Interview MCA on Storytelling

[Wyrmlord]

Well, storyfaggotry has always been linked to the decline. When RPGs become defined more by their ancillary elements like story and writing rather than actual RPG mechanics, you can do away with the RPG parts and as long as you have a slightly more involved story with some dialogue options and some customization, you still get to call it an RPG. That's the route Bioware took once they realized that their story formula could dispense with RPG gameplay, and it's worked out fine for them: make crappy action games, coat them in a story and a few choices and hey presto! An RPG. It's like McDonalds sandwiches: crap meat and bread assemblages which get their only taste from the very sweet sauces added to them.

Did it work out fine for them?

Mass Effect did not sell as well as was hoped for an extremely hyped and high profile game. Remember that it barely even touched 1 million in sales after one year.

The amazing thing is that this formula HAS NOT WORKED commercially.

 

[JaySn]

It's more complex. Yes, but whats the difference? A movie just has more options to present it. The mime does it with none of them.

Hmmmm. Take famous dictators. They use oral storytelling too. For example: Hitler. Were his speeches actually well written/consistent and so on? No, it was how he used his voice and presence to rally people that got him were he was. Most politicans are really good storytellers. Bullshit they may let out.

How often did Hitler just wing it, walk out into a bar and start screaming about how the Jews killed his dog? . . . Pretty often in the early days, I guess.

I guess I correlate writing with preparation for storytelling, in the context of games and movies. Without it, you're kinda fucked, unlike a street-performing mime who repeats the same three acts over and over again.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It's not like MCA is saying that stats are irrelevant in RPG's or that Mass Effect is the pinnacle of the genre!

Nobody even mentioned stats. They have nothing to do with this conversation or being a storyfag. I'm something of a storyfag at times. That does not translate to swallowing up shitty stories with decent (debatable, but I'll let it slide) presentation like Avellone is.

But he isn't "swallowing up the shitty stories". In your own words:

He said he is increasingly happy with the way storytelling is progressing.

"increasingly happy" != "fully satisfied". He complements that by saying that "narrative design is a respected element in games today", which is true (whether you think that respect actually translates into quality is another matter)

Let's say that I'm increasingly happy with Brazil because I feel it's less of a shithole than it was a while ago. That doesn't necessarily mean I believe it's perfect, or even just "very good" - in fact, I may very well think it's still pretty fucking shitty, just less shitty than it was.

MCA doesn't seem to think the modern take on narrative is pretty fucking shitty, but you can't expect a developer to be as EXTREME as a codexer anyway, specially during an interview.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

How often did Hitler just wing it, walk out into a bar and start screaming about how the Jews killed his dog? . . . Pretty often in the early days, I guess.

Yes, and certain people probably applauded him. Hitler is famous for beeing a good speaker/storyteller.

It doesn't matter if its made up on the spot. It can still be good storytelling. Actors do improvise all the time. So, no you're not fucked.

Of course its always better when good writing goes hand in hand with good storytelling. They are still two seperate things.

My own opinion is actually: Got better, but thats only natural with new technical possiblities (motion capture, more money spent on VAs/graphical improvment)

It still has flaws all over though. And we're still not even remotly explored all the storytelling abilites gaming can offer.

 

[J_C]

For fucks sake guys do you even understand what was he talking about? MCA was talking about storytelling techniques, how videogames present us the narrative, not about the quality of the stories!

It is you who are putting words like "I like Dragon Age II's story" in his mouth.

But why I am surprised? Every interview about MCA is full with "I told you he is a derp" comments from the :monocle: codex community. It is like you want to prove that there isn't any game designer in this world who is worthy of the Codex's approval.

 

[deus101]

Whenever people talk about storytelling...

RPG becomes "ROLE YOU PLAY IN STORY".

Tbh that's a better interpretation of the "role" part of rpg than "I will be the orc that kills people with an axe, Jimmy will be the human who kills people with arrows and Jane will be the elf that kills people with fireballs".

Problem is whenever you go to this super fiscal and myopic description of RPG's....THEN EVERYTHING IS AN RPG!

