Mass Effect 1/2: Under-rated or shit?

[913]

ME3 > All two due to online co-op and variety of guns.
Kept the game installed past its shelf life.

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

inventory, looting enemies and stats isn't RPG

O rly?

DEFINE RPG THEN

Seriously, all you ME2 fans, just admit that you had no patience for the RPG elements in ME1, rather than trying to deny that they are RPG elements.

It's okay, we get it, you've grown up and no longer have time for that shit. WE UNDERSTAND.

You're right I let my emotional engagement cloud my judgment regarding the whole RPG-ness. Its just that I felt disenfranchised when it turned out that MaleShep couldn't romance Garrus. What kind of role playing and character development is that? Even though we're grown up, BioWare treats us like babies!

 

[Valestein]

ME2 is what started the trend of "Don't like how something was implemented before? Remove it! (Instead of improving on it)".

 

[Marsal]

I don't think that I've ever played a game that had worse gameplay than Mass Effect 1.

This sums it up well. However bad or popamole ME2 is, you can't get more BSB than ME1. It's just a shitty game, without any redeeming qualities.

I played ME1 and ME2 in succession and ME2, with all of its faults, is vastly superior to ME1. I don't even care if it's a dumbed down RPG or a shooter or whatever, I don't care that they fixed it by axing shitty elements instead of improving on them (it's not like they could have salvaged the train wreck they started). It was at least "good for what it is" game. Like Skyrim and Risen 2, among others. ME1 was just complete garbage. Like DA2 and Oblivion.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

ME1: Good for what it is.
ME2: Good for what it is.
ME3: Utter shit.

 

[Telengard]

This statement shows me you have absolutely no idea how most 3D game environments are created or what is possible with the tools available today. Your analogy is bullshit. As I said, I doubt you have ever actually used any game SDK extensively. If you're going solely based on the NWN tools, you are colossally out of date.

Hay! I have never said their engine isn't capable of more. All I said was they have self-imposed a restriction in their design concepts. Due to their self-imposed restrictions, when you are in a Bioware game, your character will be running across a lot of 10x50 balconies, 10x10 stairs, 10x10 landings, and 50x50 rooms. That is the space they provide for you to play around in. That they consistently give you the same space in every game means that you find yourself often running up a lot of 10x10 stairs to 10x50 balconies (very common). And so on and so forth. That is a design choice that they have made. They have their reason; I merely point out that they did it.

Crates are the de factor standard filler item in basically every game ever made. Got an environment you need to fill up? Add crates! This goes back to the original Doom. How does BioWare using crates in all their games equate to reusing assets? In addition, games like Mass Effect have to take these into account even more, because now levels have to be designed with cover and line of sight in mind, rather than just aesthetics and pathfinding.

I didn't blame them for using crates. That they choose to fill all their games with the same three crates is a design choice that they have made. As is filling so many rooms with the same bookshelf. By doing so, by making that choice, they cause the places that you the player get to run around in to be filled-in in the same way across all their games. I am merely pointing out another aspect of their homogenous spatial design. If you use the same objects, you tend to get the same internal space.

Developers stick to formulas because a) they know they work b) they're familiar to fans and won't alienate anyone c) the same people work between games and have finite ideas. I agree that BioWare could afford to branch out, but as a business making mass-market entertainment, it's also probably not a major concern at this point... and I'm not sure that has much on the tiled look of some of their art assets.

I am here merely relating a personal anecdote, when I once forgot which of their games I was playing in the middle of some companion's complaining speech, about her family or something.

All I have been saying all along is Bioware has increased it's ability to provide an illusion of a more freeform world, but the part that you the player actually run around on, the place where the actual game happens, is often the same spatially.

 

[attackfighter]

underrated on codex, overrated on mainstream sites

ME2 is what started the trend of "Don't like how something was implemented before? Remove it! (Instead of improving on it)".

Well that's probably been going on for thousands of years, but Oblivion was the first infamous video game to do it.

 

[Palomides]

Absolutely trash games. Played the first one, managed to 'charm' the final antagonist so he shoots himself in the head, and get a pop-up of 'Charismatic' during this supposedly emotional / powerful moment.

Let us not forget the Captain Americana making his triumphant rise from the rubble moments later...ugh. I did laugh out loud quiet often though.

So, this game is a comedy.

 

[Marsal]

I did laugh out loud quiet often though.

You laughed out loud, but did so quietly? So it was more of a snicker? A chuckle? Giggle?

Spoiler

 

[MicoSelva]

I liked (and still like) ME1, despite its flaws. I was really disappointed in ME2, at first, but grew to appreciate it for what it is after playing ME3, which was the same but even worse.

I still consider the transition between ME1 (hybrid shooter/action RPG) and ME2 (shooter with plot) as the symbol of Bioware's fall as an RPG developer.

 

[Palomides]

I did laugh out loud quiet often though.

You laughed out loud, but did so quietly? So it was more of a snicker? A chuckle? Giggle?

Spoiler

We say 'snigger' in the civilised world. M:

 

[Andyman Messiah]

ME1: Utter shit.
ME2: Good for what it is.
ME3: Almost good for what it is.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

ME2 is what started the trend of "Don't like how something was implemented before? Remove it! (Instead of improving on it)".

Secret dialogue between Andyman Messiah and Mass Effect 2.

Andyman: "Most of the ME1 features that you removed or "dumbed down" were stupid as shit."

Mass Effect 2: "I agree."

Andyman: "And the Mako is number one on the list. I mean, nevermind that its a fucking piece of shit; WHY is a fucking CAR the only way the Ebon Hawk's crew can land on planets that lack proper landing pads? I mean, did the ME1 team watch Star Trek: Nemesis and thought "the enterprise have a car! hey that's brilliant!" or something?"

