Magic the Gathering Arena

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[spectre]

is jumpstart going to be quick draft or... sealed only? I assume full price tag to justify inability to sell us packs? Im not sure what to think of that one

I assume it's all limited modes, so sealed, quick draft, bo3 draft, drafting with the premier himself. However, since there are no 1k shekel booster packs for it, the big question is what they'll be handing out instead,
cause the big part of the people drafts are the pack rewards.

All the known shit about it is here, for those who were couldn't find it:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-digital/mtg-arena-state-game-june-2020-06-23

Some of the relevant bits:

The Jumpstart play experience on MTG Arena will be part of a Limited event (e.g. Draft/Sealed using themed boosters) and will include over 500+ cards.

In addition to Jumpstart themed boosters (only available as part of the event), individual cards can also be crafted using Wildcards.

That's supposedly 37 new cards for Historic out of 500. I think I'll run a few drafts and see how it goes. Mostly doing it to get the basic lands, then just wildcard the rest.
Not sure if you can wildcard basic lands. Plenty of reprinted chaff with not new art otherwise, so I'm not planning on investing too much into drafting this.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Thac0]

I neeed the jumpstart lands. There is some crazy shit in there, I love how many liberties they are taking.
https://mythicspoiler.com/j21/land.html
My fav lands the forests arent even the best of the bunch, the plains are off the charts. Need that angel land, shield land and unicorn land.

Btw anyone here having success with stompy? Scavenging Ooze is such a house in a deck that was lacking in 2 drops, I think its going somewhere.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[spectre]

Btw anyone here having success with stompy? Scavenging Ooze is such a house in a deck that was lacking in 2 drops, I think its going somewhere.

Perhaps by "going somewhere" you mean "functionally replaced mono-red" as the go to aggro?

I don't believe mono green really needed a dedicated 2 drop that badly, you had Wildborn Preserver, Destiny Spinner, Growth Chamber Guardians, Syr Faren Hengehammer, Barkhide Trolls, Kraul Harpooners and
even Paradise druids.
Obviously, what you want is good synergy with the turn 1 Pelt Collector and Wildwood Tracker and something to mutate in a Gemrazer on turn three.
That said, Ooze is great, eating entire graveyards worth of uros, cats and cycling and eats up all your mana rather nicely.
As for now, I think the card that made it go off was actually Gemrazer, overlay a Stonecoil, Yolo lord of Blarghrgh, or another thing with a bunch of +1/+1 counters and stomp all over those silly cat oven thingies.
Ram Through is another thing that helps, being a creature removal that's instant speed and can sometimes hit players.

Ranks up rather well in Platinum for the time being, here's a list for reference:

Spoiler

Deck
3 Scavenging Ooze (M21) 204
4 Pelt Collector (GRN) 141
4 Gemrazer (IKO) 155
3 Questing Beast (ELD) 171
4 Ram Through (IKO) 170
3 Wildwood Tracker (ELD) 183
4 Yorvo, Lord of Garenbrig (ELD) 185
4 Stonecoil Serpent (ELD) 235
2 Vivien, Arkbow Ranger (M20) 199
3 Kraul Harpooner (GRN) 136
2 Barkhide Troll (M20) 165
2 Thrashing Brontodon (RIX) 148
18 Forest (ANA) 60
3 Castle Garenbrig (ELD) 240
2 Bonders' Enclave (IKO) 245

Sideboard
4 Shifting Ceratops (M20) 194
1 Barkhide Troll (M20) 165
1 Questing Beast (ELD) 171
1 Kraul Harpooner (GRN) 136
1 Thrashing Brontodon (RIX) 148

I could probably wildcard the fourth ooze replacing the troll, then think about maybe having a fourth Wildwood Tracker,
but Stonecoil is so versatile when it comes to filling the gaps in your curve.

I believe what I have is competitive, but I've seen people try different things, like Gingerbrutes delivering damage with Giant Growths and Titanic Growths. It's certainly fun to end the game by Ramming Through a 1/1 with your buffed stonecoil. I also keep seeing the WG list that focuses on counters with conclave mentors, wildwood scourge, loxodon and a bit of proliferate. Can be explosive, but at the end of the day it's a midrange deck with very little interaction going on.

 

[Thac0]

Couldnt play the last day since my launcher crashed super hard and nothing I could do could fix it.
Installing now over the Epic Game Store, making a deal with the devil so to speak. Seems to work maginally better than WotCs own shit programming.

