Might and Magic Might & Magic X - Legacy

[catfood]

Buy the game and play the not physically removed from an inventory version.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Money also gets out of control shortly into the second act so it even becomes a pain to throw the stuff away.

That sounds like you played on Adventurer difficulty. On Warrior I couldn't even afford all the spells I wanted before around level 20. Didn't get to a point where I had too much money till five levels later. The relative scarcity of money is, imo, one of the game's definite pros, and would be even better if you could actually buy useful magic items in shops during endgame.

 

[Tigranes]

Nope, money deluge after midgame and tgen end with 6 digits, on warrior, twice.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Nope, money deluge after midgame and tgen end with 6 digits, on warrior, twice.

Depends on what you mean by "midgame", he said "shortly after starting Act 2", at which point I really don't see how you can have too much money.

 

[Tigranes]

Good point, it's hard for me to remember when the economy breaks. I suppose around the time you get to Level 15-20, pick up a few relics and gain access to all 4 cities. After that you aren't really in any danger of dying or your money running out.

 

[Broseph]

Good point, it's hard for me to remember when the economy breaks. I suppose around the time you get to Level 15-20, pick up a few relics and gain access to all 4 cities. After that you aren't really in any danger of dying or your money running out.

I actually think this is the biggest problem with the endgame and post-game, your coffers are overflowing and you get more items than you know what to do with. A solid idea for a DLC would be to have the party get abducted and have all their gold/items taken away. Would be an easy way to create challenge/fun for a high level party.

 

[Blaine]

MMX has been on my back burner for weeks. I played the beta a few months back, though.

Biggest thing I've noticed in my first few hours is that they've toned item breakage way down (a good thing, but perhaps they went too far, since nothing's broken on me yet from levels 1-6). Also, they could have slashed the quantity of gold by 9/10ths. Even in the earliest levels, it's 150 gold in this chest, 300 gold in that chest, a pair of the cheapest boots in the game costs something like 80 gold, etc. Divide by 10, round up or down and have done with it.

I'm also finding it somewhat difficult to reach a point of being relatively satisfied with my characters' gear, attributes (and attribute allocation), skill, and spell configurations. I'm guessing that'll resolve itself somewhere in the middle of the game when they have "focused" item sets, distinct attribute distributions, and more skills/spells to play with.

Currently running a Blademaster (daggers), Hunter, Crusader, and Runepriest. It's worked out fairly well, although finding trainers when I want them is a pain currently.

 

[groke]

I'm not gonna trawl through 220+ pages of this thread to find the answers to my questions, so I'm just gonna ask. I happened to notice this game being available in retail here in Iceland, and except for the price ($45!) there is no mention of any DRM besides "online activation". Does this game require Steam to work, or does it have that Uplay thing everyone seems to loathe so much?

It requires Steam AND that Uplay thing that's almost universally hated. The game is fun, so it's worth the pain but if you get it make sure that you kill Uplay's Cloud saves synchronization because it loves to mess up your savegames.

The boxed copy definitely doesn't require Steam, but it has to be activated (and then downloaded and re-installed, because the version on-disc is the early-access version) through UPlay.

 

[GlutenBurger]

Also one other thing: I thought I could just ignore the lore stuff but man they try so hard to keep shoving that shit in your face. So much obvious effort has been spent on it.

I agree that a lot of effort seemed to have been put into it, but don't see how it's difficult to ignore. If you don't bother reading the books and conversation items that aren't marked as quests, it's no more overbearing than the fluff text you'd encounter in any RPG. There's one pointless sidequest that you probably won't solve if you haven't been paying attention to the fluff, one chest riddle which would continue to withhold its worthless loot, and those altars that I never bothered with and which probably weren't worth it, but that's about it.

I guess you're forced to read a little story while doing the final boss section, too.

Oh, and maybe the one bit in the Tomb of a Thousand Terrors which I couldn't figure out. There's a description of a series of patterns or something in one room, and the next room has a statue asking "who is he?" I suspect the solution was in one of the books.

(and then downloaded and re-installed, because the version on-disc is the early-access version) through UPlay.

Wow. That is completely moronic.

 

[Darkion]

The boxed copy definitely doesn't require Steam, but it has to be activated (and then downloaded and re-installed, because the version on-disc is the early-access version) through UPlay.

Augh! Hey, It was six in the morning and I was still half asleep.

Wow. That is completely moronic.

