Game News Might & Magic X Update: Travelling, Questing, Itemization and more

[Nael]

What? Gambling with unindentified items when you're all battered up poses no danger at all?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but how is wearing unidentified items "gambling?" Put the items on and see what stats go up... Profit or don't.

 

[Excidium]

What? Gambling with unindentified items when you're all battered up poses no danger at all?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but how is wearing unidentified items "gambling?" Put the items on and see what stats go up... Profit or don't.

Is this a serious question? Figuring what an item does by using it has some things involved, not only risking it being cursed but also wasting a charge of a powerful spell on some random rat to see what it does and regretting it instantly (let's add up being able to target anything and ending up buffing a monster or fireballing your party), or you might end up wasting precious turns attacking a monster with a weapon enchanted with something he's resistant to.

In the MMX design of not being able to use unidentified items all those things can't be implemented, and you're left merely with not being able to use them until you identify.

 

[Nael]

What? Gambling with unindentified items when you're all battered up poses no danger at all?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but how is wearing unidentified items "gambling?" Put the items on and see what stats go up... Profit or don't.

Is this a serious question? Figuring what an item does by using it has some things involved, not only risking it being cursed but also wasting a charge of a powerful spell on some random rat to see what it does and regretting it instantly (let's add up being able to target anything and ending up buffing a monster or fireballing your party), or you might end up wasting precious turns attacking a monster with a weapon enchanted with something he's resistant to.

Cursed items? I think you are mistaking this for a D&D or Wizardry game...

 

[Excidium]

Cursed items? I think you are mistaking this for a D&D or Wizardry game...

I'm kinda mistaking this for a sequel apparently.

 

[Infinitron]

Except you still have the option to use any non-magic equipment you found on your way. Besides you're completely ignoring the fact that the system makes it riskier, you never know when a item you're going to use it's going to be cursed. I don't want to go to a dungeon, clear everything and come home with my bag of shiny magic items. I want to go to a dungeon, fall on a trap two levels below, get surrounded and find a fucking sword like none I've seen before, it looks great and menaces with spikes of awesomeness, then start considering the options, should I risk using this to help me get out of the dungeon or maybe it's cursed and using it is going to get me killed?

tl;dr "Why aren't all RPGs roguelikes?"

I think I've made my position clear. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages. Hopefully the folks at Limbic will read this and make an informed decision on which one they want to implement.

 

[Nael]

Cursed items? I think you are mistaking this for a D&D or Wizardry game...

I'm kinda mistaking this for a sequel apparently.

I didn't play MM6-9 as much as I did MM1-5. Were there cursed items in 6-9? (serious question. i don't recall there being any)

 

[Berekän]

Except you still have the option to use any non-magic equipment you found on your way. Besides you're completely ignoring the fact that the system makes it riskier, you never know when a item you're going to use it's going to be cursed. I don't want to go to a dungeon, clear everything and come home with my bag of shiny magic items. I want to go to a dungeon, fall on a trap two levels below, get surrounded and find a fucking sword like none I've seen before, it looks great and menaces with spikes of awesomeness, then start considering the options, should I risk using this to help me get out of the dungeon or maybe it's cursed and using it is going to get me killed?

tl;dr "Why aren't all RPGs roguelikes?"

I think I've made my position clear. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages. Hopefully the folks at Limbic will read this and make an informed decision on which one they want to implement.

Yeah, clear enough, let's take options away from the players so they don't deviate from their archaeological runs.

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah, clear enough, let's take options away from the players so they don't deviate from their archaeological runs.

Still waiting for somebody to tell me why leveling up in town is okay but identifying items isn't.

I got all those experience points in the dungeon. Why can't I use them?? Streamlining!

 

[tuluse]

Is this a serious question? Figuring what an item does by using it has some things involved, not only risking it being cursed but also wasting a charge of a powerful spell on some random rat to see what it does and regretting it instantly (let's add up being able to target anything and ending up buffing a monster or fireballing your party), or you might end up wasting precious turns attacking a monster with a weapon enchanted with something he's resistant to.

