Making a game

[JJ86]

Wow, a magic/fantasy game. How unique.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Wow, a magic/fantasy game. How unique.

Yea, tihs si so kewl, It si liek teh rel world but it haev magic monstars and heros wiht swords adn stuff. You can heav evan dragons bcause it si not real, get it, hahaha. I haev a wepsite alredy!!1!11.

 

[Vault Dweller]

But let's also say that instead of a perk, I can take a specialization. Let's say, for instance, long swords. From that point forward, I would get a bonus to my melee skill when using long swords. FO has small guns and big guns skills, but take it one step further and combine the two but allow for specializations. For guns though you don't have to get technical as far as specializations go. No "Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum" specializations. Instead, just categorize it as handguns/rifles(shotguns)/smg/machinegun/heavy machinegun. Now you'll wanna make the bonus worth it. Maybe say +20% to hit and a better chance for criticals when using that specific weapon type.

About melee skills. Here is what I have at the moment: 3 basic skills (one-handed, two-handed, and, for the lack of a better word, exotic, which would cover weapons that don't look like anything you've seen before, but you like what they do ). I also have (for now) sub skills like axe, sword, etc that would give you bonuses to specific weapon types. I thought that the more options and different character types I'd have the better. You could have a character who can hit you with pretty much anything and would be able to pick a perk for example that would deliver a percentage of damage to those who are close to the main target; or you could have a blademaster who would not be any good with an axe but extremely dangerous with a sword and would be able to pick a perk augmenting his particular style. I didn't want to waste perks on specialization as, imo, perks shouldn't increase skills but supplement existing ones. What do you think?

 

[Megatron]

Exotic always seems a little shit. I'd rather have a general melee skill, perks for certain types of weapons then weapon familiarity (the more you use the weapon, the better you yield it)

akimbo daggers would be nice though. I hate how fantasy games allow you to carry a sword and a shield but not two swords ((

What races are planned?

I'm also a little confuzzled about the fantasy setting. It seems everyone here is bored of it. Unless it was like Arabian nights or something. GO GO MAGIC CARPET!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Exotic always seems a little shit. I'd rather have a general melee skill, perks for certain types of weapons then weapon familiarity (the more you use the weapon, the better you yield it)

General melee skill is too plain, imo. Like I said I want to make as many different character choices as I can. If you don't like any particular skill, you would be able to stick with what you like.

akimbo daggers would be nice though. I hate how fantasy games allow you to carry a sword and a shield but not two swords ((

I thought that BG2 had dual wileding. Don't remember about IWD2 games. ToEE has dual wielding. So, whatcha bitching about?

What races are planned?

I'm glad someone asked. Humans, then of course, humans, and I'm thinking that throwing some humans into the mix would be a nice touch. Somebody said before that an elf is basically a human with high dex, and I agree with that. Unless there is a good reason to introduce interesting unique classes that are more then some pregenerated variants of a basic human, there should be just one race. I don't have such a reason for this particular game.

I'm also a little confuzzled about the fantasy setting. It seems everyone here is bored of it.

Yep, looks like it, but that's what I will do nonetheless. There are reasons for that. I hope that those of you who live in countries run by dictators would be forced to play it, those who live in free countries would enjoy the freedom of choice

 

[Megatron]

I thought that BG2 had dual wileding. Don't remember about IWD2 games. ToEE has dual wielding. So, whatcha bitching about?

Arcanum and Fallout :O

Unless there is a good reason to introduce interesting unique classes that are more then some pregenerated variants of a basic human, there should be just one race. I don't have such a reason for this particular game.

I dig humans, I was thinking more race-orientated. Like Asian, African, European. You wouldn't name them that though because it would be...RACIST!

It would also be nice if you added that if it changed your starting location and reactions.

 

[MrBrown]

General melee skill is too plain, imo. Like I said I want to make as many different character choices as I can. If you don't like any particular skill, you would be able to stick with what you like.

Well, taking on your point below about races, I wouldn't add too many skills unless there's a really good reason. If you put them in simply because you like it some way or you think it's realistic some way, you might find yourself spending alot of work on making each skill useful, when you could combine them and get off alot easier.

I think alot of games have too many skills, and as a result a single skills is really not that useful. I think FO especially had this problem. I'd rather have few skills be really really useful, and sacrifice a little realism.

Unless there is a good reason to introduce interesting unique classes that are more then some pregenerated variants of a basic human, there should be just one race. I don't have such a reason for this particular game.

Since you seem to be going with a Fallout-esque system anyways, you might want to introduce cultural/geographical/"racial" differences with Traits. It might mean the PC is from a not-so-civilized, secluded, or otherwise different area, and has some small bonuses and penalties due to that. Not only it does it bring a little flavor to the character, it can also be checked for quests, NPC attitude and all sorts of flavor text.

If the bonuses/penalties are made small enough (or non-existant; you might add this only for character flavor), you can avoid stereotyping like with D&D races (ie, these guys are good fighters, those are good rogues, etc).

 

[Vault Dweller]

Arcanum and Fallout :O

I thought you said fantasy games, but yes, dual wielding is a nice option.

