Mantra --- my 3d rpg........( screens later)

[Voltare]

Make one then , punk.First off, I'm not making this game for anyone else but myself, kid.And I do not speak " L33T".And what I am making is not a dragonball clone, a fallout clone, a diablo 2 clone or a whatever clone.When a big game company makes their games, they are turning more and more to less programming, and more to things like what I've got.So what if it makes it easier to do?You think one person can't do it?You don't know me.You have absolutely no idea of what I can do......and neither does gamedev.Oh yes....I've read gamedev's " why you won't make it in the game industry."Let me show that article to the Mount& blade people...or the geneforge guys.I'm sure it'll get a laugh.

 

[avalon]

Make one then , punk.

Who says I'm not making one? I may be just keeping a lid on it until I can present something else than shitty landscape designs made with a cut'n'paste editor.

First off, I'm not making this game for anyone else but myself, kid.

Then keep your sad excuse for a "game" to yourself. Why waste everyone's time with your looming failure?

And I do not speak " L33T".

You're right - you speak retard.

And what I am making is not a dragonball clone, a fallout clone, a diablo 2 clone or a whatever clone.

Doesn't really matter, it's going to be a steaming pile of shit anyway.

When a big game company makes their games, they are turning more and more to less programming, and more to things like what I've got.So what if it makes it easier to do?You think one person can't do it?

The development tools the big companies have are mostly in-house productions, exception being that they licensed a 3rd party engine with tools included (which still doesn't rule out the creation of additional in-house tools). Big products may also use middleware - but none of this still means they use a fucking Klik'n'Play clone to do the games. Yes - code/engine reuse/licensing, tools and middleware are there to make it easier and faster, but no - these are in no way comparable to BV. One person can do something, with adequate amounts of dedication, skill and talent - which, well, kind of rules you out. Congratulations for being a dumbfuck though.

You don't know me.You have absolutely no idea of what I can do......and neither does gamedev.

No, I don't - but yes, I have. You're just like any other wannabe game developer - no fucking clue as to what you are doing. Now, I'm sure you have some special hidden talent. I'm sure you're going to show the world that you are The Man. The spiritual successor to Urquhart and Avellone with the best game idea, like, ever. Or not. Just because you believe in your "talent" doesn't mean there's any. Just because your mother told you that you are really special doesn't mean that you really are.

Oh yes....I've read gamedev's " why you won't make it in the game industry."Let me show that article to the Mount& blade people...or the geneforge guys.I'm sure it'll get a laugh.

Don't even think you're even close to the M&B/Geneforge devs. Because honestly, you're not. You can't be even mentioned in the same sentence as them, because they have something you don't - skill and talent. The faster you realize that, the better. You're just another snotty-nosed kid sitting in your parents' basement, "developing" a "game" in BV because someone in Furcadia recommended it to you.

 

[Voltare]

heh....maybe I should have waited untill I had some better shots and a g.u.i to show off." A cut'n paste editor?" Just what in the hell are you talking about?And I own my own home idiot. Oh yeah....I also have something that you will never have.....Female companionship.( married for 4 years) .If you can texture a landscape better than I can, show me.If you can create a better 3d house model....show me.Don't just grab something off the 'net...cause I've seen 'em all.And If you have a better Idea.....make a million with it.

Maybe I am a dumbfuck....but I do know what I'm doing.And I really give a shit what assholes like you have to say.Criticism is fine.I know my idea for my first quest is different....But you saying I'll never do it, and it won't be a good game will not make me stop.It's anuses like you that make me want to continue, just so I can make you eat your own sorry-ass words.

 

[Pr()ZaC]

Meh, don't take the heat from a codex n00b who don't know what he's talking about or know the success story behind Mount & Blade.

To criticise someone is too easy, especially on the intarweb.

 

[Voltare]

yup....and I'm not saying it's actually gonna be any fun for anyone else.But I do belive that you'll be surprised when i do finish it.

 

[Pr()ZaC]

Best of luck!

 

[avalon]

heh....maybe I should have waited untill I had some better shots and a g.u.i to show off.

Maybe you should've just kept playing "game developer" in your mind.

Just what in the hell are you talking about?

Your new toy, Beyond Virtual - which is worth shit. Also goes to show that you're not cut out for the job.

And I own my own home idiot.

Considering your "awesome ideas" and "mad design skills", I sure hope you didn't give any ideas for it or help building it.

Oh yeah....I also have something that you will never have.....Female companionship.( married for 4 years)

I've been living with a fine woman for 1½ years now, but weren't not getting married because neither of us considers it "necessary". I hope you don't have kids though, you'd make a nice case example in the favor of eugenics.

