Mass Effect Legendary Edition remaster trilogy

[moon knight]

Wanted to add my 2 cents to the discussion about the series being better without the reapers. I agree with the consensus that the series would be better. I think it worked well in the first game. I remember thinking Sovereign was really cool and intimidating in the first game. It would be cool if stopping Sovereign delayed the reapers for hundreds of years or so. That way the threat would be in the background and could influence decisions but wouldn't be the main focus after the first game.

Personally i liked Shamus Young's take that the later games should have been about exploring the galaxy with the goal to find and learn ways to deal with them - they'd still be a threat (via indirect means like the Geth), just not a direct one.

I disagree. The trilogy has many problems, but by keeping it focused on the reapers, they told a story from start to finish. With Shamus Young's take, Bioware would've created an unfocused and disjointed collection of stories that lead nowhere. How do I know? Well, it's the route they took with Dragon Age.

 

[J1M]

Wanted to add my 2 cents to the discussion about the series being better without the reapers. I agree with the consensus that the series would be better. I think it worked well in the first game. I remember thinking Sovereign was really cool and intimidating in the first game. It would be cool if stopping Sovereign delayed the reapers for hundreds of years or so. That way the threat would be in the background and could influence decisions but wouldn't be the main focus after the first game.

Personally i liked Shamus Young's take that the later games should have been about exploring the galaxy with the goal to find and learn ways to deal with them - they'd still be a threat (via indirect means like the Geth), just not a direct one.

I disagree. The trilogy has many problems, but by keeping it focused on the reapers, they told a story from start to finish. With Shamus Young's take, Bioware would've created an unfocused and disjointed collection of stories that lead nowhere. How do I know? Well, it's the route they took with Dragon Age.

There's so much wrong with this post.

First, the hamfisted mashing of Collector and Reaper antagonists was not focused.

Second, they did not tell a story from start to finish. To say as much suggests you think ME2 and the ending of ME3 were intentional, or planned, but we know that none of those things are the case from the lips of the devs themselves.

Third, people love episodic crime stories. Look at how many TV shows with that formula stay on the air for a decade. The plot advancement can take place in the characters, it doesn't need to be about punching the same villain over and over.

Finally, the stakes don't need to be set at maximum for every single chapter in a trilogy.

 

[Bad Sector]

The only flaw with this approach is that in what seem like a decrescendo of sorts. In the first game you actually got to fight a reaper in Sovereign and then after that you just look for ways to deal with them. It's like the biggest baddie of the series is in game 1.

You'd still have to deal with the rest of the Reapers at some point, your actions in ME1 simply delayed them, you didn't stop them.

The games could still end with a big fat bombastic Reaper invasion (though personally i'd prefer a different outcome), but that would be after you did all you could to weaken them so that actually being able to fight hundreds of Reapers when a single one took the entire galaxy's combined firepower to take down would make sense.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The series ending with a looming reaper invasion in the near future(~thousand years or more) that you simply delayed would have been interesting.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

The series ending with a looming reaper invasion in the near future(~thousand years or more) that you simply delayed would have been interesting.

They clearly had no idea what motivation to give the reapers so they get to avoid that trap too. I personally was fine without reapers having an explicit motivation. As Sovereign said, it's beyond our understanding. Maybe they're essentially gods cleansing the universe like a great flood from the Bible.

 

[Ravielsk]

The series ending with a looming reaper invasion in the near future(~thousand years or more) that you simply delayed would have been interesting.

Technically that is how Mass Effect 1 ended. At the end of that game reapers were stuck in the dark space between galaxies and it was made pretty clear that they are not getting to Milky Way any time soon. Them getting overcoming that distance in like... what 2-4 years of ingame time? is just a plot hole created by the incompetents that took over after the original author. Because otherwise what was even the point of Sovereign and the Citadel if the reapers could arrive in reasonable time without Mass relays?

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

The series ending with a looming reaper invasion in the near future(~thousand years or more) that you simply delayed would have been interesting.