 

[deus101]

For fucks sake guys do you even understand what was he talking about? MCA was talking about storytelling techniques, how videogames present us the narrative, not about the quality of the stories!

It is you who are putting words like "I like Dragon Age II's story" in his mouth.

But why I am surprised? Every interview about MCA is full with "I told you he is a derp" comments from the :monocle: codex community. It is like you want to prove that there isn't any game designer in this world who is worthy of the Codex's approval.

NO TRUE CODEXER FUCKING DAMNIT!

I was the first to compliment him in the last news story....anyway...Good story is BIOWARE STORY!

You got an example of a good RPG story?

Remember...an RPG module is not a STORY! Thats the thing, it can never be a cohesive structured piece, RPG's need content not epics....Bioware tries to deliver epics and every company making games will fails just as much as they do if they try the same.

 

[Roguey]

The main antagonist’s frustrations in Dead Money are against human nature and what he needed to do to subvert human nature to reach his goals… it’s fair to say that when he’s venting at the player during the DLC, he’s speaking with my perspective.

Avellone, Avellone never changes. Always with the self-inserts.

Subversion – not at all, it’s just what I tend to do on occasion, and while I argue that we did question the Force, we weren’t out to subvert the first game at all, and in fact, I thought the first game was excellent.

Whenever possible, you need to build upon the original game when you can, as players will have an expectation when they buy the sequel that they’re playing a title that shares a similar experience to the first one they played and enjoyed.

So what was up with Pungent Cheese Brie?

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

For fucks sake guys do you even understand what was he talking about? MCA was talking about storytelling techniques, how videogames present us the narrative, not about the quality of the stories!

Actually, I'd object to this statement more than the other one. Story quality has, in general, gone up over time as it has become more of a focus in the industry. Most games that wouldn't even have much of a narrative in the past now are required to have them. Could you imagine a game having the narrative content of something like DOOM or Final Fight nowadays (whether or not this is a good thing is another matter) in the age where every corridor SPESS MERINGUE SHOOTAH has famous voice actors and such? Story matters a lot now, and I'd say the overall quality has gone up. Certainly, there seem to be less standout games, but the reality of the situation....eh...not sure.

My issue with his statement is that I think he's full of shit: storytelling techniques haven't fundamentally changed since, at least, 1999. You can easily find games there and before that showcase every single model of game-based storytelling that are in use today. The techniques haven't changed much at all. Compare System Shock 2 to Bioshock, Baldur's Gate to Dragon Age, Half Life to pretty much every FPS, and so on. I can't think of a single instance of radically new storytelling in games.

 

[Excommunicator]

Get the fuck over it.

 

[Regdar]

Mr. Chris Avellone (peace be upon Him) knows how to keep the Codex's respect and admiration, while pretending to be cool and mainstream to appease his evil bosses.

 

[commie]

doesn't allow for creative storytelling. Deal with it

Jesus I've a thirst for a Gold Box level 1 Thief raping just about now....

 

[Mastermind]

"increasingly happy" != "fully satisfied".

I never said he was "fully" satisfied, but it's clear from this interview and previous ones that he's quite happy with the state of the gaming industry. Oblivion + Fallout is a good combination to him. It is to me too, but that's pretty much burning at the stake level heresy by codex standards.

 

[Jaesun]

This doesn't allow for creative storytelling. Deal with it

y do you lie?

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Well, whatever else is said, I at least like his perspective on Dead Money. It didn't particularly occur to me when playing it, but Elijah was basically a crummy GM trying to forcibly railroad a group of unruly powergamers through his "awesome" heist plot. The good thing that comes out of a session like that, though, is that your average group of gamers will hate the idea of being forced to do the GM's bidding so much that they'll actively try to subvert the him and accidentally start doing some real roleplaying.

Actually I never thought of it like that, having just finished Dead Money for the first time.

But yea, I can totally see the parallel between Dead Money NPCs being powergamers (a Fallout PC is almost always powergaming ubermensch of the Wasteland), seeing how GURPS powergaming characters would pretty much be exactly like that (but probably with less limbs and more dwarfism/gigantism).