If you can texture a landscape better than I can, show me. If you can create a better 3d house model....show me.

I can't, because I'm not an artist or a modeller nor am I pretending to be one, but I definitely recognize shit when I see some. I know my skills and limits as a developer, and that's why other people hop aboard later on to fill in the holes. It's clear to me that you're unskilled in every department you can (and can't) think of. And oh - landscape texturing and 3D house models is where the RPG goodness is at? That's just.. uh.. great. Dumbfuck.

And If you have a better Idea.....make a million with it.

Oh, don't you bother your little head with that - I'm working on it.

Maybe I am a dumbfuck....but I do know what I'm doing

No, you really don't. Everything you have said and done so far points to the very contrary.

But you saying I'll never do it, and it won't be a good game will not make me stop.

Oh well, it's your time you're wasting.

It's anuses like you that make me want to continue, just so I can make you eat your own sorry-ass words.

That day will never come to pass. You have already failed.

Meh, don't take the heat from a codex n00b who don't know what he's talking about or know the success story behind Mount & Blade.

I am very well aware of the story behind M&B, and I very well know what I am talking about. Those Codexers who have an idea of what game development is about/have had something to do with game development can certainly confirm what I've said. M&B is an irrelevant argument here. Just because skilled individuals made M&B come true doesn't mean that Mr. Shit-for-brains here can pull of anything even remotely resembling a game. Giving this guy even the benefit of doubt just because of M&B is absolutely ridiculous. Stupidity seems to "support" stupidity, nothing new there. Really now - is someone paying you guys to be this fucking stupid?

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

And once more the Codex shows that it's got an attitude problem. God, I haven't heard discussions like this since I left High School.

 

[callehe]

And once more the Codex shows that it's got an attitude problem. God, I haven't heard discussions like this since I left High School.

I take it you haven't visited the ESF lately eh?

as for you avalon. stop being an asshole. now.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

Here's my mediation:

(1) I don't find Voltare's "leveling down" idea particularly interesting, and it does sound like a gimmick.

(2) Voltare has said some obnoxious things that probably merit a few sharp jabs. For example, "For instance, the second quest in the game will have you guarding a stagecoach through a dangerous mountain pass.( there will be a type of mounted combat here, but out of respect for mount& blade, it won't be "played up".)"

(3) Game development is very difficult, and putting down artwork like this -- which appears to have been more or less procedurally generated via something like Bryce -- is not the hard part of it

(4) Voltare doesn't seem to have done that much design.

(5) All that said, avalon is a ridiculous asshole who demonstrates no redeeming qualities, except, maybe, his grammar / punctuation / usage. Maybe. (There are a fair number of errors.)

(6) The whole "I have a life" back and forth is really lame.

(7) As between the two, though, this has to be the lamest line given: "I've been living with a fine woman for 1½ years now, but weren't not getting married because neither of us considers it "necessary"."

(8) The claim of a supar-sekret ultra-game in development by avalon doesn't pass the straight face test.

If I were Voltare I'd just ignore avalon and walk away, particularly since avalon seems the more fluent of the two and Voltare the more thin-skinned.

 

[Pr()ZaC]

Just because skilled individuals made M&B come true doesn't mean that Mr. Shit-for-brains here can pull of anything even remotely resembling a game. Giving this guy even the benefit of doubt just because of M&B is absolutely ridiculous. Stupidity seems to "support" stupidity, nothing new there. Really now - is someone paying you guys to be this fucking stupid?

Yes, and you just got a huge raise after this post.

Why would you dismiss the success of M&B? It started with two developers, meaning, one artist and one programmer. Other big companies started with a 2 people team with good ideas or the guts to face the sad world of macroeconomics.
Give Voltare the time to mature his ideas and perhaps you'll be pleasantly suprised, instead of being negative and judge the size of an iceberg after looking at the top of it.

 

[bryce777]

Here's my mediation:

(1) I don't find Voltare's "leveling down" idea particularly interesting, and it does sound like a gimmick.

(2) Voltare has said some obnoxious things that probably merit a few sharp jabs. For example, "For instance, the second quest in the game will have you guarding a stagecoach through a dangerous mountain pass.( there will be a type of mounted combat here, but out of respect for mount& blade, it won't be "played up".)"

(3) Game development is very difficult, and putting down artwork like this -- which appears to have been more or less procedurally generated via something like Bryce -- is not the hard part of it

(4) Voltare doesn't seem to have done that much design.

(5) All that said, avalon is a ridiculous asshole who demonstrates no redeeming qualities, except, maybe, his grammar / punctuation / usage. Maybe. (There are a fair number of errors.)

