Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

[J_C]

Why the only scene people complain about twin snakes are that missile surfing scene?

Because that is on a whole new level, when it comes to stupidness.

 

[Trotsky]

Why do you feel so threatened? People like you appear to be emotionally invested in this argument. I've repeatedly said Twin Snakes has flaws but its pros outweigh the cons.

Metal Gear Solid has never been a realistic series so drop the phony outrage. A combination of espionage, conspiracy, rambo, and the supernatural has always been the draw.

I'm just trying to save a soul from playing Twin Snakes, thanks to your recommendation.

Sorry but I'm simply informing people of their choices. For someone new to the series MGS1 is outdated and looks hideous.

Why the only scene people complain about twin snakes are that missile surfing scene?

Out of all the scenes they could nitpick that's one of the better ones. Most of the redone cutscenes are actually pretty cool and spice up the action.

 

[Jick Magger]

Not really, if anything I think the graphics for MGS1 have aged significantly better than a lot of its contemporaries on the PS1, especially because a lot of choices in regards to presentation were made with the limits of the console in mind. Plus this is the RPG Codex we're talking about, not IGN. I'm sure he can handle PS1 era graphics.

I consider The Twin Snakes to be just an interesting, John Woo-esque re-interpretation of the original game, that is in no way a real substitute for the original, better graphics or not. The action is well-done, but cartoonish and for the most part unfitting even for a Metal Gear Solid game, totally non-indicative of the style the later series would take. New voice acting's a mixed bag (revised script + removal of silly accents/A lot of awkward stiffness from Paul Eiding and Jennifer Hale), gameplay's now completely broken and piss-easy since they adopted elements of MGS2 that were totally unsuited to the environments of MGS1, etc. Only play it after you've played MGS1.

 

[dunno lah]

I'm having deja vu here.

 

[Trotsky]

...gameplay's now completely broken and piss-easy since they adopted elements of MGS2 that were totally unsuited to the environments of MGS1, etc.

The difficulty was fine and in some ways improved you were simply familiar with the map, bosses, and gameplay style from Sons of Liberty.

 

[Jick Magger]

...gameplay's now completely broken and piss-easy since they adopted elements of MGS2 that were totally unsuited to the environments of MGS1, etc.

The difficulty was fine and in some ways improved you were simply familiar with the map, bosses, and gameplay style from Sons of Liberty.

Not really, no. The punishment for being caught is more severe, for sure, but avoiding being caught is now easier than ever since the levels from MGS1 are in no way designed to account for the ability to shoot people from first person or shoot from behind cover, which leads to you being able to incapacitate guards from far out of their field of vision and them not being able to do much about it because the levels weren't designed with those gameplay mechanics in mind.

This is kinda exemplified best by the Revolver Ocelot fight. In MGS1, you had to avoid him as best as possible, try not to touch any of the wires attached to the explosives, wait for him to reload, then quickly check where he was in first person, find him, and shoot him, rinse repeat. In TTS, you just open up first person, spot where he is, and shoot him until he dies.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Telling people to play Twin Snakes instead of the original is like telling people to watch Escape From LA instead of Escape From New York.

 

[34scell]

Well MGS itself is more analogous to Escape from LA; a sequel that's actually an inferior remake.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

oh boy, anime!!!!

You say that as if Metal Gear Solid wasn't pretty much anime already.

That's the key of the series. Animu weirdo stuff disguised in western aesthetics.

 

[Bigg Boss]

oh boy, anime!!!!

You say that as if Metal Gear Solid wasn't pretty much anime already.

That's the key of the series. Animu weirdo stuff disguised in western aesthetics.

And what people should notice by now is when that anime influence was raised to 11 a large part of the fanbase started to revolt. I think that has to do with Kojima taking over most of the writing duties and relenting to fan service but it is too hard to tell.

 

[Trotsky]

Telling people to play Twin Snakes instead of the original is like telling people to watch Escape From LA instead of Escape From New York.

Nice analogy but I'd argue its more like the difference between enjoying a classic on VHS vs the special edition Blue-Ray.

 

[Jick Magger]

Telling people to play Twin Snakes instead of the original is like telling people to watch Escape From LA instead of Escape From New York.

Nice analogy but I'd argue its more like the difference between enjoying a classic on VHS vs the special edition Blue-Ray.

More like the older releases of the Star Wars original trilogy vs. The Special Editions: whole lotta clutter that doesn't really improve the base experience, plus a lot of revisions that were sanctioned by the original creator, but not necessarily to the benefit of the work as a whole.

 

[Trotsky]

MGS2 gameplay and graphics combined with MGS1 story and characters is the perfect package on paper. It was Kojima who insisted on changes rather than an updated port.

 

[CyberWhale]

It being a perfect match on paper and Kojima insisting on changes doesn't really change the fact that you are wrong and that the remake is inferior to the original.

P.S. why are we having this discussion every few pages/weeks and repeating the same arguments all over again?

 

[Jick Magger]

MGS2 gameplay and graphics combined with MGS1 story and characters is the perfect package on paper.

Any talk of how it could have been good is irrelevant since Silicon Knights wound up botching the execution. Nothing further to discuss there.

It was Kojima who insisted on changes rather than an updated port.