4x Pelt
3x Ooze
4x Yorvo
4x Stonecoil
3x Questing
2x Vivien

Is pretty much the same core I use now. I am not 100% sold on Gemrazer, often ends up just being a 4/4 4 trample/reach. Mutating him ontop of a Yorvo is gamewinning tho.

Ram Through vs Primal Might is the big interaction question for me right now. I am trying 2 of each atm.

I also played around a bit with mainboard heroic intervention. Its not bad, better in the sideboard probably.

Not too sold on Wildwood Tracker, I used to test with him a bit. Good target for Gemrazer tho.

Is there anything to hit for Kraul Harponeer mainboard atm?

I had some success with Garruks Harbinger and Garruks Uprising, aswell as the new Garruk.
Uprising: Creatures you control have trample is some good text on a do nothing enchantment, and it makes the midrange matchups very favored. Dead against aggro and control tho. Due to the 4 power clause I think this is not a sideboard card but rather all or nothing as you have to build your deck around it.
Harbinger: Very potent option for a very crowded 3 slot. If Uprising goes in so does he.
Garruk: Probably worse than Vivien but has some real star hours when behind. -1 him for a 3/3 can be back breaking. Also fishes for lethal very well. 1 off seems good to me.

I have read some people swear on Nissa with 7 mana outlets mainboard in serpents and oozes. I am not exactly sure the deck wants to wait until untap turn 6 to win.

Cutting The Great Henge down to 1 copy or completely is probably the right call. Can win you games but is a dead card too often.

Bonders Enclave is a spicy tech I havnt seen yet. Will probably try 2 aswell, might be really good for some matchups.

 

[spectre]

Installing now over the Epic Game Store, making a deal with the devil so to speak. Seems to work maginally better than WotCs own shit programming.

Shouldn't make any difference, the shit client underneath is the same. Unless the кита́ец botnet handles updates better.
Never had any trouble here, to be honest, just keep this shit out of your system partition and make sure the shortcut keeps pointing to the launcher instead of mtga.exe.
Other than that, it's fucking Unity, can't be helped.

I am not 100% sold on Gemrazer, often ends up just being a 4/4 4 trample/reach. Mutating him ontop of a Yorvo is gamewinning tho.

Consider the yolo mutation to be your embercleave - doubled power and trample. Should be enough to sell it.
Of course, yolo, serpent and ooze are the most optimal, but Pelt, Barkhide and Tracker are not terrible.
As long as you're getting extra power and card advantage, it's all good.
But, even if not mutating, a 4/4 reach trample is playable on its own.
You should see targets for it in most decks out there, from Oven to reclamation to All that Glitters, it even hits opposing serpents and Xanax.
It's also funny to see mono red concede when you blow up their embercleave.

Ram Through vs Primal Might is the big interaction question for me right now. I am trying 2 of each atm.

This one is simple, I think. Instant speed always prevails over sorcery (because you can always use it in combat for double damage),
not to mention, the possibility to hit face. You might not be getting 100% out of ram through if you don't have enough tramplers.

I also played around a bit with mainboard heroic intervention. Its not bad, better in the sideboard probably.

Ah yes, forgot about this one. Yep, definitely sideboard material, out there with Ranger's Guile probably.
I'd have to try those at some point, most of the time I manage to beat control by not putting too much shit on the board.
I'm mostly seeing aggro, but it's something to consider.

Not too sold on Wildwood Tracker, I used to test with him a bit. Good target for Gemrazer tho.

It's effectively a 2/2 1 drop, so any kind of aggro should be interested by default. Depends what kind of a curve you're aiming at.
If you're going beyond 5 mana, they probably aren't going to cut it.

Is there anything to hit for Kraul Harponeer mainboard atm?

I'll happily retire them once I stop running into Healer Hawks, Borat, perfect Pet and the lot.
There's also a new-ish variant of mono black with Demonic Embrace that should have plenty of eligible targets.

I had some success with Garruks Harbinger and Garruks Uprising, aswell as the new Garruk.

I haven't thrown any wildcards at M21 yet. Can't be bothered to throw mythic wildcards at this deck, though the new Garruk will probably replace Vivien with the basic functionality of trample-giving post rotation.
As it is now, pseudo-removal is a slightly better option.

Uprising is probably a pass, the 4 power matters theme only really works reliably in limited. It's a tempo loss, no matter how you look at it, and it starts paying for itself after the second draw.
Unless they start giving us 4/4 for two.

On the other hand, the harbinger is rather interesting and I think I'll start checking them out once I get my hands on one or two. Might retire Brontodontists for it,
perhaps cut one Yolo if interaction keeps being relevant.