(6) The whole "I have a life" back and forth is really lame.

(7) As between the two, though, this has to be the lamest line given: "I've been living with a fine woman for 1½ years now, but weren't not getting married because neither of us considers it "necessary"."

(8) The claim of a supar-sekret ultra-game in development by avalon doesn't pass the straight face test.

If I were Voltare I'd just ignore avalon and walk away, particularly since avalon seems the more fluent of the two and Voltare the more thin-skinned.

Well, he SAID it is a game engine, which is not the same as just creating a model and taking a screen shot.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

Well, he SAID it is a game engine, which is not the same as just creating a model and taking a screen shot.

Actually, he said it was a "game" not a "game engine," and he never said it was finished or even past the preliminary planning stages. If he had said, "Look at my nearly finished game engine!" and had posted these screens, I'd agree that you had a point. But it's clearly a "I'm just getting started, here's some eyecandy and vague ideas" post.

 

[avalon]

And once more the Codex shows that it's got an attitude problem. God, I haven't heard discussions like this since I left High School.

See, if he would've been content in his designated role and not try to play "game developer", everything would have been peachy - but no. They always think they're capable of something. It's the duty of every sensible being to show the dumbasses back to their place, and for that they deserve nothing less than a full salvo of bile.

as for you avalon. stop being an asshole. now.

Now? But mom, I want to play a bit longer!

(5) All that said, avalon is a ridiculous asshole who demonstrates no redeeming qualities, except, maybe, his grammar / punctuation / usage. Maybe. (There are a fair number of errors.)

What kind of qualities would you consider redeeming? Kissing ass? Lying to people who have no hope by saying that there's hope? Giving a chance to an utterly hopeless case? Having a perfect grammar?

(6) The whole "I have a life" back and forth is really lame.

You might notice that first Voltare claimed that he has a life (through the always very convenient girlfriend/marriage "argument") and I don't, to which I replied with:

(7) As between the two, though, this has to be the lamest line given: "I've been living with a fine woman for 1½ years now, but weren't not getting married because neither of us considers it "necessary"."

It didn't really go back and forth, but that doesn't really matter anyway. What goes for that line in number 7 - it's actually a lie. I really live in the Emirates and have 67 wives. No, I am actually divorced and have two children. Or maybe not. Gotta love the Internet, eh? The "u will have no gurlz, but i've been married for x years" card is my personal favourite, right after the Hitler card.

(8) The claim of a supar-sekret ultra-game in development by avalon doesn't pass the straight face test.

It's not supar-sekret nor even an ultra-game - there's just nothing worth showing.. yet. Here's some info though:

From an implementation standpoint: I'm using C++ and SDL. The engine is my own, I'm currently integrating Lua into it, and most of the underlying objects/functionality are done. I haven't still decided whether I should go for 2D pre-rendered or 3D, which is kind of the main reason for not having anything to show. I could throw a console dump of some variables at you though!

From an idea standpoint: The story is a (working) skeleton. Magic system has been completely designed. Stats/skill system is under construction. Random dialogue and quests have been designed. The three first areas of the game have been designed (in text form).

I've been programming for quite some time now and am currently employed as a programmer (no, not related to games). I've had my share of game development though, and this won't be the first game I'm doing (what I've done so far will remain a "supar-sekret" though). I can do the engine myself, but as I mentioned earlier, I'm no Michelangelo. I'll eventually have to find someone to do the graphics, but before that, there's still a whole lot of things to do.

Yes, and you just got a huge raise after this post. Why would you dismiss the success of M&B? It started with two developers, meaning, one artist and one programmer. Other big companies started with a 2 people team with good ideas or the guts to face the sad world of macroeconomics.

I'm not dismissing it - I'm saying that Voltare here is definitely not going to follow them in their footsteps.

Give Voltare the time to mature his ideas and perhaps you'll be pleasantly suprised, instead of being negative and judge the size of an iceberg after looking at the top of it.

Again, I have seen probably hundreds, if not thousands of people like him. First, they announce their awesome "games" (anything from an awesome FPS to an awesome MMORPG) and "ideas", maybe accompanied with a shitty screen capture/music track or two. Second, they just.. fail, because things got "too complicated". The third one is an optional step in their "evolution": they might team up, and that leads to a writhing lump of failure which is arguably funny to watch though.

The odds are definitely against Voltare, and especially after his comments and actions I have absolutely no reason to believe why this "game" would end up in anything more than an absolute failure.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Oh, don't get me wrong... i think more than 90% of guys claiming to make their own games will never finish one. I doubt Voltare will finish his too. I'm just saying flat out flaming the guy is a bit much since he's not attacking or trolling at all.