I'm old, so I will probably never accept the concept of buying a physical copy of a game and then having to spend hours downloading the digital version anyway. Am I missing something? Is there a reason to buy a boxed version anymore aside of the old school satisfaction of having a box of the game?

 

[Minttunator]

Oh, and maybe the one bit in the Tomb of a Thousand Terrors which I couldn't figure out. There's a description of a series of patterns or something in one room, and the next room has a statue asking "who is he?" I suspect the solution was in one of the books.

I'll admit to Googling that one. You actually find out the identity of this person lower in the dungeon, but you can also figure out the riddle if you realize that each fragment describes a letter:

As life withers and closes,
As the first sign of rage grows.
Peace ends
while battles start again.
A circle is drawn,
Where shadow is born.

 

[Answermancer]

Am I missing something? Is there a reason to buy a boxed version anymore aside of the old school satisfaction of having a box of the game?

To help clutter up your home and add one more thing for people to throw in a landfill when you're dead.

 

[Blaine]

Well, I'm finishing up the fourth dungeon—Castle Portmeyron, which follows the Spider's Lair, Lighthouse, and Den of Thieves.

These fucking dungeon layouts, puzzles, and secrets had better get more a lot more complicated and challenging real soon. I feel as though I'm playing "Babby's First Game With Lord of the Rings Characters and They Walk Around and Stab Stuff and Cast Magic Fireballs at Things" rather than an actual cRPG.

 

[Great Deceiver]

If you wanted a challenge maybe you shouldn't have rolled a min/maxed Codex approved (tm) cookie cutter party, after the game has been digested by everyone else for you. Your post comes across as trying really hard to be edgy.

 

[Excidium]

I don't think changing party composition will magically make the dungeons better

 

[Gozma]

Well, I'm finishing up the fourth dungeon—Castle Portmeyron, which follows the Spider's Lair, Lighthouse, and Den of Thieves.

These fucking dungeon layouts, puzzles, and secrets had better get more a lot more complicated and challenging real soon. I feel as though I'm playing "Babby's First Game With Lord of the Rings Characters and They Walk Around and Stab Stuff and Cast Magic Fireballs at Things" rather than an actual cRPG.

Aside from one combatless dedicated puzzle/riddle dungeon (and the caves, which are just single rooms) they're all basically following MMORPG instance design where the purpose of an area is to be corridors between mob setpieces.

 

[Blaine]

If you wanted a challenge maybe you shouldn't have rolled a min/maxed Codex approved (tm) cookie cutter party, after the game has been digested by everyone else for you. Your post comes across as trying really hard to be edgy.

What in the fuck? I haven't even read 99% of this thread, jackass. The only metagame information I really had going in was that ranged sucks ass (and indeed, I find I can nearly always position for close combat; low damage [or so I hear], DRAMATIC AMBUSHES and the fact that ranged mobs will spank your party a lot longer than if your entire blob is in their faces clinches it), that Mercenary's premier ability was bugged, and that Prime magic saved you a lot of money on Identify. I don't believe I got any of that from the Codex. Mainly, I'd been reading up on bugs, because I'd heard there were a lot of them. I'd hardly call that "digested by everyone else for me." It's also worth noting that I played the early version well before release.

Your post comes off as severely butthurt, particularly since combat and party composition have absolutely not even a single thing to do with any of the criticisms I've opined. As far as I can tell, you're just latching on to whatever insulting tidbit you think you see in my post.

The dungeons in MMX so far have been easy as fuck to navigate, and the "puzzles" are Skyrim-tier, meaning a quadriplegic chimp could solve them by smashing its face around the room. They're essentially just series of obviously-defined rooms that are sometimes interconnected in a non-confusing fashion, and that sort of thing has been a sore point with me since pretty much forever. I'm in the Elemental Forge right now, and it's the same deal.

Aside from one combatless dedicated puzzle/riddle dungeon (and the caves, which are just single rooms) they're all basically following MMORPG instance design where the purpose of an area is to be corridors between mob setpieces.

Welp.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I haven't seen interesting dungeon design in Might and Magic since 6, unfortunately MMX isn't an exception - and in fact, I complained about the ambush encounter design right here on this thread back when i played it maybe a month or two ago, but for some reason your post came across as hyperbolic to me. I mean you do it again later - "quadriplegic chimp smashing its face around the room" - I don't know what you were expecting, some kind of revelation?

