Making a game

[Vault Dweller]

An XP to buy skill points system? Are stats set at the start and are they changable or a pure skill-based system?

Stats are set at the start and you can't increase them later on. Quests give you XPs, probably between 1 and 5, you use them to improve skills. It takes more to increase a higher skill.

I would like weapon skills like sword/ax etc to be sub-skills to melee combat, giving bonuses to melee skill when using said weapon.

That's how it's going to be, you will be able to generalize or specialize or mix of both. I made some more detailed posts above on that.

The most common and best weapons will be used by players, try finding a paladin in BG2 that doesn't end up with two-handed sword skill for using that uber-sword.

No uber swords. Only your skills would make you uber, if that's what you want.

If fallout had handgun/shotgun/SMG/Rifle stats, who would turn down assault rifles, or who wouldn't pimp out a gauss pistol (FO2).

That's why I have generalize/specialize system. Pick what you like, it's up to you. If you want to keep your options open, keep 'em that way. If you really want to be a sword master, be my guest. The bonuses and perks are different of course.

XP for buying skill ponts is nice but I don't think perks should be instant shopping or that even all skills should be open at the start.

Some skills wouldn't be open like some exotic weapons specialization untill you find one. Perks are not instant shopping, you get one when your skill is reasonably improved.

Melee skills are bought through XP and shows how well the character becomes familar in fighting with weapons, better handling, stronger wrists etc...

Check

This is great for brawling but learning advanced abilities should come from an outside source. Gaining perks could be from staying with a teacher, reading a book, or even observing someone using the perk.

Check. That's quest perks. Skill perks are minor, see few examples above. They are not designed to increase abilties but to apply them in ways other then direct damage if it's melee, for example.

Perks should have levels of effectiveness, where they make sense. They could even open new skills, I'd make the player have to figure out how to use magic instead of putting it on a starting character.

I think that handling magic items should be a skill like lore but more practical. No skill, no magical bonus, just a nice glow-in-the-dark sword

A master swordsman would be pretty deadly with an axe but an average swordfighter might be poor with an axe.

I think that master swordsman would still suck with an axe assuming that his skill comes mostly from specialization. The techniques are too different.

The difference is that the bonus given to the melee skill by using the weapon class decreases as melee skill goes up. So at 100 melee skill, 50 longsword would give a 5 point bonus but at 10 melee skill 5 longsword would give a 15 point bonus. This allows the character to get good with one weapon but learn to become good with all of them.

That sorta works againts my generalize/specialize system (GS for future references). I like your system but it forces a player to spend points a certain way. I want better flexibility allowing to create any character you want. Anyway, what do you think of my system, any weaknesses that I missed?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Make it so when you find the ring you team up with three friends, then decide to take a trip across the country finding yourselves and friendship in the process. Tag in a karaoke scene, the vorpal bunny from Monty Python, and Jedis, and its bestest game evah!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Make it so when you find the ring you team up with three friends, then decide to take a trip across the country finding yourselves and friendship in the process. Tag in a karaoke scene, the vorpal bunny from Monty Python, and Jedis, and its bestest game evah!

lol, I will add an NPC who would always try to steal the ring and he would always say "give me itamz".

 

[Human Shield]

What makes someone a master swordsman? They can learn styles and techniques but strength, speed, dexterity, etc... are still important. A man that can kill everyone with a sword can put the same strength and speed into using an axe and be good with it without learning special moves. If anything mastering one weapons lets one master another much easier.

Anyway, what do you think of my system, any weaknesses that I missed?

You didn't fully explain it all.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What makes someone a master swordsman? They can learn styles and techniques but strength, speed, dexterity, etc... are still important. A man that can kill everyone with a sword can put the same strength and speed into using an axe and be good with it without learning special moves. If anything mastering one weapons lets one master another much easier.

The strength, speed, and dex are nice, but a lot of people are naturally strong, fast, and agile. What makes one a master swordsman is the skill, technique, the right way to hold the blade, etc. A good golfer isn't necessarily a good hockey player.

