Morrowind was massive decline and should be considered as such

[Butter]

You can't criticize Ultima 8 for not allowing you to bake bread unless you also criticize VTMB for also not allowing you to bake bread.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

VTMB should allow you to bake bread, yes.

 

[Sykar]

Be creative, a human's bread is a vampire's

 

[Robotigan]

Oblivion is my least favorite of the three Elder Scrolls games I've played. But it's super evident to me how unfair of a curve Oblivion is graded on relative to some of Codex's favorite RPGs. Like Mr. Btongue said in his Skyrim review, if Oblivion were the first installment of its own series everyone would love it. The only reason people shit on it is purely because it's sandwiched between two genre heavyweights. But taken on its own, Oblivion is still a much better product than so many other RPGs out there.

Codexers like to politicize RPGs as tactic to signal what they want to see from future games. VTMB is a cool idea for a roleplaying game unfortunately maligned by poor release timing, an unsympathetic publisher, and poor project management. Always difficult for gamers to come to terms with the latter, apparently publishers are expected to throw money at a rapidly ballooning project indefinitely like a some sort of Kickstarter. But anyway, there's admittedly something there. The game deserved more recognition and the franchise deserved a second attempt. But because the dev studio went defunct, Codex coddles the hell out of it and acts like it's one of the single greatest gaming experiences ever instead of just an underrated beautiful mess.

Oblivion made the mistake of being successful. It made the grave mistake of being more successful than its predecessor despite doing some things worse. And Codex had to let the world know just how wrong it was for ever thinking Oblivion was better than its precious Morrowind. Casuals had ruined the series by demanding a generic medieval setting because they couldn't appreciate the beauty and nuance of Morrowind! Codex has to wage this war like a holy crusade. And it didn't even fucking happen. Halo and Half-Life were contemporaries and mega popular proving there was plenty of appetite for weird settings. Oblivion's sales primarily comes down to one trivial thing: the gaming market as a whole was rapidly growing. Basically every project was higher budget and outselling its predecessors during that period. Oblivion was the first TES I played. Skyrim was the first TES I owned. Why? Because my parents wouldn't buy me a video game console so I had to wait until I had a summer job. This isn't rocket science.

Oblivion didn't herald the end of creative world building; the very next game course corrected. Industry wide popular original titles like Portal, Bioshock, and Assassin's Creed came out not long after. You guys mourn for a death that didn't happen.

 

[perfectslumbers]

But it's super evident to me how unfair of a curve Oblivion is graded on relative to some of Codex's favorite RPGs.

Tbh I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that people just genuinely don't like Oblivion.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

But it's super evident to me how unfair of a curve Oblivion is graded on relative to some of Codex's favorite RPGs.

Tbh I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that people just genuinely don't like Oblivion.

Same reason it's so hard to believe that a large mushroom is what passes for good worldbuilding.

 

[Ryan muller]

Oblivion is my least favorite of the three Elder Scrolls games I've played. But it's super evident to me how unfair of a curve Oblivion is graded on relative to some of Codex's favorite RPGs. Like Mr. Btongue said in his Skyrim review, if Oblivion were the first installment of its own series everyone would love it. The only reason people shit on it is purely because it's sandwiched between two genre heavyweights. But taken on its own, Oblivion is still a much better product than so many other RPGs out there.


Codexers like to politicize RPGs as tactic to signal what they want to see from future games. VTMB is a cool idea for a roleplaying game unfortunately maligned by poor release timing, an unsympathetic publisher, and poor project management. Always difficult for gamers to come to terms with the latter, apparently publishers are expected to throw money at a rapidly ballooning project indefinitely like a some sort of Kickstarter. But anyway, there's admittedly something there. The game deserved more recognition and the franchise deserved a second attempt. But because the dev studio went defunct, Codex coddles the hell out of it and acts like it's one of the single greatest gaming experiences ever instead of just an underrated beautiful mess.

Oblivion made the mistake of being successful. It made the grave mistake of being more successful than its predecessor despite doing some things worse. And Codex had to let the world know just how wrong it was for ever thinking Oblivion was better than its precious Morrowind. Casuals had ruined the series by demanding a generic medieval setting because they couldn't appreciate the beauty and nuance of Morrowind! Codex has to wage this war like a holy crusade. And it didn't even fucking happen. Halo and Half-Life were contemporaries and mega popular proving there was plenty of appetite for weird settings. Oblivion's sales primarily comes down to one trivial thing: the gaming market as a whole was rapidly growing. Basically every project was higher budget and outselling its predecessors during that period. Oblivion was the first TES I played. Skyrim was the first TES I owned. Why? Because my parents wouldn't buy me a video game console so I had to wait until I had a summer job. This isn't rocket science.

Oblivion didn't herald the end of creative world building; the very next game course corrected. Industry wide popular original titles like Portal, Bioshock, and Assassin's Creed came out not long after. You guys mourn for a death that didn't happen.

You dont even need to use the codex to dislike oblivion.

Theres surely a lot of games thats just "cool to hate" when you wish to sound intellectual, but oblivion get literally used as a joke even in some TES fangroups

The best way to spend time with the game is literally watching videos of random stupid shit happening, playing it is just plain boring.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

morrovirgins are intensely jealous of oblivichads for their ability to like a traditional fantasy game

 

[rusty_shackleford]

 

[luj1]

You're an idiot. It's not about trad fantasy vs. unorthodox fantasy, Oblivion is just a dumbed down game where everything is simplified compared to Morrowind. There are less skills, less classes, less guilds, less of everything.

Like Jarl wrote, if you make a belieavable world, e.g. you can see what people eat, where food comes from, which factions controls what, and why, who is scheming with whom, etc., then your world can tell its story in silence. If Oblivion did that and wasn't dumbed down for consoletards, none would have an issue with trad fantasy.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Oblivion is just a dumbed down game where everything is simplified compared to Morrowind.

Morrowind is just a dumbed down game where everything is simplified compared to Daggerfall.

Daggerchads & Oblivichads are bros 4 lyfe btw

 

[luj1]

Daggerfall vs. Morrowind is quantity vs. quality, the two approaches cannot be further apart. Oblivion is neither quantity nor quality. It's industrial algorithmic garbage for small minded peasants like yourself.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Daggerfall vs. Morrowind is quantity vs. quality, the two approaches cannot be further appart. Oblivion is neither quantity nor quality.

Going to make a mod that replaces the trees in oblivion with giant mushrooms so you guys think it's the best game ever made

 

[KateMicucci]

You dont even need to use the codex to dislike oblivion.

Theres surely a lot of games thats just "cool to hate" when you wish to sound intellectual, but oblivion get literally used as a joke even in some TES fangroups

There have been daily oblivion hate threads on /v/ since it came out in 2006. Oblivion is the "coolest" game to hate there is. Of course, actual cool people wouldn't be bitching about a 15 year old video game. It's as tired as complaining about George Bush.

You're an idiot. It's not about trad fantasy vs. unorthodox fantasy, Oblivion is just a dumbed down game where everything is simplified compared to Morrowind.

"Everything" except for all of the things Oblivion added or expanded on. NPC routines, being able to have NPCs help you fight, horses. You guys bitch endlessly about a few redundant skills and jank spells being removed.

Like Jarl wrote, if you make a belieavable world, e.g. you can see what people eat, where food comes from, which factions controls what, and why, who is scheming with whom, etc., then your world can tell its story in silence. If Oblivion did that and wasn't dumbed down for consoletards, none would have an issue with trad fantasy.