Technically that is how Mass Effect 1 ended. At the end of that game reapers were stuck in the dark space between galaxies and it was made pretty clear that they are not getting to Milky Way any time soon. Them getting overcoming that distance in like... what 2-4 years of ingame time? is just a plot hole created by the incompetents that took over after the original author. Because otherwise what was even the point of Sovereign and the Citadel if the reapers could arrive in reasonable time without Mass relays?

The reapers would have arrived that very day and wiped everyone out. But the alien species didn't even do anything with the extra time they were afforded anyway. They were bailed out at the last minute by the magic space laser plans they found. Does anyone know how the space laser functions technically? How could it destroy every synthetic or blend every organic and synthetic?

 

[Ravielsk]

The reapers would have arrived that very day and wiped everyone out. But the alien species didn't even do anything with the extra time they were afforded anyway. They were bailed out at the last minute by the magic space laser plans they found. Does anyone know how the space laser functions technically? How could it destroy every synthetic or blend every organic and synthetic?

No, probably not even the author knows. Its all a last minute deus ex machina to resolve a hole the writers themselves dug out.

Like I already wrote somewhere else. Mass effect trilogy is three trilogies mascaraing as one.
Mass Effect 1 is the first part of a trilogy that never got its second and third part.
Mass Effect 2 is the reboot of 1 and it also never received any of its sequels.
Mass Effect 3 is the final chapter of a trilogy that never got its part one and two.

The star child was a inevitability because its the only way you can resolve this sort of plot.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

The reapers would have arrived that very day and wiped everyone out. But the alien species didn't even do anything with the extra time they were afforded anyway. They were bailed out at the last minute by the magic space laser plans they found. Does anyone know how the space laser functions technically? How could it destroy every synthetic or blend every organic and synthetic?

No, probably not even the author knows. Its all a last minute deus ex machina to resolve a hole the writers themselves dug out.

Like I already wrote somewhere else. Mass effect trilogy is three trilogies mascaraing as one.
Mass Effect 1 is the first part of a trilogy that never got its second and third part.
Mass Effect 2 is the reboot of 1 and it also never received any of its sequels.
Mass Effect 3 is the final chapter of a trilogy that never got its part one and two.

The star child was a inevitability because its the only way you can resolve this sort of plot.

It's funny the series ended with such an absurd and unexplainable weapon when initially they tried to have an explanation for all the technology. Look at the codex from Mass Effect 1, that is fantastic sci fi writing.

I think you could make an argument that the Mass Effect universe is the best sci fi universe ever created. The various alien species are fantastic. The lore is great from the Krogan wars-genophage and turians getting their spot on the council to quarians getting bullied off their home planet by the geth to batarians becoming terrorists because the council let humans colonize a system they claimed was theirs.

 

[moon knight]

Because otherwise what was even the point of Sovereign and the Citadel if the reapers could arrive in reasonable time without Mass relays?

Assaulting the Citadel is a blow in the hearth of the galactic civilization, and the surprise attack basically cuts off all communications and halves the capabilities of the different species to organize and mount a resistance.

Assuming they can travel at the speed of light thanks to the mass effect field, them resting 2-3 light years from the most remote system of the Milky Way isn't the unbelievable. Also, travelling to the nearest Mass Relay was their last resort.

 

[Nutria]

Look at the codex from Mass Effect 1, that is fantastic sci fi writing.

And more importantly, it was so well planned-out to be a basis for sequels. They created all this lore to make a universe that was coherent and it made sense, but they also didn't paint future writers into a corner where they were trapped and couldn't be creative.

And then in ME2 they just threw it all away because OMG we have Martin Sheen now so we don't need writing.

 

[Ravielsk]

Because otherwise what was even the point of Sovereign and the Citadel if the reapers could arrive in reasonable time without Mass relays?

Assaulting the Citadel is a blow in the hearth of the galactic civilization, and the surprise attack basically cuts off all communications and halves the capabilities of the different species to organize and mount a resistance.

Assuming they can travel at the speed of light thanks to the mass effect field, them resting 2-3 light years from the most remote system of the Milky Way isn't the unbelievable. Also, travelling to the nearest Mass Relay was their last resort.