In the MMX design of not being able to use unidentified items all those things can't be implemented, and you're left merely with not being able to use them until you identify.

This only works if you can't reliably identify things. If you can just head back to town and get everything id'd for you, why would you risk using them?

 

[Excidium]

Because you're at the bottom of the goddamn dungeon and that's better than going aaaaaall the way back? Because it saves you money? Because you at least have the option of choosing to do it?

Still waiting for somebody to tell me why leveling up in town is okay but identifying items isn't.

I got all those experience points in the dungeon. Why can't I use them?? Streamlining!

Because that is totally the same situation.

Cursed items? I think you are mistaking this for a D&D or Wizardry game...

I'm kinda mistaking this for a sequel apparently.

I didn't play MM6-9 as much as I did MM1-5. Were there cursed items in 6-9? (serious question. i don't recall there being any)

I have no idea, I decided to avoid 6-9 like the plague not much longer after I tried 4-headed duke nukem. But I-II had cursed items I think, some Might and Magic expect might know

 

[Berekän]

Yeah, clear enough, let's take options away from the players so they don't deviate from their archaeological runs.

Still waiting for somebody to tell me why leveling up in town is okay but identifying items isn't.

I got all those experience points in the dungeon. Why can't I use them?? Streamlining!

Straw man much? Who said anything here against identifying items in town?

 

[Infinitron]

Whoosh.

In the Might & Magic games, you traditionally could not level up without a trainer. Trainers were located in towns. That meant you had to return to town periodically to "check in" your experience points. Remind you of anything?

 

[Excidium]

Whoosh.

In the Might & Magic games, you traditionally could not level up without a trainer. Trainers were located in towns. That meant you had to return to town periodically to "check in" your experience points. Remind you of anything?

Reminds me that you're comparing two wildly different things. First, nobody is asking for identification to be removed. Second, unlike identification, being able to "level anywhere" has no clear drawback or reason to ever go to a town spend money on a trainer so one method invalidates the other.

 

[Berekän]

Whoosh.

In the Might & Magic games, you traditionally could not level up without a trainer. Trainers were located in towns. That meant you had to return to town periodically to "check in" your experience points. Remind you of anything?

Yeah, and I don't see what the fuck does that have to do with the magic items discussion. "Booohooo but you have to go to town to do both things", so? Your point to defend a system that can certainly be improved is to bring another system that does things similar?

 

[Alchemist]

I'm with @Excidium, @Berekän and others on this. Not being able to use unidentified items has never made sense in any game - I've always hated that mechanic. It's just not logical. Picture it: I'm a warrior hacking and slashing through monsters, suddenly the sword in my hand breaks. Oh, good thing I have another sword in my pack I just found. But wait, some mysterious force keeps pushing it out of my hand because I haven't let a sage look at it yet! It's just a silly, artificial restriction.

Training in town makes a bit more sense because it relates to talking with your mentor about your experiences in the field, and putting further practice in to perfect the new moves (or spells, etc.) you figured out.

 

[Gurkog]

Meh, not being able to use experience as you get it is shit design, but so is not being able to use unidentified items.

 

[Excidium]

Meh, not being able to use experience as you get it is shit design

No

 

[tuluse]

I'm with @Excidium, @Berekän and others on this. Not being able to use unidentified items has never made sense in any game - I've always hated that mechanic. It's just not logical. Picture it: I'm a warrior hacking and slashing through monsters, suddenly the sword in my hand breaks. Oh, good thing I have another sword in my pack I just found. But wait, some mysterious force keeps pushing it out of my hand because I haven't let a sage look at it yet! It's just a silly, artificial restriction.

Training in town makes a bit more sense because it relates to talking with your mentor about your experiences in the field, and putting further practice in to perfect the new moves (or spells, etc.) you figured out.