You didn't fully explain it all.

It's only a melee part of it. You have 3 general skills which represents your basic understanding of weapons and how to handle them efficiently. The 3 skills are one-handed, two-handed, and exotic - the ones you haven't seen before, they would require different techniques then regular one-handed or two-handed weapons. You can pick a skill and stick with it, being reasonably good with all the weapons within the group. That represents brute force, you just like hitting people in the face with stuff. There are bonuses and perks for the general skills. Then you have specialized skills (axe, sword, hammer, exotic ones would be added as you discover them) These represent finesse and come with their own bonuses and perks reflecting the nature of the skill. You can go with a general skill, you can go with a specialized skill, you can do a mix of both, having 50% in one-handed and 25% in swords, for example.

 

[Human Shield]

Different perks for the different melee skills will go far. I would like to see each weapon skill have a focus in relation to perks. Such as axe/mace perks will focus on putting strength into attacks, dagger/sword will focus on swinging faster, lances will focus on more piercing attacks etc...

And the benefits of the weapon perks could carry over to other weapons in a reduced form, if you have mastered a lighting fast sword attack it would make sense that you could swing other weapons faster.

I just don't think that any master in a weapon is retarded at others. They would be able to learn other weapons faster after becoming an expert in one. The rate of increasing others in a sub-skill should go up the higher one of them becomes, it is a sub-skill group after all, a fire-master mage should logically be able to pick up other spells easier.

 

[Oyarsa]

exotic - the ones you haven't seen before

Depending on setting and starting point swords could be exotic. In other words how are you going to define what they have and have not seen in weaponry? A longswordsman encountering a sabre, scimitar, or katana for the first time (not that there should be this kind of variety, katanas always seem out of place in otherwise psuedo-euro settings) will know its a sword and will be able to handle it, but not very effectively, because there are certain characteristics of those types of swords that lend themselves to alternative techniques. A skilled swordsman would be able to figure out at least some of these properties, but on a curve, not instantaneously.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Different perks for the different melee skills will go far. I would like to see each weapon skill have a focus in relation to perks. Such as axe/mace perks will focus on putting strength into attacks, dagger/sword will focus on swinging faster, lances will focus on more piercing attacks etc...

Yep, that's the plan

And the benefits of the weapon perks could carry over to other weapons in a reduced form, if you have mastered a lighting fast sword attack it would make sense that you could swing other weapons faster.

Not sure about that, swinging a sword faster is very different from swinging a hammer faster. Maybe that's the part where I need to forget about realism and think of fun. I will think about it some more.

I just don't think that any master in a weapon is retarded at others. They would be able to learn other weapons faster after becoming an expert in one. The rate of increasing others in a sub-skill should go up the higher one of them becomes, it is a sub-skill group after all, a fire-master mage should logically be able to pick up other spells easier.

Ok, how about the highest skill in a melee subclass gives a 30% bonus of the difference between the high and the low? The bonus is used only in to hit and damage calculations. It doesn't add the actual value to the skill in question. So, if your sword skill is 95 and your axe skill is 5, you get a bonus of 30; if you have 95 and 65 for whatever wierd reason, you get an extra 10. I don't want to make general skills which give unrestricted access to all weapons within a class useless.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

lol, I will add an NPC who would always try to steal the ring and he would always say "give me itamz".

I wnat nekid hawt chix wtih boobz! I liek boobz!

 

[Greenskin13]

You must listen to the masses, VD.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Depending on setting and starting point swords could be exotic.

That's not what I meant. Exotic weapons in this game are those from the old days and some of them haven't even been designed for humans. They don't look like anything anyone's seen before.

 

[Megatron]

perhaps you get perks for weapon specialization after you've defeated the master of that weapon. It could get over-powered but if somebody wants to play a swordsman and nothing else, why not?

It would also be nice if we could dedicate our player too one goal besides the main quest, like becoming the master swordsman or strongest man in the world. Perhaps at the start the player could generate another character with freedom. When the player get's the same stats as the player he set as a target he could get a bonus or reputation.

