Made a new Gamasutra article: The danger of letting the gaming industry curate its own history

[Ninjerk]

I was a bit more... rude.

THe guy advocated willful ignorance self-absorbed stupidity, so IMO your reply was pretty tame compared to the right thrashing he deserved.
Also i highly doubt that those ignorant but good designers exist; at the very least, knowledge of your own field can only make you better.

And he keeps doing it:

For example, if you want to learn about Wizardry, I'd say you're better off reading the HG101 article on the series, then playing a modern descendent like Etrian Odyssey IV. Then, if you want to go further, play one of the better games in the series like Wizardry 8. I'd say this course of action would teach you more about video games and be drastically more enjoyable while also spending less time than spending hundreds of hours playing through the entire Wizardry series. Some games have aged better than others.

"Wanna know about the Gold Box games? Play Dragon Age!"

Thank god 20th century directors actually watched each others' movies instead of reading a synopsis of them. Thank god Japanese game developers played western games so they could make jRPGs for these dumbasses to sperg over. THANK GOD that engineers and physicists actually learn how to play with classical mechanics and quantum mechanics before they create a 17 mile long particle accelerator instead of just READING A FUCKING ARTICLE ABOUT IT. Maybe this Mr. Boyd thinks he could just read an article about building bridges as long as he "Just did a good job" building his.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

These people's definition of "good job" is getting a ton of clicks. Even if your article/review is a series of farts, it can be a success as long as it attracts attention.

He used 'storyfag' in a comment, momentarily forgetting he wasn't on the cockdex.

Actually, he called himself a newfag.

He could make a case for being a victim of internalized storyhomophobia, blame the gamepatriarchy and demand a public apology for the ban on twitter.

Wait, you got banned for posting this DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD: ?

Intolerant people will be sent to tolerance camps.

 

[felipepepe]

He could make a case for being a victim of internalized storyhomophobia, blame the gamepatriarchy and demand a public apology for the ban on twitter.

I'm being oppressed by the modarchy. I grew up on thirdworldia, spent my adolescent with grognards in the cesspools of the darknet. We codexers learned to insult each other since the register page. Banning me for that is an affront to my internet culture.

Also, pls donate to Patreon account.

 

[Jick Magger]

I think the obvious answer to that is "What happens when Dragon Age Origins becomes 'outdated'?" What happens when devs/journos want to know what constitutes a 'hardcore' RPG, and the most they have to go off of based on their history of games are things like Skyrim and Dragon Age: Inquisition; games that've shed so much off from the prior entries in the series that they're barely the same games? When the modern iteration is so different from games released in the same genre in the past that they are not even comparable, they can't really be used as a reference anymore because they simply do not give you an idea of what the genre is really capable of. Christ, I've got friends today who've only played Skyrim and are flabbergasted by things like how fast you can run actually used to be a skill you had to level up in prior entries.

 

[felipepepe]

Still trading blows with the Zeboyd guy:

Sorry, I was being a bit flippant.

I agree that having some background is useful. I disagree that just because a game was groundbreaking or is a classic that it needs to be played now. A lot of classics have aged very poorly and have little to offer in both entertainment & educational value.

Take King's Quest for example. I'd say the only reason to play the first game is for nostalgic purposes or to learn of history for history's sake. It was groundbreaking at the time, but by today's standards, there's minimal value to be gained from playing it as a critic, a game developer, or just a general fan of games. It's just not a very good game... and that's okay because it was the first in its genre in many ways. Now some of the later King's Quest games do interesting things that may be worth study (particularly 3, 4 & 6), but in general King's Quest is a historical curiosity and nothing more.

Classic PC RPGs are a different story in that many of the classics have things worthy of studying but they're buried beneath horrendously ugly graphics (the attempts at realism means they've aged far worse than older anime-inspired RPGs), incredibly clunky UI & control schemes, and battle systems clumsily shoehorned in from pen & paper roleplaying games (but minus the DM & roleplaying that made those systems work in their original form). Not only that, but many of these games were designed to waste the player's time - fine at the dawn of gaming, not so fine now.