I have read some people swear on Nissa with 7 mana outlets mainboard in serpents and oozes. I am not exactly sure the deck wants to wait until untap turn 6 to win.
Cutting The Great Henge down to 1 copy or completely is probably the right call. Can win you games but is a dead card too often.

I think I'm getting all the "ramp" I need with the castle, at least when playing this deck as the aggro to beat other aggros. It's possible to give it a more midrange spin
and pack all the value cards - Lovestruck Beast, Growth-chamber Guardian, Great Henge, Nissa, etc. Although, I'm not sure if mono green has enough pay-off cards for this.
You play a big ass Serpent, then it just gets Eliminated.

Bonders Enclave is a spicy tech I havnt seen yet. Will probably try 2 aswell, might be really good for some matchups.

That card's underplayed, imo. I started using it in a mono blue tempo experiment, and found out I could draw cards pretty much all the time.
And if I can't, no biggie. Stil comes untapped.

It can fuck up the mana on triple colored costs, but thankfully that doesn't happen too often.
I think it would be 100% kosher with one more green mana source (as opposed to 90% it is now), I added the second one as #61 to actually draw it at some point.
It is actually useful every now and then, especially mirror matches that can get rather grindy after you trade a lot of pieces. One game I actually used it with Kraul Harpooner who got the boost and let me draw a card.
Not a game-breaking play, but useful when in topdeck mode.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[spectre]

Yeah, it doesn't really do shit on its own, which means it's a win-more trap if you want to play it with targeted discard.
Could be made to suck less with 1 mana discards, though this probably means playing with shit like Liliana's Steward (only way to play it on curve and discard something) or Vicious Rumors and delay it to turn three.

Rather, what you're looking at is a combo piece with shit like Emergency Powers.
Since Emergency Powers is obviously out of the question, this leaves us with red and blue effects. I'll look a bit more when I have time, but the only thing you've got in on Arena at the moment that fits the bill seems to be Dragon Mage... which means we're pairing two pieces of barely playable jank. I would totally try it if we had Burning Inquiry, Dark Deal or Wistful Thinking.

You can always use it as sideboard tech vs. cycling and the 2UU flashing magic negro.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Good lord, quick draft for M21 is available now. Happened to glance in the client and noticed it, guess I'll actually do some drafts since I need more gems to get the mastery pass. Haven't heard of anything particularly busted or annoying in M21 limited yet either so maybe it'll be good, though I don't read much about limited so I might've missed it.

 

[spectre]

It definitely pays to bring enchantment removals, cause two early shrines can dominate the game, same goes for Teferi's Tutelage.

One legitimately busted thing I saw was Sublime Epiphany with a blue critter that returns a spell back to hand. Pretty much means they're countering your play and getting the epiphany back AND most likely bouncing one of your things.
A lot of the Mythics are busterd (terror of the peaks, bananaslayer angel), but overall it feels rather fair. I did a few premier drafts and it felt on par with M20 and ikoria (minus the mutate stacks of doom and minus the obnoxious cycling... so strictly better all in all).
You will see a lot of temples and fabled passages being passed, so it's a good source of thous if you don't have any of those at all.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

it's fun! I like m21 draft waaaay more than ikoria. there isn't really one build that's super busted (*cough* cycling *cough*) even though aggro decks that curve out nicely are pretty scary. but there are so many ways to build a deck in this format that can work out really nicely. pretty much any color combination can be good as long as you're picking the right cards.

piece of advice is to try to make sure you can get creatures on the battlefield by turn 2 or 3 if only to block aggression.. creatures with 3 attack should deal with most things and 4 or 5 toughness should block a lot.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Thanks bros, I'll probably play some over the weekend. Intending to play a decent stack of M21 drafts since I've been sitting on my packs, then I'll crack them when I'm done drafting. Intended to do that with Ikoria and Theros but neither set really blew me away. Cards for constructed-wise M21 feels a bit weighted toward the mythics, but as far as playing in limited it looks like it should be really nice. Not sure how hard I'll go on draft since I've got around 165,000 gold socked away and I'm not sure how much (If any) I'll spend on Jumpstart and I'm not sure how much (If any) I'll spend on the Amonkhet remastered boosters, and I don't know if we're getting any more historic anthologies this year or not. I'd assume one more.

