NWN Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition - Beamdog's final enhancement - now with new premium modules

[YES!]

...You have also made me curious how you would react to a comment arguing that Fallout was a terrible game because it did not have FPC.

I'd like to see an argument that shows how the lack of FPC made either real FO a better game, especially without the fan patches that make it way, way more functional. There was at least a 66% chance you needed to reload in either in combat because you got sprayed in the back by your companion/s or they just did something utterly wrong. The real FOs were awesome games, but that was despite lack of FPC in combat.

I actually agree that Fallout would probably have been better with FPC (to clarify in the event you misunderstood my comment to imply otherwise), at least if encounters were rebalanced to take that into account. Though it does seem the fact that many proponents of FPC also love games lacking that feature such as FO constitutes evidence indicating how simplistic it is to judge games simply by going down some checklist of desired features, with no regard for how they are implemented or how they interact with other elements in the game. NWN also might well have been better if FPC had been included from the beginning and the whole game designed around it being there (though in NWN's case it is a more complicated question since one would also have to consider how it would have affected the multi-player system, among other things). My main concern there is about implementing it retroactively, which if done is more than likely to result in a kludgy, barely useable system, which none of the existing modules are designed to work with, while incidentally introducing all sorts of bugs.

I'm not a fanatic that defends a game's bad attributes just because I like it. I love both real FOs despite some major issues, one being combat itself being centered around a save/load eye crit fest that 100% ensures I can win any encounter with no exceptions.

Since I did not enjoy the combat in NWN giving me more control would just increase the tedium. I prefer NWN not having FPC and only 2 characters. In my perfect world it would have four party members I create, 100% accurately implemented rules (including full TB combat), and it would have a fixed camera.

 

[fantadomat]

What faggots you all are.

Hahahaha you are loosing your mind love,you are in urgent need of a nice fuck . It is fun to throw shit at that manure pile called Beamdog and their "Enchants",but you are going bad shit insane. Still it is fun to watch.

 

[Average Manatee]

...You have also made me curious how you would react to a comment arguing that Fallout was a terrible game because it did not have FPC.

I'd like to see an argument that shows how the lack of FPC made either real FO a better game, especially without the fan patches that make it way, way more functional. There was at least a 66% chance you needed to reload in either in combat because you got sprayed in the back by your companion/s or they just did something utterly wrong. The real FOs were awesome games, but that was despite lack of FPC in combat.

I actually agree that Fallout would probably have been better with FPC (to clarify in the event you misunderstood my comment to imply otherwise), at least if encounters were rebalanced to take that into account. Though it does seem the fact that many proponents of FPC also love games lacking that feature such as FO constitutes evidence indicating how simplistic it is to judge games simply by going down some checklist of desired features, with no regard for how they are implemented or how they interact with other elements in the game. NWN also might well have been better if FPC had been included from the beginning and the whole game designed around it being there (though in NWN's case it is a more complicated question since one would also have to consider how it would have affected the multi-player system, among other things). My main concern there is about implementing it retroactively, which if done is more than likely to result in a kludgy, barely useable system, which none of the existing modules are designed to work with, while incidentally introducing all sorts of bugs.

FPC for Fallout would have taken too much of the character away from NPCs IMO. As bad as getting killed by a spray to the back was it happened once or twice a game. Fallout was never a game where complex combat tactics were supposed to be important, and if you wanted it that way then you balanced things out by not having much of a party. NWN is the opposite, it's almost entirely combat focused and the NPCs are cardboard cutouts only included to stand in for other players that would normally be able to do anything the main character would.

 

[Lacrymas]

NWN is the opposite, it's almost entirely combat focused and the NPCs are cardboard cutouts only included to stand in for other players that would normally be able to do anything the main character would.

Well, not really. Like I mentioned previously and gave examples from interviews, there is no indication given to assume that NWN was designed from the ground up for you to control a single character. Quite the contrary, they mention that they always wanted to have the henchmen but couldn't find the time from everything else, yet one of the programmers said he found a workaround. What that workaround is isn't clear, but I assume it means they are AI controlled instead of FPC. Only after the game had already been released that Trent started his insistent narrative that it was always designed to be this way and they only implemented henchmen because you'd need their skill sets (which isn't true, as you can finish the OC with 2 Barbarians if you wanted to).

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

FPC for Fallout would have taken too much of the character away from NPCs IMO. As bad as getting killed by a spray to the back was it happened once or twice a game. Fallout was never a game where complex combat tactics were supposed to be important, and if you wanted it that way then you balanced things out by not having much of a party. NWN is the opposite, it's almost entirely combat focused and the NPCs are cardboard cutouts only included to stand in for other players that would normally be able to do anything the main character would.