It would also be nice if you sort of give us a basic idea of what the game is, like what skills there are and how dialouge will be done etc. I don't think you've told us the basics yet, will we keep having to prod and poke until we learn what engine you're planning to use and stuff?

 

[Vault Dweller]

perhaps you get perks for weapon specialization after you've defeated the master of that weapon. It could get over-powered but if somebody wants to play a swordsman and nothing else, why not?

Doesn't make sense to me to have the master of something. There are people with different degrees of proficiency in any given weapon. Some of them are extremely good. Some of them are known, some not. Defeating somebody well known would give you a reputation perk, nothing more. (and a couple of XP of course)

It would also be nice if we could dedicate our player too one goal besides the main quest, like becoming the master swordsman or strongest man in the world.

No, nothing fancy like that. You can become pretty good with a sword, but nobody would care, as there are other people who are better then you are. There is always somebody who's better then you are. Same goes for being the strongest, the fastest, the smartest, etc. Besides, you can not increase stats.

It would also be nice if you sort of give us a basic idea of what the game is

It's too early for that. The reason I started this thread is to get some feedback on things that could be changed to make it a better (more interesting for those who visit the Codex) game. I'd like to discuss now things like levels, hps, skills, quests, realism, etc. Keep in mind that I can't give you good graphics and I can't you combat as tactical as that in ToEE, what I can give you is good character development, interesting quests with 4-6 different solutions, quests that would have different solutions depending on how you solved some other quests and in what order (i.e. you completed quest A in a certain way which granted you a favour of a faction or a certain person, and now you can ask this faction/person to help you with quest B, this sort of things)

 

[Raymondo]

Most people start with a pacman clone for their first game, you start with a RPG?

Don’t get me wrong but shouldn’t you start with something simpler?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm not like most people. I'm really weird. Besides, I don't really like pacman. Seriously though, I know what you're saying. To answer simply, I have the skiills and an arrogant bastard like me is loaded with self-confidence. I already checked one engine available to me and I can work with it, it's not a walk in the park, but I can handle it. I'm currently checking another engine which is more complicated, but fits my game better, imo. The quests, dialogues, and areas design are already done. Obviously I wouldn't even think about it if I had to do my own engine from scratch.

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

VD, ever thought about a historical RPG? Or maybe something based on history?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I've thought about way too many things (the advantage of being old ). I love history, I have over a hundred books devoted to all kinda topics, from the history of the Roman Empire to the history of piracy per ocean. Anyway, the thing about history is that I wouldn't be comfortable changing it in the game to support "effects of your actions on the gameworld" thingy. I'd love to see a cool historically accurate adventure game though.

 

[Sol Invictus]

VD, ever thought about a historical RPG? Or maybe something based on history?

Byzantines!

 

[Megatron]

Could you have eating any corpse in the game possible? Not just eating for the sake of hunger, I just like the idea of killing everybody and eating them like A MONSTER!

 

[Realbumpbert]

That's a wonderful idea! I wonder if there are any mods like that for Morrowind...

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

I've thought about way too many things (the advantage of being old ). I love history, I have over a hundred books devoted to all kinda topics, from the history of the Roman Empire to the history of piracy per ocean. Anyway, the thing about history is that I wouldn't be comfortable changing it in the game to support "effects of your actions on the gameworld" thingy. I'd love to see a cool historically accurate adventure game though

Aye, that be true, matey.

But what I was suggesting was something based on history, like Sea Dogs.

Byzantines!

I'd be lying if I said I did not have something with that in mind.

I was thinking more of a historically accurate Sea Dogs set in the Medditeranian in the years between Nicopolis (1390s) and Lepanto (1560s). Nice final era of the galley. Damn I love galleys. Play along with Hayyadren Barbarossa, Ali Pasha, charge onto Pasha's ship with Migieul Cervantes.

But that is more a fantasy.


Sounds cool. But consider doing something based on history in the future. Lionheart sucked, but that was despite it's cool premise.

 

[Amerestatistic]

Depending on setting and starting point swords could be exotic.