That is nice and all but ultimately a retcon and a lame one. For one it assumes that galactic civilizations would just all centralize on the Citadel which all things considered is a dumb gamble, second if you can just travel for 2-3 light years to the nearest relay then there is no point in leaving anyone behind for a "surprise attack" when you can just get to the relay with your whole armada and blitz directly to the citadel and just take it. One reaper was more than enough, two or three would have literary 0 issues with doing the same.

The original script made it obvious that the Citadel was mainly there as a Relay that would allow the Reapers to get to Milky way in a timely manner and its the only explanation that would make sense considering the events of the story. Because if the Reapers did not really need to take then there was no reason for Sovereign to throw the Geth at it, nor was there a reason to do anything with Saren or anything else. Just build up your synthetic army in the background, send a signal and wait for your pals to arrive in 2-3 years. Anything else just needlessly exposes you and gives the galactic community time to prepare, which shock of all shocks it did.

 

[moon knight]

For one it assumes that galactic civilizations would just all centralize on the Citadel which all things considered is a dumb gamble

That is established in Mass Effect 1, in the conversations with Sovereign and Vigil.

 

[J1M]

The reapers would have arrived that very day and wiped everyone out. But the alien species didn't even do anything with the extra time they were afforded anyway. They were bailed out at the last minute by the magic space laser plans they found. Does anyone know how the space laser functions technically? How could it destroy every synthetic or blend every organic and synthetic?

No, probably not even the author knows. Its all a last minute deus ex machina to resolve a hole the writers themselves dug out.

Like I already wrote somewhere else. Mass effect trilogy is three trilogies mascaraing as one.
Mass Effect 1 is the first part of a trilogy that never got its second and third part.
Mass Effect 2 is the reboot of 1 and it also never received any of its sequels.
Mass Effect 3 is the final chapter of a trilogy that never got its part one and two.

The star child was a inevitability because its the only way you can resolve this sort of plot.

Not advocating for it, but technically "it was all a dream/indoctrination" is an equally sloppy resolution.

 

[Ravielsk]

For one it assumes that galactic civilizations would just all centralize on the Citadel which all things considered is a dumb gamble

That is established in Mass Effect 1, in the conversations with Sovereign and Vigil.

Yes, but the Reaper plan in ME1 was not entirely pointless without it. Them invading through the Citadel was mainly about getting into our galaxy, the galactic government being there or not changed very little and was ultimately just a well calculated bonus. In ME2 and ME3 however they flipped the script and getting into our galaxy was just a neat bonus to collapsing the central government. Which is what makes it dumb. ME1 version works regardless of what organic species do with the Citadel, ME2-3 version makes the Reapers look like a bunch of lazy space boomers.

Not advocating for it, but technically "it was all a dream/indoctrination" is an equally sloppy resolution.

Well, yeah. No ending can save a poorly structured story but it can at least make sense. Indoctrination might be a lazy solution but at least it logically fits, the reaper having a giant space magic beam stashed on the Citadel does not.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

Well, yeah. No ending can save a poorly structured story but it can at least make sense. Indoctrination might be a lazy solution but at least it logically fits, the reaper having a giant space magic beam stashed on the Citadel does not.

It also makes sense that Shepard would battle against indoctrination, no one has been around more reaper tech and actual reapers then Shepard (besides Saren because Sovereign was his "ship.") So it's odd they never show Shepard battling it at all. The dream sequences were odd and they were widely panned. They work a lot better as some sort of indoctrination but I don't believe that was bioware's intent.

I want to touch on how hilariously bad the control ending and synthesis endings are. Aren't these the ideologies of two of the trilogy's main villains? Saren was an advocate for synthesis and Illusive Man for control. Shepard even says, "so the Illusive man was right?" How funny is that you told him he was a retard for thinking control was a viable solution. Saren isn't quite as obvious but he wanted to work with the Reapers and coexist and actually became an organic/synthetic mix himself. The entire goal was to destroy the reapers and suddenly Shepard changes his mind? The villains were right apparently.

 

[Togukawa]

Not advocating for it, but technically "it was all a dream/indoctrination" is an equally sloppy resolution.