I love sites like HG101 that act as primers to classic series, allowing younger players to rapidly learn about older games without having to invest hundreds of hours. The fact of the matter is that there just isn't time to play every worthwhile game out there. There isn't even enough time to play every worthwhile game in a specific genre out there unless your chosen genre is something incredibly specific like hummingbird-based shmups. The reason why I have extensive knowledge of console RPGs is because I've playing them my whole life. You could easily spend a few years just trying to play through all of the worthwhile SNES RPGs (and that time would skyrocket if you also included ones that didn't get official English releases) and that's just one genre on one specific platform. In the meantime, you'd miss out on good & worthwhile games that are getting released right now.

While I love websites like HG101, I see them as companion pieces, not replacements.

You can't understand Citizen Kane by watching a trailer or reading a review, so why games - an interactive media, for heaven's sake! - would be understandable by reading an article? They aren't.

I can write a huge essay on how System Shock 2 uses its high difficulty to create a sense of tension in the player, yet it wouldn't be the same thing as actually playing the game, feeling the lack of resources, the haunting presence of enemies, the eerie soundtrack and the sense of loneness and despair that the game conveys.

While I agree that some games are very long, just trying them out for 2 hours - the same length as an average movie - would definitely be more valuable than just reading about it. You don't make people read an article about how DOOM plays, you make them play DOOM.

If one played 2 hours of each game in a "Top 100 games of all time" list, that would take 200 hours. That's what, 6-7 months playing an hour per day? People spend way, waaaaay more time on MMOs. Just think of how many people have that much hours in Skyrim or multiplayer games like LOL, Call of Duty, Battlefield and Team Fortress 2.

Yet, somehow, asking that from game professionals is unrealistic. Grandia II is the #72 best RPG of all time in IGN's own ranking, yet the professional reviewer that wrote IGN's review for Child of Light apparently never played it.

If this is acceptable today, then we are fucking doomed in 50 years.

 

[Ninjerk]

Fight the good fight!

 

[tuluse]

Not only that, but many of these games were designed to waste the player's time - fine at the dawn of gaming, not so fine now.

Lol, modern Beth and Bio games aren't designed to waste the players time?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Not only that, but many of these games were designed to waste the player's time - fine at the dawn of gaming, not so fine now.

Lol, modern Beth and Bio games aren't designed to waste the players time?

Nope, sometimes they waste money too.

 

[felipepepe]

Not only that, but many of these games were designed to waste the player's time - fine at the dawn of gaming, not so fine now.

Lol, modern Beth and Bio games aren't designed to waste the players time?

Yeah, that comes off as bullshit when 2014 was marked by games like Destiny and Dragon Age: Inquisition...

 

[omega21]

The thing is, people doing proper critiques do exist. The guy who does Super Bunnyhop is a good example, he's actually got the right background for this shit, academically at least (he seems to be rather lacking in knowledge of old games, which isn't that surprising given his age), and understands a lot of basic things about design and has some insight to offer. But he doesn't get picked up by any sort of mainstream site that could give him clout in the industry.

The root of the problem isn't the lack of decent journalists, but the lack of a platform for them. The only platforms that exist have been bought and paid for already, and they have such a market dominance now that edging your way in is akin to trying to become a youtube star.

What sort of academic background does he have?

 

[7h30n]

The thing is, people doing proper critiques do exist. The guy who does Super Bunnyhop is a good example, he's actually got the right background for this shit, academically at least (he seems to be rather lacking in knowledge of old games, which isn't that surprising given his age), and understands a lot of basic things about design and has some insight to offer. But he doesn't get picked up by any sort of mainstream site that could give him clout in the industry.

The root of the problem isn't the lack of decent journalists, but the lack of a platform for them. The only platforms that exist have been bought and paid for already, and they have such a market dominance now that edging your way in is akin to trying to become a youtube star.

What sort of academic background does he have?

As far as I know he has a degree in journalism. He also interviewed one of his professors about ethics in journalism (as the #gamergate was starting) which is interesting to watch.

Edit: The interview I mentioned starts at somewhere around 9.00 here: http://youtu.be/mLNZFWR0Q8M

 

[octavius]

[quote from a gamer]

I've been a gamer my entire life, but I still have a hard time going back to games that were made 10-20 years ago, and it has nothing to do with the perception that they're unworthy of my time due to their age. A lot of older games just haven't aged well, and as a result are less fun to play than their modern counterparts. The author of this article is ignoring the fact that game design has developed at an extremely rapid pace over the last two decades, especially compared to other forms of media. When you're used to smooth, polished, and balanced experiences from modern games, playing something that's 20 years old is a really jarring experience. Some games still work, but a lot of them just feel low quality - because they are. Game quality has improved tremendously over the last decade, and if you take your nostalgia glasses off for a minute, you'd be forced to acknowledge that nearly all games made 20 years ago would be of an unacceptable quality to release today.