Yes, I'm aware that Kojima sanctioned the changes, hence the comparison to George Lucas. You know what other decisions Kojima made with the series? Attributing basically everything supernatural to nanomachines and parasites, revealing the comic relief cast from MGS3 were the overarching villains of the entire franchise, saying that Big Boss wasn't killed at Zanzibar Land dead then he was dead then he wasn't dead because that last guy was actually Solidus but then he winds up dying from FOXDIE anyway, then the first time you thought you killed him at Outer Heaven where he escaped was actually his body double who did die and Big Boss was never actually there to begin with, so on and so forth. To act as though Kojima's never made any bad decisions with the series is idiotic.

 

[Trotsky]

It being a perfect match on paper and Kojima insisting on changes doesn't really change the fact that you are wrong and that the remake is inferior to the original.

P.S. why are we having this discussion every few pages/weeks and repeating the same arguments all over again?

I haven't seen any convincing arguments beyond a few cutscenes suck, personal preferences, and my opinion is better than yours.

We're also having this discussion again because you can't accept that not everyone exists to circle jerk your group think consensus.

 

[CyberWhale]

 

[Trotsky]

Any talk of how it could have been good is irrelevant since Silicon Knights wound up botching the execution. Nothing further to discuss there.

I don't accept your premise that "Silicon Knights botched the job" nor did most of the gaming community which overwhelmingly approved. That was in an era before corrupt gaming practices, clouds of suspicion over reviews, dubious user generated feedback, and other malaise. A portion of the MGS fan base always hated Twin Snakes but that's it.

Yes, I'm aware that Kojima sanctioned the changes, hence the comparison to George Lucas. You know what other decisions Kojima made with the series? Attributing basically everything supernatural to nanomachines and parasites, revealing the comic relief cast from MGS3 were the overarching villains of the entire franchise, saying that Big Boss wasn't killed at Zanzibar Land dead then he was dead then he wasn't dead because that last guy was actually Solidus but then he winds up dying from FOXDIE anyway, then the first time you thought you killed him at Outer Heaven where he escaped was actually his body double who did die and Big Boss was never actually there to begin with, so on and so forth. To act as though Kojima's never made any bad decisions with the series is idiotic.

Ummmm in case you aren't aware I was the first person here to bring up Tomokazu Fukushima's immense contribution to the Metal Gear Solid franchise.

It was his writing that created a tight, powerful, immersive, and memorable experience. MGS went downhill precisely when he left the series after MGS3.

 

[Jick Magger]

I don't accept your premise that "Silicon Knights botched the job" nor did most of the gaming community which overwhelmingly approved. That was in an era before corrupt gaming practices, clouds of suspicion over reviews, dubious user generated feedback, and other malaise. A portion of the MGS fan base always hated Twin Snakes but that's it

So we're reduced to ad populum arguments now? Weren't you the one who was criticizing other people for conforming to a group think consensus just a moment ago? I've made my argument as to why the game isn't that great, and not a good substitute for the original game, nor a good introduction to the series as a whole, resorting to "Game journos (LOL) agree with me" isn't going to change my mind.

Ummmm in case you aren't aware I was the first person here to bring up Tomokazu Fukushima's immense contribution to the Metal Gear Solid franchise.

It was his writing that created a tight, powerful, immersive, and memorable experience. MGS went downhill precisely when he left the series after MGS3.

So first you say that the cutscene changes were good, then you were trying to infer that the changes as a whole were good because Kojima approved it, now it doesn't matter what Kojima thinks about anything because Fukushima was the lynch-pin holding the series together? What argument are you trying to make here?

 

[Trotsky]

So we're reduced to ad populum arguments now? Weren't you the one who was criticizing other people for conforming to a group think consensus just a moment ago? I've made my argument as to why the game isn't that great, and not a good substitute for the original game, nor a good introduction to the series as a whole, resorting to "Game journos (LOL) agree with me" isn't going to change my mind.

I'm not trying to change your mind only correcting your dubious assumptions. For anyone interested in a modern MGS1 experience MGS Twin Snakes is good enough.

So first you say that the cutscene changes were good, then you were trying to infer that the changes as a whole were good because Kojima approved it, now it doesn't matter what Kojima thinks about anything because Fukushima was the lynch-pin holding the series together? What argument are you trying to make here?

Some changes were good but others were bad. The big changes people complain about mostly came from Kojima. That doesn't mean the idea of a remake was bad or that nothing positive was achieved. I'm not sure why that's so hard to grasp unless your deliberately looking for things to nitpick. Kojima and Fukushima were also a great team.

 

[Superuser]

Telling people to play Twin Snakes instead of the original is like telling people to watch Escape From LA instead of Escape From New York.

Nice analogy but I'd argue its more like the difference between enjoying a classic on VHS vs the special edition Blue-Ray.

DO NOT watch that video, it's spoileriffic.

I disagree strongly with you. The gameplay and voice acting were certainly stronger in MGS1 (they redid the whole voice acting in Twin Snakes, it's much worse). Also, Twin Snakes lacks the strong art direction that MGS1 had, so I'd argue MGS1 still looks better. And I first played MGS1 in 2011/2012 and think it looks and plays really well -- there's no nostalgia for me there.

 

[Menckenstein]

Play MGS1 and don't touch any of the others. It only ends in disappointment.

 

[Trotsky]

I think it ultimately comes down to when and where you started the series. MGS2 Sons of Liberty was my first entry into the franchise and I loved it. I'm happy the original got a make over and MGS Twin Snakes came out next. People mostly hated MGS2 both then and now although more recently they've warmed up to it as being ahead of its time.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

Excepting the OST and the cinematics directions, Twin snakes is better than the original for me. FFS in terms of gameplay MGS is limited and clunky as fuck. Is a pain to play. It aged pretty bad in comparison with MGS2 for example.

 

[Caim]