 

[bryce777]

Well, he SAID it is a game engine, which is not the same as just creating a model and taking a screen shot.

Actually, he said it was a "game" not a "game engine," and he never said it was finished or even past the preliminary planning stages. If he had said, "Look at my nearly finished game engine!" and had posted these screens, I'd agree that you had a point. But it's clearly a "I'm just getting started, here's some eyecandy and vague ideas" post.

Well, I think he said that in another thread. It does say they are ingame screens, but I don't know when he edited that in....

 

[avalon]

I'm just saying flat out flaming the guy is a bit much since he's not attacking or trolling at all.

Where's the fun in not flaming?

 

[Voltare]

i could sit and write a full 15 page or more post on my game idea, including how I plan to implement turn-based and rt combat.I'm sure when m&b and others like that got started, all they had to show was a few crap screens.I remember when the guy who started counter-strike( a successful game now, started out as just a mod by 1 guy...) everyone was all over him about how crap it looked, and that his idea was shit.He refined it a bit, got a team together.....and bla bla bla.I know it's hard to understand how BV works,and that a mind trained in c++ or other programing will not grasp the idea .BV is a game engine for artists.

 

[avalon]

i could sit and write a full 15 page or more post on my game idea, including how I plan to implement turn-based and rt combat.I'm sure when m&b and others like that got started, all they had to show was a few crap screens.I remember when the guy who started counter-strike( a successful game now, started out as just a mod by 1 guy...) everyone was all over him about how crap it looked, and that his idea was shit.He refined it a bit, got a team together.....and bla bla bla.I know it's hard to understand how BV works,and that a mind trained in c++ or other programing will not grasp the idea .BV is a game engine for artists.

Thank you. You just made my day. :D

 

[WouldBeCreator]

What kind of qualities would you consider redeeming? Kissing ass? Lying to people who have no hope by saying that there's hope? Giving a chance to an utterly hopeless case? Having a perfect grammar?

Well, sure. I tend to have a lot of regard for people who encourage others to pursue their ends, even if those ends are likely to fail, since I think that a creative outlet is good for people and that the experience of working on a game, even when it fails, tends to be rewarding (if frustrating). I assume you've worked on a share of failed game projects, since you say you've worked on games and, like you, I assume an extremely high fail-rate.

"Kissing ass" is something done by an inferior to a superior to curry favor. What you're accusing people here of doing is mollycoddling, which is a different charge altogether. Although I think mollycoddling can be a bad thing, trying to prevent someone from pursuing a project out of spite -- and it's hard to see anything but spite in your posts, despite your attempts to construe them as helpful advice -- is a far worse thing. Moreoever, it's not even clear that anyone is mollycoddling. Most people were hostile, at best people were respectful and encouraging but nevertheless pointed out problems with his design.

Don't get me wrong, I like to flame, too, and to start board wars. But there's a difference between going after someone established who is being a jerk and going after someone who's a newcomer to a board who's being naive. In the first case, you're serving a useful humbling function and helping to break up the lame board hierarchies that form. In the latter, you're just picking on someone because you have nothing better to do. The first scenario is, if not praiseworthy, at least not that bad. The second is contemptible.

As I said, Voltare seems a little full of himself and probably could've used a pin to the head. But not a shotgun.

 

[Elwro]

avalon, you suck. Voltare, keep working but remember every smallest bit of self-hype gets recorded somewhere in the depths of the Internet and will resurface if the hard reality dares to differ with former plans.
Holy crap, do I also sound like a pompous bastard? :shock:

 

[Voltare]

I do not mind people critiqueing my stuff.....I encourage it.Like WouldBeCreator.Like my son.And yes, I do tend to go off the deep end when I am personally attacked.And comparing me to a fat person( which I am not) who lives in his parent's basement ( which I don't----no one around here even HAS a basement)was way off base.

What I was doing with this topic was submitting an idea to those who are hardcore rpgers.
Codexer's opinions are not taken lightly by me.


And no, nothing was procedurally generated with bryce or anything else.(Terrain made with wings3d,lithunwrapped , then painted with pixia, then resized in milkshape)And yes, those are shots from within a game environment.Not the final game environment....but an actual running .exe.


And about BV....there's a guy from the studio that made Stubbs the Zombie who's also using it, as well as a few companies that have released games before.No, it's not perfect, nothing will ever be( and neither will my game).He may compare it to klik'n'create, but that just isn't accurate.When I am ready, I can also upgrade my purchase to the full source version if I want to.

My idea may be stupid---I'll have to see once I get it running in-game.And if it is, I'll start over with another idea.But I will keep plugging away, untill I have a decent single-player 3d rpg finished.