Mass Effect 2: "You know I can't say anything."

Andyman: "--but then an intern, a talking horse or someone else with a brilliant mind, came by and told them it was retarded so they were all "grr, we'll show that talking horse!" so they ripped off Picard's off-road racing adventure. I mean, what the fuck..."

Mass Effect 2: "..."

Andyman: "How the fuck do you even get it on board again? It can jump, well boost, but that's only a few meters and in any case I certainly don't think it's enough at all to get it back onto a ship. Maybe its a GTA stunt jump challenge thing. Maybe you need a long stretch so the mako can achieve maximum speed, hit a fucking ramp and then boost into the garage? Isn't that dangerous, not only for the people on duty in the garage? And what about the mass effect core next door? What if the mako comes in at such speed that it goes through the entire ship, crashes into a wall, explodes, what if its cannon fires a shot? The mako is dangerous. A shuttle would be better."

Mass Effect 2: "The Ebon Hawk now has a shuttle."

Andyman: "And that gives me hope. Not a lot, but its enough that there's someone at BioWare that can look at something stupid and go, "yeah, that's stupid, we can't have that.""

Mass Effect 3: "Can I come in now?"

Andyman: "Oh fuck."

 

[913]

Lol if anything i like the removal of mini games for the 3rd game.

 

[Marsal]

We say 'snigger' in the civilised world. M:

Do they teach English in your soon to be thirdworldia? Take some lessons while you still can.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Lol if anything i like the removal of mini games for the 3rd game.

Actually one of the few things ME3 did good. Wish they had removed planet scanning though.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

Posting after Andyman in a thread.


ME1
Pro: neat futurey music, some nice planetary environments (well mostly Noveria really), introduction of the XTREME SHEPARDS UNIVERSE which I rather like (way more than what Star Wars has become)
Contra: horrific gameplay (EDIT: well, just horrifically bland at least), often terrible interface combined with an idiotic loot system

ME2
Pro: still good music but more generic than before so a step back really, MASSIVELY improved gameplay (as in, actually fun to play), better looking and more varied areas, some really good characters and missions, skill system while in some ways simplified still feels more interesting than the last one, atmosphere/tone of the game feels a lot less serious and therefore better than ME1
Contra: Idiotic "framing" story, even more annoying minigames than last time which can at least be cheated away mostly, fairly samey enemies

ME3
Pro: Further improved gameplay with better enemies, surprisingly fun multiplayer system, further improved area design
Contra: Rather forgettable music mostly, extremely hamfisted EMOSHUNAL ENGAGEMENT, fuck this fucking ending ffs, characters seem somehow less interesting than last time

 

[Turjan]

Andyman: "And the Mako is number one on the list. I mean, nevermind that its a fucking piece of shit; WHY is a fucking CAR the only way the Ebon Hawk's crew can land on planets that lack proper landing pads? I mean, did the ME1 team watch Star Trek: Nemesis and thought "the enterprise have a car! hey that's brilliant!" or something?"

Mass Effect 2: "You know I can't say anything."

Andyman: "--but then an intern, a talking horse or someone else with a brilliant mind, came by and told them it was retarded so they were all "grr, we'll show that talking horse!" so they ripped off Picard's off-road racing adventure. I mean, what the fuck..."

Mass Effect 2: "..."

Andyman: "How the fuck do you even get it on board again? It can jump, well boost, but that's only a few meters and in any case I certainly don't think it's enough at all to get it back onto a ship. Maybe its a GTA stunt jump challenge thing. Maybe you need a long stretch so the mako can achieve maximum speed, hit a fucking ramp and then boost into the garage? Isn't that dangerous, not only for the people on duty in the garage? And what about the mass effect core next door? What if the mako comes in at such speed that it goes through the entire ship, crashes into a wall, explodes, what if its cannon fires a shot? The mako is dangerous. A shuttle would be better."

Mass Effect 2:

Now it depends on thrusters to stay afloat and still can't fly

 

[Andyman Messiah]

As they say in the land of avec fromage: touch, eh.

While just as ridiculous and shitty, I still think the Hammerhead is far more useful and capable.

 

[913]

Fuck the lava jump sequence.

 

[Palomides]

We say 'snigger' in the civilised world. M:

Do they teach English in your soon to be thirdworldia? Take some lessons while you still can.

Yes, I shall take more English lessons in Australia. Imbecile.

On-topic, I am surprised Codexians are not in favour of the RPG-lite game play of the first, as opposed to the more action oriented of the sequels.

Essentially, they are fine as action games, and should drop the RPG label.

 

[Marsal]

Yes, I shall take more English lessons in Australia. Imbecile.

Good. Maybe then you can avoid looking like an idiot every time you post. Until you do, STFU and crawl back in your hole, you illiterate faggot.

 

[Palomides]

Yes, I shall take more English lessons in Australia. Imbecile.

Good. Maybe then you can avoid looking like an idiot every time you post. Until you do, STFU and crawl back in your hole, you illiterate faggot.

Oh, how scathing. Fuck off, you incredible loser.

 

[Marsal]

Yes, I shall take more English lessons in Australia. Imbecile.

Good. Maybe then you can avoid looking like an idiot every time you post. Until you do, STFU and crawl back in your hole, you illiterate faggot.

Oh, how scathing. Fuck off, you incredible loser.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

On-topic, I am surprised Codexians are not in favour of the RPG-lite game play of the first, as opposed to the more action oriented of the sequels.

And why would we? I personally prefer actual RPGs with actual RPG design. None of the Mass Effect games have any place in the genre regardless of how many skills you can put points in and cool helmets you can equip but at least Mass Effect 2 is a fun shooter without pretentious retarded writing.