I dig humans, I was thinking more race-orientated. Like Asian, African, European. You wouldn't name them that though because it would be...RACIST!

Yep, I better call my humans fantasy-americans or something

It would also be nice if you added that if it changed your starting location and reactions.

For the story-related reasons, everybody starts in one place. I can change that of course, but as ToEE shows people don't dig vignettes unless they are hours-long mini-games I'm trying to reduce the amount of unnecessary and unappreciated work.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Crack Shot - The character suffers no penalties to his combat skill for called shots and can effectively increase the range of his weapon by an extra 50%. This would also require a high skill level and apply only to ranged weapon combat.

How about making it so the character, by needing to focus on a crack shot, has the potential for dishing out more damage, but is more vulnerable to blows, and therefore, will suffer double damage when activating the skill? He won't be very perceptive of things in the battlefield if he's focusing all his shots like that.

And VD, you say the melee skills right now are one-handed, two-handed and exotic. Is two-handed set for holding a weapon with both hands, or holding one on each hand?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, taking on your point below about races, I wouldn't add too many skills unless there's a really good reason.

Agree. Everything has to have a reason.

Since you seem to be going with a Fallout-esque system anyways, you might want to introduce cultural/geographical/"racial" differences with Traits.

It's a good idea, but at this point I'm trying to make the game as fast as possible which is still a lot of time. Hence the generic not-important fantasy setting. The story is not bad, imo, not your usual type. The main focus is on the character, interaction, choices, development, making your own story, etc. Adding stuff like races, backgrounds, developing and explaining different cultures seem like a waste of time at that point. My goal is to make a solid basic game that's fun to play. If I succeed in that and feel that I have something good then I'd be able to add extra things like history, culture, better art, etc.

And VD, you say the melee skills right now are one-handed, two-handed and exotic. Is two-handed set for holding a weapon with both hands, or holding one on each hand?

Both hands. No dual wielding is planned at this point although it's definitely a good option. See above.

 

[Megatron]

It's a good idea, but at this point I'm trying to make the game as fast as possible which is still a lot of time. Hence the generic not-important fantasy setting.

Might you be using magic as a sort of deus-ex type of thing? I'd rather see a fantasy setting with tech instead of magic. Like arcanum with no magic stuff.
Leeches+Bleeding>Magic potions and heal spells
perhaps placebo's would work for some stuff though.

Adding stuff like races, backgrounds, developing and explaining different cultures seem like a waste of time at that point.

But back-story is fun. At least having those books that explain stuff like in Morrowind would be nice. You could get someone else to write them as well.

I also think backgrounds/traits would be good as well as races.

I think if you did races without bothering about the real-world it wouldn't matter much. It's similair to saying arcanum is sexist because the different genders have different stats at the start.

Will there be different melee styles in the game? I was thinking since squad-strategy games have different stances to help shooting, perhaps fighters could have different combat styles. There could be normal, defensive and aggressive. You could also learn more styles like mabye kung-fu or berzerk.

lewl

 

[MrBrown]

It's similair to saying arcanum is sexist because the different genders have different stats at the start.

Arcanum is sexist because female characters have to sleep with a slimy gnome to complete a quest. And Tim Cain is the enemy of all women. :evil:

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'd rather see a fantasy setting with tech instead of magic. Like arcanum with no magic stuff.

Nope, magic is an important part of the story, sorry.

But back-story is fun. At least having those books that explain stuff like in Morrowind would be nice. You could get someone else to write them as well.

It's fun, I agree, I'm just trying to take it one step at a time. As for getting someone else to write it for me, the game would have to be in final stages for that still.

I think if you did races without bothering about the real-world it wouldn't matter much. It's similair to saying arcanum is sexist because the different genders have different stats at the start.

No, I don't care about political correctness at all. Fuck that. It's just like I said so far I don't see a good reason to introduce races if they add nothing. Fallout was fine with just humans. I had a campaign once where I used 2 different cultures very well, but that wouldn't fit here.

Will there be different melee styles in the game?

Not planned at the moment due to technical limitations. Would be cool though.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

It's similair to saying arcanum is sexist because the different genders have different stats at the start.

Arcanum is sexist because female characters have to sleep with a slimy gnome to complete a quest. And Tim Cain is the enemy of all women. :evil:

If you're a female Half-Orc with high Str you can intimidate him into giving the invitation to you. Not sure if Charisma also matters in that case.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Arcanum is sexist because female characters have to sleep with a slimy gnome to complete a quest. And Tim Cain is the enemy of all women. :evil:

What Role-Player said with the exception of race. I did it with a human female and a high persuasion skill. The dialogue options are there if your skill is high enough.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Ah, ok. I only remembered having made it with a female HO as far as intimidating, not convincing.

 

[Megatron]

I'd rather see a fantasy setting with tech instead of magic. Like arcanum with no magic stuff.

Nope, magic is an important part of the story, sorry.

Tech is pretty magical though eh?

What is the story anyway? Ancient evil? Magic rings? I think coneheads would be a pretty good setting. Make a coneheads crpg.