You really can't imagine a scenario where a *magic* sword is unusable until you figure it out?

 

[Excidium]

If there's a good reason for it.

 

[Gurkog]

Meh, not being able to use experience as you get it is shit design

No

Just because decent old games did it that way does not make the shit mechanic good. Visiting trainers should be supplemental to first hand experience or substitute it.

 

[Excidium]

Meh, not being able to use experience as you get it is shit design

No

Just because decent old games did it that way does not make the shit mechanic good. Visiting trainers should be supplemental to first hand experience or substitute it.

Decent old game and almost every RPG system ever. Suddenly getting more powerful out of nowhere is p. dumb.

 

[Gurkog]

Meh, not being able to use experience as you get it is shit design

No

Just because decent old games did it that way does not make the shit mechanic good. Visiting trainers should be supplemental to first hand experience or substitute it.

Decent old game and almost every RPG system ever. Suddenly getting more powerful out of nowhere is p. dumb.

So, not being able to learn anything unless you give a report on your weekend trip to the school teacher is the method of realizing your party's potential? Sorry, but I prefer parties that have graduated from elementary school.

 

[Excidium]

Meh, not being able to use experience as you get it is shit design

No

Just because decent old games did it that way does not make the shit mechanic good. Visiting trainers should be supplemental to first hand experience or substitute it.

Decent old game and almost every RPG system ever. Suddenly getting more powerful out of nowhere is p. dumb.

So, not being able to learn anything unless you give a report on your weekend trip to the school teacher is the method of realizing your party's potential? Sorry, but I prefer parties that have graduated from elementary school.

No, but you shouldn't get much better at sword fighting by an amount significant enough to be represented statistically all by yourself unless you really practice a lot, a teacher should certainly help you learn faster and better stuff. Not to mention learning spells and other more academic things. CRPGs don't have "downtime" that you can go and assume your character is honing whatever he did during his latest adventures to level up so trainer requirements are just the simplest best step. That it helps the in-game economy by relieving you of your money is just a bonus.

 

[Gurkog]

No, but you shouldn't get much better at sword fighting by an amount significant enough to be represented statistically all by yourself unless you really practice a lot,

All of that combat while dungeon crawling is not practice?

a teacher should certainly help you learn faster and better stuff. Not to mention learning spells and other more academic things.

That is why I said it should be supplemental, give a boost to rate of xp gain, or substitute it, as in providing new spells (already learned spells should get better through use).

CRPGs don't have "downtime" that you can go and assume your character is honing whatever he did during his latest adventures to level up so trainer requirements are just the simplest best step.

Suddenly adventurers never spend time 'resting' or 'traveling', and so they have no time to contemplate on their recent experiences.

That it helps the in-game economy by relieving you of your money is just a bonus.

If the economy is fucked up without training money sinks it is irredeemable shit to begin with.

 

[Alchemist]

I'm with @Excidium, @Berekän and others on this. Not being able to use unidentified items has never made sense in any game - I've always hated that mechanic. It's just not logical. Picture it: I'm a warrior hacking and slashing through monsters, suddenly the sword in my hand breaks. Oh, good thing I have another sword in my pack I just found. But wait, some mysterious force keeps pushing it out of my hand because I haven't let a sage look at it yet! It's just a silly, artificial restriction.

Training in town makes a bit more sense because it relates to talking with your mentor about your experiences in the field, and putting further practice in to perfect the new moves (or spells, etc.) you figured out.

You really can't imagine a scenario where a *magic* sword is unusable until you figure it out?

Actually I should have clarified that yes in certain cases the magic of an item should not activate until it's been identified. But a guy should still be able to pick up the magic sword and swing it in a basic manner. Perhaps the full effects don't activate until identified (requiring a activation word, gesture or something). And the same follows for any powerful artifact or relic. The problem is that games aren't making those detailed distinctions between cases.