That's not what I meant. Exotic weapons in this game are those from the old days and some of them haven't even been designed for humans. They don't look like anything anyone's seen before.

Are you thinking of a a bit of a sci-fi/fantasy setting where people in the "old days" were using high-technology? Organic weaponry like geneforge? Anything like that?

That's the impression I get anyway. The "exotic weapons" thing sounds interesting to me, as long as exotic weapons are rare enough to actually feel cool when you finally obtain one.

 

[Vault Dweller]

But what I was suggesting was something based on history, like Sea Dogs....I was thinking more of a historically accurate Sea Dogs set in the Medditeranian in the years between Nicopolis (1390s) and Lepanto (1560s). Nice final era of the galley. Damn I love galleys. Play along with Hayyadren Barbarossa, Ali Pasha, charge onto Pasha's ship with Migieul Cervantes.

Speaking of sea dogs, if I could I'd like to see a game that puts you in charge of either Konigsberg or Emden, two famous German raiders who terrorized the Indian Ocean in 1914. I did a quick search for those who care

http://europeanhistory.about.com/librar ... neast1.htm
Here is the first quote "The exploits of a lone, resourceful cruiser caught world attention, established tactics for commerce raiding and gave tradition to a new navy."

Sounds cool. But consider doing something based on history in the future.

Ok, if my first game doesn't suck too badly

 

[Vault Dweller]

Are you thinking of a a bit of a sci-fi/fantasy setting where people in the "old days" were using high-technology? Organic weaponry like geneforge? Anything like that?

Nope. Sorry, can't spoil it.

That's the impression I get anyway. The "exotic weapons" thing sounds interesting to me, as long as exotic weapons are rare enough to actually feel cool when you finally obtain one.

Extremely rare.

 

[XMark]

I'll put in my two cents worth, since I've been around the RPG dev block a couple of times so what I say just might mean something

I'm not like most people. I'm really weird. Besides, I don't really like pacman. Seriously though, I know what you're saying. To answer simply, I have the skiills and an arrogant bastard like me is loaded with self-confidence.

I suppose arrogant self-confidence is as good as any other motivation for making a game, but, seriously, do not underestimate the huge amount of work you need to put into a complete project. From the stuff I've read in this thread (okay I admit I skimmed most of it) it seems that you have a very good grasp on gameplay mechanics and that'll get you real far.

But to give you an example: my game Blorp Zingwag had no battles, only about seven different characters with their walking sprites, a very sparse overworld map with only three places to go, and maybe 30 minutes of play time on your first run through. Most of the engine was complete at the beginning but it still took me a whole month averaging an hour of work a day to finish it, and the last few days of the competition I really had to scramble to get it to a complete state.

The hard parts you run into are the little tiny things that you don't think about in your big dream for the project. Like in a cutscene when you are trying to figure out how far you want a character to move before turning and saying something to you, and the hours upon hours you spend making sure that there aren't any continuity errors in the scripted dialogue, that all your NPC's are kept up to date with whatever is going on in the game at any given time. Plus all of the time spent doing the graphics for stuff that really isn't interesting but is necessary for completion (example: Drawing a bunch of different-sized moss-covered rocks for your forest environment, and making sure that the texture of the ground just around the edges of the rock tiles blends evenly with the ground around it. Note: you also have to make copies of the same rock tile with different ground behind it if there's more than one type of ground in your forest, plus the tiles for the transition between one type of ground to the next type of ground. Plus the little mushrooms and random weeds to break up the monotony of the ground and make it look more natural. The list goes on and on and on...)

The quests, dialogues, and areas design are already done. Obviously I wouldn't even think about it if I had to do my own engine from scratch.

That's definitely a very good start to have. It's great to have a "bible" with the general overview of the game to see at all times. But it's important not to look at the big picture all the time because the big picture is also a very scary picture

But anyway, be prepared for a hell of a lot more work than you expected, but if you got the drive and you can sustain it over what will probably be at least a year then you got the stuff. Good luck!