take the chance and desert.

That guy just has to be removed, the last thing we need is a shit-stirrer right now. Hence, take him with us on a scout-out to Tigris. Just send our experienced scouts, under the command of an experienced scout, to Odessa. Makes sense, no?

And on a completely unrelated note, I just had a thought about the Masters: maybe they are the beings/entities that have "mastered" their hunger, hence their name. It's just that, well, the only direct way to get power in this setting is to eat sentient beings and yet the Masters and Immortals, which are their creations, exhibit no such traits.

 

[Stygian Lurker]

BAB1

 

[Baltika9]

Tally so far, tell me if I got anything wrong:
Oscar AAB1
Tome ABB2
GreyViper BAA2
Lambchop19 BAB1
Stinkinator ADB1
Esquilax BDA2
Tigranes AAA2
Baltika9 ADA2
Stygian Lurker BAA2
Storyfag ADB1
Arpad ADB1

1A- 7
1B- 4

2A- 6
2B- 1
2D- 5

3A- 4
3B- 6

1- 5
2- 6

Which makes the winning combination AAB1: Full meritorious promotions, 25k to Tigrien and 1k to Odessa, Garsu to Tigrien, go to Odessa.

 

[Storyfag]

A. We need officers. 'nuff said.
D. I'm sure the enemy has a surprise for us. Let's not commit to battle too early.
B. Meaning, we stay at the fort. We need to personally oversee the larger part of our army, to make sure there aren't any unnecessary conflicts between freshly promoted officers and the noble ones.
1. I actually believe Garsu will be pleased - Odessa is an Imperial town firmly within Imperial territory, after all, and he wanted to retreat.

 

[Esquilax]

Guys, we really ought to rethink our choice for 2). I am fairly certain that the madman is planning something. Look at this way: the Rus attackers left Fort Tigrien right when they had it isolated and were in the process of taking it. Then we hear that the forces stationed there may (I emphasize may) have disappeared and are now in the process of occupying Odessa, a town that is insignificant and unimportant strategically, and completely unrelated to Ean, as far as both Diogenes and the madman know. Sure, Odessa is part of the Empire and an attack on it must be responded with in kind, but in the grand scheme of things, the place doesn't matter - which tells me that the madman is trying to bait us into attacking it.

At the same time, the last time that we heard from the Fort itself was weeks ago:

Barely a week into your command, you get news of tribal troop movement. Though their full number was unknown, reports from survivors of attempts to break through the blockade of Fort Tigrien, as well as knowledge about which tribes were in the area gave you an estimated enemy number of about 50,000 men. Now, you had received notice that 40,000 tribesmen were preparing to assault the town of Odessa, a week's march southwest of your position. It was unlikely that a new horde of tribes had migrated into the region from the north and the east, and so you could only conclude that most of the enemy controlling the way to Tigrien had moved on. There had been no news from Fort Tigrien in weeks, however, and you are not sure as to the strength of numbers they still possessed.

We are walking in blind against an enemy that has every single advantage against us in terms of information. Doesn't it strike any of you bros as fucking nuts to go deep into enemy territory to break the blockade at Tigrien when we haven't heard from the Fort in weeks?

I want to echo Storyfag here:

A) Competency. It might ruffle some feathers, but fuck 'em. Garsu looks to be the primary agitator here, so I think that as long as we take him out discreetly, we'll avoid any problems with those who are loyal to Gursu.

D) It's been made clear that the madman is a very cunning and unpredictable tactician. During his raid on Ankida, he demonstrated a great combination of daring, efficiency in hitting the museum, and a great ability at being elusive by escaping from Ban on two separate occasions. Then he further showed his skill by using the greater maneouverability of his horse archers and knowledge of the terrain to wear down Imperial horses. He's managed to ambush and pick apart the Imperial Army here already, and I don't think that things are going to be as simple as breaking the blockade with superior numbers and retaking the Fort.

To defeat the madman, I think you have to put yourself in his shoes. What would you do if you were in his position? I would do this:

Fighting the Imperial Army head-on is stupid. I'm going to rely on hit-and-run attacks to cripple their supply lines, then ambushes to isolate them within their Forts so that they're trapped. I'm also going to try drawing them out so that they have to react to what I do. On that note, I'm going to invade Odessa in hopes that the Empire tries to attack it. Since the city has no walls, it'll be difficult for them to defend, so we'll just cut off the supplies to force them into an ambush like we've done before. On the other hand, if they try to send reinforcements to the Fort, we'll also have an ambush ready there.

Based on that, I think that a small, competently lead force of 1,000 men will be better suited to survey the situation so that we can respond better later. treave gave us a bit of a hint here:

Deaths in battle thus far have been low, but the organization of the army and the way orders are given out and received necessitates that the commanding officers of the squad or the regiment are bearing brightly coloured flags with brightly painted armour (by regulation, though certain smarter officers try to ignore it as best as they can without affecting the coordination of the whole army), and this tends to attract the attention of the nomads...

It seems to me that the dumbasses in charge are painting a bullseye on our men whenever they're out in Rus territory. They're easily spotted and poorly led, and as a result they fall prey to ambush far more often. However, if we have a small force to scout the area led by competent officers that know how to remain inconspicuous, then we can know what the madman is really up to. Dio's telepathy will also be crucial here - he'll be able to sniff out ambushes as well as avoid enemies along the way, and if we capture a few tribesmen, we'll be able to figure out what they're really up to. Playing things recklessly and jumping into the fray will backfire horribly against someone like the madman.

B1) Storyfag's reasoning here is spot on. Though honestly, I'm not really opposed to having him with us either and taking him out discreetly.

 

[Stinkanator]

Is there anyway to start rumors about how we lost our eye? I'm sure commoners would be more willing to sacrifice themselves for a noble who 'cares' about the common people.( Did Ean's sacrifice of his hand for his king make it into the history books? I'm guessing it did not since it happened some time before the empire.) Also, what are Dio's goals regarding Ean? i wouldn't think he would want Ean to come back at all.

Also Flopping to ADB1

 

[Arpad]

ADB1

 

[Esquilax]

I think it's important to mention why I think Dio should take the risk of going scouting himself. I understand the merit in staying home in our big, cozy fort and posting on RPG Codex - it's safer. However, I think that Dio's telepathy, supplemented by good leaders who know how to coordinate shit, and a small but well-lead force will be able to decipher what the Rus tribesmen are up to far quicker than marching in recklessly will.

On the other hand, I'm also seeing the merit in AAB1. Diogenes is a telepath after all, so maybe he'd be able to sense an ambush by detecting an attacker's presence. That being said, if the madman is planning some sort of an ambush (and based on the fact that we've had no word whatsoever from the Fort in weeks, combined with the madman has apparently deciding to abandon the siege to attack Odessa, I think he is. There's something extremely suspicious about these two events - if they're gone, then why wouldn't we have heard from them?) I believe that a bunch of skilled tribesmen who really know the lay of the land will notice a force of 25,000 men marching towards Fort Tigrien long before Diogenes' telepathy notices them.

On the other hand, I think that a well-led, inconspicuous force of 1,000 could navigate the area far more effectively. We would avoid combat and try to determine troop positions. If we can set ourselves up to catch them unawares and maybe take out a few thousand tribesmen along the way, all the better. In any case, I think committing ourselves too heavily is a bad idea.