That's like something I would have written in Bizarro World.

 

[NotAGolfer]

Please help me guys, I searched all over that HG101 site but I couldn't find any real in depth pieces about the mechanics of old CRPGs on it.
The reviews certainly don't suffice. I read some articles there covering the oldies I played and they certainly are nice and informative but more as reviews. No in depth analysis that would help players, professional reviewers or aspiring game designers to learn about mechanics and nothing even remotely qualifying to replace the experience of playing them yourself.
So where are these informative articles that Boyd fella is talking about? Or did he mean Let's Plays? Some of those certainly are quite informative.

Then again it's fine with me to not be curious about older games, I don't really believe that you have to attend gaming history 101 to make games.
As MRY pointed out a clear vision and inspirations from other sources than computer games can get you quite far already and even help to make your game more unique instead of feature copypasta.
Overanalyzing games leads to


Better keep them young talents as far away from the history of decline as possible so they hopefully won't learn the wrong lessons. Just make sure they understand that the fun in games is not just constant ego stroking but overcoming challenges followed by ego stroking. Modern games somehow dropped half of the equation, but then again you gotta understand that math is hard and most people will never even understand what an equation is.

 

[omega21]

These people's definition of "good job" is getting a ton of clicks. Even if your article/review is a series of farts, it can be a success as long as it attracts attention.

Jesus christ, what the fuck was that article about?

7h30n thank you

 

[Cadmus]

Please help me guys, I searched all over that HG101 site but I couldn't find any real in depth pieces about the mechanics of old CRPGs on it.
The reviews certainly don't suffice. I read some articles there covering the oldies I played and they certainly are nice and informative but more as reviews. No in depth analysis that would help players, professional reviewers or aspiring game designers to learn about mechanics and nothing even remotely qualifying to replace the experience of playing them yourself.
So where are these informative articles that Boyd fella is talking about? Or did he mean Let's Plays? Some of those certainly are quite informative.

Then again it's fine with me to not be curious about older games, I don't really believe that you have to attend gaming history 101 to make games.
As MRY pointed out a clear vision and inspirations from other sources than computer games can get you quite far already and even help to make your game more unique instead of feature copypasta.
Overanalyzing games leads to


Better keep them young talents as far away from the history of decline as possible so they hopefully won't learn the wrong lessons. Just make sure they understand that the fun in games is not just constant ego stroking but overcoming challenges followed by ego stroking. Modern games somehow dropped half of the equation, but then again you gotta understand that math is hard and most people will never even understand what an equation is.

The are two sides to this. One is that it's crucial to be creative and also take inspiration from different real world sources and arts, the second side is that the game must work like a game, too.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Not only that, but many of these games were designed to waste the player's time - fine at the dawn of gaming, not so fine now.

Lol, modern Beth and Bio games aren't designed to waste the players time?

Linear dungeons and fast travel say no.

 

[pippin]

But they still present themselves as lenghty endeavours. Copy paste 100 dungeons which are fundamentally the same, and disguise it as "longevity".
I still don't know how people can claim DAO is a 100 hour game, since it can be beaten in 50 hours tops. And remember Oblivion had 4 types of dungeons.

 

[Ninjerk]

Not only that, but many of these games were designed to waste the player's time - fine at the dawn of gaming, not so fine now.

Lol, modern Beth and Bio games aren't designed to waste the players time?

Linear dungeons and fast travel say no.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

emoticon replies are designed to waste the codexer's time

 

[Broseph]

emoticon replies are designed to waste the codexer's time

 

[Ninjerk]

emoticon replies are designed to waste the codexer's time

 

[tuluse]

emoticon replies are designed to waste the codexer's time

 

[omega21]

emoticon replies are designed to waste the codexer's time

Spoiler

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[pippin]

 

[Machocruz]

It's spreading:

https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2015/02/21/why-video-game-history-matters/

Of course, relates it to Nintendo. It's his thing. But no platform, country, or era has been safe from The War on Truth and Past.