I misread your original complaint though, and for that I apologize - excidium is right, no party composition will make the dungeon layouts interesting.

The overworld is fun enough - although far too gated, and the game is a nice diversion. I wouldn't expect Wizardry level dungeons out of it, though.

 

[Broseph]

As I've said before, the M&M's never really had fantastic level design, barring a few notable exceptions. MMX is not really any better or worse in that department than the previous three.

 

[Darth Roxor]

As I've said before, the M&M's never really had fantastic level design, barring a few notable exceptions

Do you know on how many levels this sentence is wrong?

On very, very, very many levels. Might and Magic had spectacular level design up to 6, and even when it started declining with 7 and 8, it was still good nonetheless.

Level design is what made the games WORTHY OF PLAYING IN THE FIRST PLACE, WHAT THE SHIT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!

 

[Blaine]

I mean you do it again later - "quadriplegic chimp smashing its face around the room" - I don't know what you were expecting, some kind of revelation?

The puzzles so far have clearly been designed for people who aren't used to working puzzles. Variable-output lever and pressure plate puzzles (i.e. pull lever A to open/close door 1 and 2, pull lever B to open/close door 1 and 3, etc.) with all the relevant pieces of the puzzle right there in the same room are incredibly easy. I accidentally solved the "rotating columns" treasure cave while simply stepping on plates to work out the patterns prior to solving it. I was impressed to find a treasure chest that could only be opened by solving a riddle; unfortunately, it was easy.

I like puzzles challenging enough that just figuring out how to go about solving them is a puzzle in itself, like in the old Myst games when you had to pick up a book and then a couple of widgets before you had enough context to even know what you were supposed to be doing. Once you know the end goal, arriving at the solution should be challenging and frustrating. Multi-location levels are a plus. If a puzzle makes me feel like a retard yet is still a properly designed puzzle, it's perfect.

The overworld is fun enough - although far too gated, and the game is a nice diversion. I wouldn't expect Wizardry level dungeons out of it, though.

I'm noticing that too. It's extremely gated. They seem to have thrown a few "hard enemy caves" into the first bit of the Agyn Peninsula for the express purpose of reinforcing the idea that it's open-world, but really it's not. You can however choose where to go and what order to do things in some fashion, so that's something.

 

[Broseph]

As I've said before, the M&M's never really had fantastic level design, barring a few notable exceptions

Do you know on how many levels this sentence is wrong?

On very, very, very many levels. Might and Magic had spectacular level design up to 6, and even when it started declining with 7 and 8, it was still good nonetheless.

Level design is what made the games WORTHY OF PLAYING IN THE FIRST PLACE, WHAT THE SHIT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!

No, what made the games worth playing was the addictive if simplistic gameplay and the sense of adventure. Excellent level design was just a bonus. 7 and 8 level design was not good, if anything it was worse than MMX with most dungeons being small and cramped corridors filled with loot, monsters and maybe a simplistic puzzle if you were lucky.

 

[Blaine]

No, what made the games worth playing was the addictive if simplistic gameplay and the sense of adventure.

Different strokes for different folks.

Excellent level design was just a bonus. 7 and 8 level design was not good, if anything it was worse than MMX with most dungeons being small and cramped corridors filled with loot, monsters and maybe a simplistic puzzle if you were lucky.

Well, I never played M&M past World of Xeen, so that may explain why I'm a bit surprised and disappointed by this.

 

[Broseph]

The later games are more hack-and-slash and less puzzle-oriented compared to 3-5, if anything MMX is a step back in the right direction. It's not better than 3-5 or 6 but it's arguably a better designed game than everything that came after.

 

[Grunker]

I'm a bit surprised and disappointed by this.

Well... I'm a bit disappointed too, in the sense that I'm sad it wasn't more than it is. However, what it is pretty much what the advertised it to be, and I'm having plenty of fun with it. Certainly more than I had with #8 (I don't count #9 as a contender). It is also a formula that doesn't need that much work before it becomes much better than it is.

I dunno, I feel like the yay- and naysayers in this thread aren't actually that far from each other in terms of how they rate the game. Seems more like a semantics battle about whether that rating qualifies the game as "good" or not. Personally, I find the game successful and an honest attempt.

I guess it's also about warped perceptions. I mean, if this had come out in 1998, perhaps I wouldn't be as pleased with it as I am, who knows.