 

[MrBrown]

I had a female elf with high charisma. Maybe I was lacking the skill, or willpower, or something.

Point still stands. :evil:

 

[Megatron]

perhaps you weren't intimidating enough.

It's also sexist against males because we didn't have access to hot dorf sex, guess you have to take the rough with the smooth.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I didn't want to waste perks on specialization as, imo, perks shouldn't increase skills but supplement existing ones. What do you think?

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. You'd still have the perks for them to choose from, but they can also opt to take specializations instead of a perk. Perks are definitely unique and not just skill boosters, therefore they are totally different from specializations. Look at my examples above. Let's say someone took a specialization in handguns their first time around. Now they have +20% to hit and better criticals with handguns. Now let's say they get the skill up to 100 (not counting the bonus) and get another choice. Okay, so they choose Trick Shot. Now, not only do they get the specialization bonus, but the Trick Shot bonus as well. And if they use something other than a handgun, the Trick Shot still applies, but the specialization bonus no longer does. Sure you can call them perks since you're offering them along with the other perks, but unlike perks, they give direct bonuses to the skill rather than supplement it with other frills and bonuses like perks do.

Gee... I wonder if I can say perks again?

Oh... I just did.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I had a female elf with high charisma. Maybe I was lacking the skill, or willpower, or something.

High persuasion skill. That is the key. You have to PERSUADE him. You can have godlike Charisma and it won't do any good if you're not skilled how to use it properly. That's where the persuasion skill comes in.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

How about making it so the character, by needing to focus on a crack shot, has the potential for dishing out more damage, but is more vulnerable to blows, and therefore, will suffer double damage when activating the skill? He won't be very perceptive of things in the battlefield if he's focusing all his shots like that.

Penalties like that are what should be incurred on the person who doesn't have crack shot and still wants to try those stunts. If the person takes the crack shot skill, they are effectively cutting their need for aiming time. Plus, the extra damage would come into effect depending on where they hit. A head shot should definitely get a better modifier to damage then say a shot to the arm. Now, crack shot would not apply to sniping long distances. That would be a totally different perk or skill. BUT, crack shot would definitely supplement that other perk or skill by increasing the range of the shot.

 

[Human Shield]

Levels are important when they increase HP. HP should rarely increase and not do to levels.

An XP to buy skill points system? Are stats set at the start and are they changable or a pure skill-based system?

I would like weapon skills like sword/ax etc to be sub-skills to melee combat, giving bonuses to melee skill when using said weapon. On one hand I like to think "I want to make a sword master" and on the other I think "everyone is going to be a sword master". The most common and best weapons will be used by players, try finding a paladin in BG2 that doesn't end up with two-handed sword skill for using that uber-sword. If fallout had handgun/shotgun/SMG/Rifle stats, who would turn down assault rifles, or who wouldn't pimp out a gauss pistol (FO2).

XP for buying skill ponts is nice but I don't think perks should be instant shopping or that even all skills should be open at the start. To get a good system that allows characters to focus on weapons but not to become xeno-weapon-phobic warriors and a different perk system I purpose:

Melee skills are bought through XP and shows how well the character becomes familar in fighting with weapons, better handling, stronger wrists etc... This is great for brawling but learning advanced abilities should come from an outside source. Gaining perks could be from staying with a teacher, reading a book, or even observing someone using the perk. Perks should have levels of effectiveness, where they make sense. They could even open new skills, I'd make the player have to figure out how to use magic instead of putting it on a starting character.

A master swordsman would be pretty deadly with an axe but an average swordfighter might be poor with an axe.

When the character is increasing melee skill, for every 10 points then can assign 5 (or how ever many weapon classes there are) points among weapon skills. They can increase each by one or pump them into one.

The difference is that the bonus given to the melee skill by using the weapon class decreases as melee skill goes up. So at 100 melee skill, 50 longsword would give a 5 point bonus but at 10 melee skill 5 longsword would give a 15 point bonus. This allows the character to get good with one weapon but learn to become good with all of them.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

Nope, I guess I just didn't explain my point properly. I think that perks shouldn't give bonuses to skills, skill perks should be results of you achieving a certain level in skills and represent a logical conclusion of such an achievement. For example, you've learned a few fanciful moves showing off your skill and those opponents with lesser fighting skills are intimidated by you and thus get a penalty to hit you. This sort of things. Anyway, like I said before I have specialization skills and that's what you increase if you want to be good with a particular weapon. That creates a choice between specialization (finesse) and generalization (brute force). If I throw in a perk or an option to pick a specialization, it'll screw up my system. If for whatever reason i decide to remove specialization skills I'll definitely replace them with specialization perks although not as uber as 20% to hit and better criticals. I believe in hardwork and moderation.

What is the story anyway? Ancient evil? Magic rings? I think coneheads would be a pretty good setting. Make a coneheads crpg.

The story is very cool. You find a magic ring and then a wizard tells you that you better destroy it, and you have to go to the only place where it can be destroyed. I won't tell you more as I don't want to spoil it.

 

[Transcendent One]

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