 

[crufty]

why does everyone feel the need to reinvent the wheel?

NWN or http://myweb.cableone.net/gmcnutt/nazghul.html and its ilk can be used to prototype concepts out...

 

[sheek]

The idea is still being fleshed out, I do know that this is only the first quest in a much longer game.I have the idea that the character is a mercenary, hired to clean dungeons/catacombs, etc. A powerfull character , one with a huge reputation as a bounty hunter as well.... For instance, the second quest in the game will have you guarding a stagecoach through a dangerous mountain pass.( there will be a type of mounted combat here, but out of respect for mount& blade, it won't be "played up".)

Good luck Voltare. Also I suggest you ignore the dicks who criticize you. They're not going to play your game anyway (unless they're also hypocrites). I suggest you post this on the Taleworlds forum. A few people have announced/linked indie 3D games there recently and there might be more interest.

Good luck to you too, avalon, with your game.

 

[avalon]

even if those ends are likely to fail

Usually I'd go down the same path, but I suppose I've seen one "my awesomest evars gaem" too many for my liking.

I assume you've worked on a share of failed game projects, since you say you've worked on games and, like you, I assume an extremely high fail-rate.

Indeed I have. More than I'd even like to admit.

"Kissing ass" is something done by an inferior to a superior to curry favor. What you're accusing people here of doing is mollycoddling, which is a different charge altogether.

You're right, wrong choice of words on my part.

But there's a difference between going after someone established who is being a jerk and going after someone who's a newcomer to a board who's being naive.

Yeah. In the former the "jerk" may see it coming, and beating a dead horse isn't that much fun anyway. The latter, however, will result in something much more beautiful and.. "rewarding".

avalon, you suck.

NO U

And comparing me to a fat person( which I am not) who lives in his parent's basement ( which I don't----no one around here even HAS a basement)was way off base.

I AM SO SORRY

OOPS NOT REALLY LOL

there's a guy from the studio that made Stubbs the Zombie who's also using it

So the assistant coffee machine operator got interested in game development. Big deal.

When I am ready, I can also upgrade my purchase to the full source version if I want to.

And what would you do with it? Gawk in awe at "durr sauce code", wondering whether your two classes in Basic will help you?

But I will keep plugging away, untill I have a decent single-player 3d rpg finished.

And I will keep firing away until you learn to keep your failures to yourself. Try again when you really have something to show.

Also I suggest you ignore the dicks who criticize you.

Yeah. Criticism is always bad and the dicks who criticize you are just wrong. You are right. Naturally. Be smart - be Derek Smart.

Good luck to you too, avalon, with your game.

Thanks.

--------------

And because fun doesn't stop there:

I'm having a war in another forum with a few guys who believe that stuff like Bv, torque 3d gamestudio and such are ruining the future of gaming.

"who believe that stuff like Bv, torque 3d gamestudio and such are ruining the future of gaming."..? 0 points for reading comprehension.

And i keep telling these tards...have you played a modern game? besides the purdy graphix, what have you got? nothing.

Where do you "keep telling us"? 0 points for being you.

More people being able to make games means more games to choose from.

More people thinking they're able to make games means more shit.

They sound like elitists. People who think they are better than the rest of us.

But we are. Well, most of us.

And for the next trick, raise your head, stand proud and play the Star Spangled Banner:

In BV forum, some of us is going to change not only indie game making but game making drastically. How do i know that?

I have been waiting and burning with desire for years. I was playing overhyped games, reviewing them for TV, reading their cost and screaming in anger, burning more with desire.

This Will Change. This has to change. You will change it, Hai will change it, I will change it. Committed ones will change it.

Just take a deep breath. Forget everything about the ARTIST of 21th century or highly paid but low in desire Artists.
Rimsky Korsakov worked 20 years on an opera, Vaughan Williams worked for his Pilgrim Progess opera over 22 years. Beksinski was spending MONTHS only one of his painting. Gustav Holst wrote his choral works after learning sanksrit language in India and spend his years overthere...Anton Bruckner implored for one more month life when he was dying at his bed. Just for finishing his 9th symphony. Think about scientist of burning desires and sleepless nights. And think about those blaming tools. Paychecks.

Tools? Wagner INVENTED musical instruments for HIS MUSIC. Where is the heart of the artists? Where is the Daring Attitude of a bold individual?

Irrelevant? I dont think so.

BV will be one of tools that deliver everything, if you have ONE thing for making game. Commitment.

*tear*

They will see soon what kind of hell, we will unleash upon them.

Oh, it will be hell all right - but not in the sense poor tyrot there thinks it is.