Thus far the champion of shitty draft still goes to War of the Spark in my mind. I've heard people try to swear it's good in paper and Arena draft does a disservice to it, but fuck planeswalkers and recurring bombs like the gods (Even if it was a good plan to just play fast aggressive decks and smack them silly before they can play big shit). Even with Spectre mentioning Terror of the Peaks and Baneslayer Angel at least they die to removal and don't require exile. Good removal in general is hard enough in limited, needing exile on top chaps my ass.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

My shameful raredrafting has been punished. Was drafting Azorius flyers and passed on 2 copies of Watcher of the Spheres to pick up rares. Then once I was actually playing matches, I flooded out drawing 11 out of 15 lands in my final game. 2-3. I regret having wh*te in my deck.



Even then I might've been able to survive, but my opponent had back to back fatass blue beaters with hexproof so even my removal couldn't save my ass. Would've had to race and I couldn't outpace two 5 power dudes when I had jack shit on the board. Last two losses were against a 4 color and 3 color deck though which is always painful.

so far quick draft experience is very meh. Bots seem to grab all the rares

I actually had 6 rares show up in my draft, took everything but the temple I was already maxed out on. Nothing all that impressive but I got a copy of Peer into the Abyss which I'll probably meme around with eventually. And Speaker of the Heavens which I might run in mono-wh*te lifegain historic, not sure. He might not be good enough for it but since he's a 1 drop he can get snagged by Ranger of Eos which is a plus.

 

[Thac0]

Until now I kinda like M21 less than Ikoria. Drafting feels very archetypal, you cant really build outside of a few very potent colour pairs.
Gruul Stompy
Azorius Flyers
Dimir Control
Selesnya +1/+1 Midrange
Boros or White Wheenies
Orzhov Lifegain

It has been ages since I have seen someone playing a deck that wasnt one of the above in limited. Izzet is kinda bad, Simic is potent when it comes together but very rare. I never had a pod that made me want to go Golgari. I have never seen Rakdos. Almost no 3+ colours going on due to weak colourless and fixing. Noone plays monocolours except white and rarely red maybe. Fine for a core set but very unexciting.

I prefered both M19 and M20 drafting. It is much better than the turd that is War of the Spark tho. Also better than Theros 2 Elspeth Boogaloo for me.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

you have tricked me. Tried 2 more only to get 3 rares each again

To be fair I might've been "Lucky" since I was getting stuff like Nine Lives on second/third pick. Not too surprised to see the AI pass on cards like that.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

in other news deadline is approaching and I wonder whether I should get that explorer bundle or not. I sit at 7k gems.

It's fairly reasonable if you play MTGA regularly and you've already spent money on it/you're willing to spend some money on it. Especially if you intend to play historic since that'll only get more expensive as they add more sets/anthologies while standard gets the regular stack of new cards. Keeping up with standard while staying free to play's not that difficult if you play regularly, but standard AND historic might be trickier. Explorer bundle has a better gems-to-dollar ratio than even the $100 gem pack, and if you care about the cosmetics there are a few decent ones in there.

 

[spectre]

It would help if we knew how they're going to price the Ampkphtkt remaster.

As it stands, do you have any plans for having 10k gems rather than 7k?
I'm sitting at around 6500 myself and the way I see it, this lets me buy the next mastery pass and any anthology that might turn up in the meantime,
and by that time I should easily get another 2-3k gems by just drafting.
The cosmetics will probably be on sale at one point or another, so it's pretty much down to the value for gems you'd be getting. Not terribly spectacular, saving 2 bucks, if I remember correctly.

It's probably the only thing worth buying IF you want to throw money at it, but the way I see it, you either throw loads of money at that game and get the 90 packs thing to complete a set,
those 3,5k don't feel like a noticeable immediate boost, unless you're just starting out and you want to fund your first mastery.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

you have tricked me. Tried 2 more only to get 3 rares each again

To be fair I might've been "Lucky" since I was getting stuff like Nine Lives on second/third pick. Not too surprised to see the AI pass on cards like that.

or maybe im 'lucky' and bots receive nice cards. Either way, so far its like if player draft is better for me for beg drafting, this set is weird.
*putting tinfoil hat on* clearly devs coded bots to remove cool cards from pool.


in other news deadline is approaching and I wonder whether I should get that explorer bundle or not. I sit at 7k gems.

bots may be using data from player drafts to determine pick order. I've done two bot drafts and got 7 rares the first time 5 rares the second, and the rares the bots passed were the same rares frequently passed in player draft (halo/peer/rare shrine/transmog/9lives). they were never passing any rares besides those "unplayable" ones (i would totally first pick rare shrine in player draft tho and force that shit hell yea)

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG