"My country is the strongest" - Prove it in a Wargame : RD Competition

[ValeVelKal]

So prompted by Dayyālu , I propose a Wargame : RD competition. With interesting rules

Rules :

- For the LOL, you can only play the deck of your RL country. No coalition.


Q1 :"My country has no deck". Ask the judge (ie. me) and either I would tell you what to use instead

eg : Italy => US 1980 deck, or BLUFOR 1980 with only German, French and US units)
eg : Croatia => Yugoslavian deck
eg : Romania => USSR 1985 deck, or REDFOR 1985 deck with only Czech, USSR and Yugoslavian units
eg : Senegal => French 1980 deck, no elite infantry. Good luck.

Q2 : "I am Canadian // Danish, I have a terrible deck".
Too bad, don't you like challenges ?

Q3 : "I am German".
You get to choose between two decks !!!


- 1 vs 1 Conquest, 40mn, map will be chosen as agreed by the parties, if not chosen by the judge (=me).
If BOTH players agree, they can make it a 1 vs 1 Destruction. If they don't agree it is Conquest.

- Defeat means moving to the loser bracket. Defeat in the loser bracket means elimination

- Same country does not face same country (except in finale), the judge (aka me) will make sure it does not happen, even if it means destroying and remaking the "bracket trees" mid-competition.

- Will the judge (that would be me) be objective ? Of course not. Else it would not be fair. But you can defeat him in battle so I guess OK

- We will not start without at least 8 players registered.

Register by putting the country you are from below.

Reminder, for those on the fence of buying wargames, here are the countries in the game :

US, Canada, France, (West) Germany, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Israel, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, China, Soviet Union, Finland, Poland, Czecoslovakia, East Germany, Yugoslavia

 

[ValeVelKal]

ValeVelKal, France.

 

[Dayyālu]

I don't think we'll get a shitton of players, and I'm rusty as fuck. Red Dwagon has not that big of a playerbase.

Also, not playing JUCHE will hurt my heart, but I'll abide by the rules and play as the BLUFOR deck. What can go wrong?

 

[ValeVelKal]

I don't think we'll get a shitton of players, and I'm rusty as fuck. Red Dwagon has not that big of a playerbase.

Also, not playing JUCHE will hurt my heart, but I'll abide by the rules and play as the BLUFOR deck. What can go wrong?

Well, playing without the Germans with my French will be strange for me as well. And my go-to deck are Eastern Bloc and USSR, ever since they removed SovKor.

 

[Bester]

Can someone explain what is being played here? Please talk like to a retarded relative.

Is this a video game? A pen&paper game?

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Can someone explain what is being played here? Please talk like to a retarded relative.

Is this a video game? A pen&paper game?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/251060/Wargame_Red_Dragon/

 

[Chaosdwarft]

ValeVelKal What happens if you have 2 nationalities, can you get a coalition deck then?

 

[ValeVelKal]

ValeVelKal What happens if you have 2 nationalities, can you get a coalition deck then?

“... and I happen to be Czech and Yugoslavian”

Nah, we are looking for The Strongest Nation through this totally scientific method. You can choose among two decks though.

 

[Chaosdwarft]

Then I will play FRANCE as well. I will dust off my French Airborne and Foreign Legion deck. Do we get to use experimental units?

Well, playing without the Germans with my French will be strange for me as well. And my go-to decks are Eastern Bloc and USSR, ever since they removed SovKor.

You don't need any German tanks, you got very decent units to take care of enemy armor.

I have only played against AI and with a buddy or two, never 1v1. This will be an interesting experience for me.

 

[Andnjord]

You couldn't propose this a few weeks back when this game was on sale, could you?

I'll pass, I still need to continue with the ADOM LP and I want to go back to Bannerlord at some point

But I'll watch from the sidelines the esteemed Codexers who shall partake in this

 

[Sranchammer]

Can't we settle this through Dota?

 

[Dayyālu]

You couldn't propose this a few weeks back when this game was on sale, could you?

I'll pass, I still need to continue with the ADOM LP and I want to go back to Bannerlord at some point

But I'll watch from the sidelines the esteemed Codexers who shall partake in this

https://www.kinguin.net/category/5885/wargame-red-dragon-pre-order-steam-key

(It's MP focused, not the greatest buy for SP)

 

[Endemic]

How do the unit stats actually work? They seem very arbitrary upon first glance.

 

[ValeVelKal]

How do the unit stats actually work? They seem very arbitrary upon first glance.

Yeah it is complicated. I feel the relative stats between units are fairly well respected (eg early German tanks have low armor vs their Soviet equivalent, the Blowpipe is the worst manpad in the game, etc) but then there has been a lot of adjustement (=revert to the mean) in the absolute values to make the game playable : infantry runs at 20 km/h with equipment, on the other hand SAM range has been reduced all over the board.

In addition, all the ranges have been standardized (for a gun : 1750 - 2100 - 2250 - 2650...) so you don't have a bazillion ranges to remember, same with the speed.

Finally, some of the tech (eg ERA armor, tandem charge, ...), has been translated into increased armor or armor piercing, the bonus is usually significant enough that ERA armor defeats non-tandem charge missile from the front... but not from the back, when it should.

It is soup, but it has been done so well that it is feels realistic while being fun, if you don't take into account some oddities (non-radar CROTALE ? whatever) and the fact that Yugoslavian units are way better than they should because DLC . You don’t have those oddities like in Blitkrieg where the best unit to defeat an heavy tank is infantry charge because infantry can cross the range covered by the tank gun in less than 10 seconds. In Wargame, infante gets destroyed by tank in the open way before it crosses 10 percent of the range though a well positioned ATGM will punish the tank. In a forest though a tank is a prey for infantry.

 

[ValeVelKal]

Then I will play FRANCE as well. I will dust off my French Airborne and Foreign Legion deck. Do we get to use experimental units?

Well, playing without the Germans with my French will be strange for me as well. And my go-to decks are Eastern Bloc and USSR, ever since they removed SovKor.

You don't need any German tanks, you got very decent units to take care of enemy armor.

I have only played against AI and with a buddy or two, never 1v1. This will be an interesting experience for me.

The French lack a workhorse tank to support their infantry, and in general infantry support units. They compensate with excellent infantry and solid IFV, but everything there is expensive.

In terms of tanks again, the only workhorse tank is the Brennus, but it lacks armor for its tier/price and will be defeated by any Soviet tank in the price range. Then you have nothing between the Brennus and the Leclerc (which is awesome but of course incredibly more expensive).

 

[Endemic]

I tried the hypothetical Hong Kong campaign, and it seemed like my units needed constant babysitting to do anything. Also for some reason the British forces don't have access to F-4 Phantoms, so their counter air ability is laughable (the Harrier is a joke against any supersonic aircraft).

 

[ValeVelKal]

I tried the hypothetical Hong Kong campaign, and it seemed like my units needed constant babysitting to do anything. Also for some reason the British forces don't have access to F-4 Phantoms, so their counter air ability is laughable (the Harrier is a joke against any supersonic aircraft).

Your unit won't move on their own, except in panic, but they will engage anything in range on their own. If they need babysit they were not properly positionned. But yeah, when there are a lot of units around being able to micro properly helps, though a good micro // bad strategic player will lose against the opposite.

UK does not have the F-4 in Wargame Red Dragon. Checking Wikipedia because this is out of my specialty, I see that the F-4 was withdrawn from the Royal Navy (which is what you use in PotO) in 1978, and the campaign happens in 1984 iirc.

I think the rule the game used was "all units still used in the 80 in any significant number, some old units in theory not used in the 70ies if they fill a gap in the line-up or if they are really symbolic, and some units from after the 90ies if they are really cool".

Honestly, PotO is the worst campaign of the lot, as you can just wait in defense the whole lot. The other campaigns are all way better, and of course MP is where the charm is.

Do I register you for Poland ?

 

[Chaosdwarft]

A few tips I learned along the way and for new players building their decks:

1. VETERANCY OF UNITS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN NUMBERS! Veteran units have such a big advantage over low-rank units. They get better aim, more morale before panicking, overall they perform way better. Now you can have low-rank units such as conscript infantry to help you screen stronger units especially when going into villages (aka Tank death trap).
2. SCOUT, be like the eye of Sauron! Make sure you keep vision on enemy units with scout units. How many times did my columns suffer at the hands of a few well placed infantry units; or some Anti Air that was hidden and took down my precious planes. Also, you are gonna need it to plan those artillery strikes.
3. SUPPLY, those frontlines. Don't forget to bring trucks or helicopters to ferry those supplies to your troops.
4. HIDE, that command unit, if it dies you don't control the zone anymore and you lose its precious income.
5. COVER, learn all the types and how they work, especially in relation to LINE OF SIGHT.

 

[Endemic]

Honestly, PotO is the worst campaign of the lot, as you can just wait in defense the whole lot. The other campaigns are all way better, and of course MP is where the charm is.

Sure, but I wanted to get the hang of basic gameplay before going online. Also, I did wait in defense and lost the first fight in a very lopsided manner

 

[RK47]

*doesn't even know what game they're talking about*

 

[ValeVelKal]

*doesn't even know what game they're talking about*

https://store.steampowered.com/app/251060/Wargame_Red_Dragon/

 

[ValeVelKal]

Guys, if everyone starts from a very low level in MPwe can have training matches rather than a loopsided competition.

I am not great, but I believe I am adequate at this game.

Endemic Dayyālu Chaosdwarft ?

 

[Chaosdwarft]

Yeah, I am up for some training. This will also be an opportunity to test our decks and workout any shortcomings. I found that playing vs AI does not prepare you for the MP scene.

 

[Dayyālu]

I am not great, but I believe I am adequate at this game.

I am devastatingly rusty, thus I am ok with some sparring. Even if we don't end up with a tourney, some Red Dwagon matches with no pubbie MP inanity are a godsend. Then we can even some videos for the people that are curious, or something.

I ask a single thing to the judge: considering that NATO second-tier kit is common, I'd ask for a slight revision of the picks for Italy, using a heavily curated Scandinavia instead.

You know why. Plus it's all Leo variants and Starfighters an' somewhat good infantry

And the thing

Spoiler

 

[ValeVelKal]

I am not great, but I believe I am adequate at this game.

I am devastatingly rusty, thus I am ok with some sparring. Even if we don't end up with a tourney, some Red Dwagon matches with no pubbie MP inanity are a godsend. Then we can even some videos for the people that are curious, or something.

I ask a single thing to the judge: considering that NATO second-tier kit is common, I'd ask for a slight revision of the picks for Italy, using a heavily curated Scandinavia instead.

You know why. Plus it's all Leo variants and Starfighters an' somewhat good infantry

And the thing

Spoiler

GRANTED !
Especially since the thing is not even used by the Danes after all, but is by the Italians