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Farms_(Oblivion)

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the irony is that the NPCs in oblivion actually have needs and find food on their own because they need to eat rather than standing in place never eating
but yeah, tell me about how realistic morrowind's food is when oblivion NPCs actually farm(or steal or...) their own food then eat it

you guys made up an entire game in your mind that never even existed

 

[rusty_shackleford]

going to make a game that just has a piece of food on the floor, that's the entire game, a single piece of food. You can't interact with it.
geniuses at the codex will extrapolate an entire game around it

 

[Ryan muller]

the irony is that the NPCs in oblivion actually have needs and find food on their own because they need to eat rather than standing in place never eating
but yeah, tell me about how realistic morrowind's food is when oblivion NPCs actually farm(or steal or...) their own food then eat it

you guys made up an entire game in your mind that never even existed

Yes

They also do that:
https://youtu.be/N6hVmn9FM7o

 

[rusty_shackleford]

"GOSH MORROWIND IS SO DEEP IT MAKES YOU THINK ABOUT WHERE THE FOOD COMES FROM"
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:City-Swimmer

She owns a lower-class second floor condo in the northeastern part of town and she sleeps there every night between 10pm and 6am. After waking up, she unlocks the door and spends the next two hours relaxing inside. At 8am, she sits down and eats her breakfast until she finally ventures outside at 10am. For the next ten hours, she wanders around the northern part of Bravil, regardless of weather. At 12pm and 6pm she gets hungry and will, due to her low responsibility, never shy away from stealing food from the townsfolk passing by, a behavior that often results in trouble with the patrolling guards and her untimely demise.

morroclowns

They also do that:
https://youtu.be/N6hVmn9FM7o

Remember, never attempt to do anything impressive EVER because you will be mocked for it. Just do less, people will applaud you for doing the bare minimum.
People like you are the reason Skyrim went backwards instead of forwards with AI.
Morroclowns are a plague upon gaming. They think NPCs standing in the same place and acting like wikipedia is the best thing EVER.

 

[KateMicucci]

the irony is that the NPCs in oblivion actually have needs and find food on their own because they need to eat rather than standing in place never eating
but yeah, tell me about how realistic morrowind's food is when oblivion NPCs actually farm(or steal or...) their own food then eat it

you guys made up an entire game in your mind that never even existed

Yes

They also do that:
https://youtu.be/N6hVmn9FM7o

Yeah its pretty cool that guards in Oblivion will investigate dead bodies instead of just standing still forever or waddling past it with poop in their pants.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

morroclowns: "yooo this gameplay is GREAT!"

 

[Bruma Hobo]

 

[Ryan muller]

Yeah its pretty cool that guards in Oblivion will investigate dead bodies instead of just standing still forever or waddling past it with poop in their pants.

They are so faithful to their duties that they prefer to loose their lifes rather than not doing it, impressive how much thought was put in those systems, GOAT

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Yeah its pretty cool that guards in Oblivion will investigate dead bodies instead of just standing still forever or waddling past it with poop in their pants.

They are so faithful to their duties that they prefer to loose their lifes rather than not doing it, impressive how much thought was put in those systems, GOAT

And yet it's still superior to not having the system at all.
Whiners are the reason they went in the opposite direction, you guys should LOVE skyrim. Morroclowns + skybabies forever.

 

[Ryan muller]

Remember, never attempt to do anything impressive EVER because you will be mocked for it.

Cause Obviously innovation is equal quality, thats why Legends of valour is literally the better game rather than any TES title

 

[dacencora]

morroclowns: "yooo this gameplay is GREAT!"

Ok that’s pretty funny. I have a very high opinion of Morrowind but a lot of what you’ve said in this thread isn’t wrong. I didn’t hate Oblivion at all, but I also didn’t find it interesting enough to keep playing it. I played a butt ton of Skyrim and Morrowind. The same thing happened for me with Fallout 3 vs New Vegas. I played 3 first (and before any other Fallout game too), but I just couldn’t really get into it, but I played a ton of New Vegas. I kind of want to try Oblivion and Fallout 3 again.