Sloppy yes, but still better than the actual ending they shat out. I mean, they would have you believe that the good guys designed a galaxywide deathlaser that you activate by shooting a power conduit, and Shepard decides to walk towards it as it starts exploding. And that's one of the less retarded variations.

 

[jackofshadows]

It still baffiles me just how massive meltdown some people have over ME3 ending. I wish I could emotionally invest so strongly in a game, let alone ME3. I mean yeah, the ending sucked but it was just the ending, right? Right?

 

[Caim]

It still baffiles me just how massive meltdown some people have over ME3 ending. I wish I could emotionally invest so strongly in a game, let alone ME3. I mean yeah, the ending sucked but it was just the ending, right? Right?

Imagine jacking off for over half a decade and your orgasm gets ruined.

It's a bit like that.

 

[Trojan_generic]

It still baffiles me just how massive meltdown some people have over ME3 ending. I wish I could emotionally invest so strongly in a game, let alone ME3. I mean yeah, the ending sucked but it was just the ending, right? Right?

This kind of stories and games don't come out so often that one should just go and shit on their own story as an ending. Compare with Star Wars new episodes (not the Goofy ones, the 4th - 6th).
Edit: I'm not saying those were much better. But think of the effort that went into creating the universe.

 

[Togukawa]

Such big budget sci fi rpgs are incredibly rare. The combination of the high production values and the most mindbogglingly retarded writing I have ever seen just pisses me off to no end.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

I want to touch on how hilariously bad the control ending and synthesis endings are. Aren't these the ideologies of two of the trilogy's main villains? Saren was an advocate for synthesis and Illusive Man for control. Shepard even says, "so the Illusive man was right?" How funny is that you told him he was a retard for thinking control was a viable solution. Saren isn't quite as obvious but he wanted to work with the Reapers and coexist and actually became an organic/synthetic mix himself. The entire goal was to destroy the reapers and suddenly Shepard changes his mind? The villains were right apparently.

The Illusive Man did not have the power behind his ambitions, so yes, as far as Shepard knew, that was doomed to failure.

Imagine some idiot near the mafia skyscraper with a rusty revolver saying "I can smoke these assholes"; you painstakingly try to explain that the mafia can only be undone by carefully undoing their political connections, cutting off their money pipelines and removing their moles in the police forces. Then all of a sudden you're given command of three Tolkien dragons and a fleet of M1 Abrams; oh look, now the mafia HQ can be undone through brute force. The idiot with his revolver was "right" that force can be an option after all, but he was still in way over his head and you were right to treat him like an overly optimistic retard.

Shepard never said, "control is possible but not by you," he dismissed the very idea over and over again. It's terrible writing because they never lay the groundwork for control to be a viable option at any point of the trilogy.

 

[KVVRR]

I want to touch on how hilariously bad the control ending and synthesis endings are. Aren't these the ideologies of two of the trilogy's main villains? Saren was an advocate for synthesis and Illusive Man for control. Shepard even says, "so the Illusive man was right?" How funny is that you told him he was a retard for thinking control was a viable solution. Saren isn't quite as obvious but he wanted to work with the Reapers and coexist and actually became an organic/synthetic mix himself. The entire goal was to destroy the reapers and suddenly Shepard changes his mind? The villains were right apparently.

The Illusive Man did not have the power behind his ambitions, so yes, as far as Shepard knew, that was doomed to failure.

Imagine some idiot near the mafia skyscraper with a rusty revolver saying "I can smoke these assholes"; you painstakingly try to explain that the mafia can only be undone by carefully undoing their political connections, cutting off their money pipelines and removing their moles in the police forces. Then all of a sudden you're given command of three Tolkien dragons and a fleet of M1 Abrams; oh look, now the mafia HQ can be undone through brute force. The idiot with his revolver was "right" that force can be an option after all, but he was still in way over his head and you were right to treat him like an overly optimistic retard.

And that idiot's name?

 

[Tyrr]

When I say "The ME ending sucked", I mean most of ME3 sucked (ME3 is the ending of the ME trilogy).
I hate that "95% of ME3 was great, just the last 15 minutes were bad" gaslighting.

 

[jackofshadows]

ME3 was great, just the last 15 minutes were bad

That's exactly how it was.