Once or twice a game?? Somebody clearly never gave Sulik or Ian an SMG. The NPCs barely had any character in the first game, but you make a fair point about 2 in terms of their combat behavior being character defining.

Nevertheless, full party control would’ve been a net improvement, if only because more of combat would be actual gameplay.

NWN is combat focused, but I don’t see how that makes full party control less appealing. If anything, a combat focused RPG where you control only half the combat is... suboptimal. If you’re going to have companions, you should be able to give them real orders. Controlling only the PC is fine when you have only one party member; it’s essential in an action RPG; it’s a damned waste in most other circumstances.

But jesus, the saving grace of NWN is that it’s so moddable. Wouldn’t it be smart to give the modders tools to implement full party control if they want to? I’d think that might actually help extend the shelf life of the franchise.

 

[Average Manatee]

Once or twice a game?? Somebody clearly never gave Sulik or Ian an SMG. The NPCs barely had any character in the first game, but you make a fair point about 2 in terms of their combat behavior being character defining.

Nevertheless, full party control would’ve been a net improvement, if only because more of combat would be actual gameplay.

NWN is combat focused, but I don’t see how that makes full party control less appealing. If anything, a combat focused RPG where you control only half the combat is... suboptimal. If you’re going to have companions, you should be able to give them real orders. Controlling only the PC is fine when you have only one party member; it’s essential in an action RPG; it’s a damned waste in most other circumstances.

But jesus, the saving grace of NWN is that it’s so moddable. Wouldn’t it be smart to give the modders tools to implement full party control if they want to? I’d think that might actually help extend the shelf life of the franchise.

If it happens once you should have learned not to stand in front of someone with an SMG. This isn't rocket science, people in the real world figure this out (and risk taking FF if they don't). Eventually you have metal or better armor and can basically shrug off everything but the very rare crits.

Fallout has a lot riding on the non-controllability of NPCs. It's a game where characters make pop culture references after missing and accidentally breaking their own leg. The point is clearly not tactical combat, it's more humor and adventure. Watching to see what the AI decides to do is part of giving them a recognizable character that is separate from the player, and having these characters makes the game more memorable and interesting.

No, I'm not saying that NWN makes FPC less appealing. I'm saying FPC is entirely appropriate and expected in a game like NWN.

 

[frajaq]

wasn't the original NWN campaign basically garbage

why are they doing this

 

[Captain Pronin]

Btw, did you guys watch the Shit-stream? Trent will likely open up FPC potential for community. Looks like he might hook in some people with bad taste who prefer to play non-authoritative, non-original incarnation of Aurora.

Too much malice, baby. What's wrong with you? =)))

 

[Immortal]

But jesus, the saving grace of NWN is that it’s so moddable. Wouldn’t it be smart to give the modders tools to implement full party control if they want to? I’d think that might actually help extend the shelf life of the franchise.

This isn't something you can let modders do unless they open source the engine. FPC would require fundamental changes to the engine.
Balancing the Campaigns for FPC though could be a good thing for modders to do. (Jk it's a waste of time)

 

[Lacrymas]

Tbh, the most beneficial thing Beamdog can do to get people to like the game is to grey out or remove the button for the OC and only allow them to start from SotU. Also bundle the EE with some of the best modules people have made. That will be 500 euro for the advice, Beamdog.

 

[d1nolore]

When I first played the OC I generally didn't use henchmen. At first I played the OC with my brother and we thought it was a great improvement over BG2 in terms of multiplayer. You could interact and follow everything. The OC was designed around being multiplayer compatible. Henchmen were clearly an afterthought, and there was clearly no intention of having FPC.

The expansions improved henchmen. I keep repeating myself here because no one bothers to think things through; do you honestly want Beamdog to redesign the engine for FPC? There's so many intricacies involved in implementation of FPC and Beamdog are already adding bugs with the tiny changes they are making.. so imagine the bugs from a FPC system.

Plus they core community don't have FPC high on the agenda and its mindlessly foolish to think they'll convert NWN haters with a FPC system. I'd rather they unhardcoded more aspects and let the community work out the systems.

 

[YES!]

If it happens once you should have learned not to stand in front of someone with an SMG. This isn't rocket science, people in the real world figure this out (and risk taking FF if they don't). Eventually you have metal or better armor and can basically shrug off everything but the very rare crits.

You make it sound like the party npcs never moved. Where you around and playing the FOs when they came out or is your only experience with the fan patched versions?

 

[Infinitron]

Also bundle the EE with some of the best modules people have made.

In all seriousnness, adding an in-game interface for the Neverwinter Vault (or an in-house equivalent) with search, ratings, etc, and automatic download and installation would be great. In fact I'd argue it's downright crucial.

 

[Lacrymas]

Beamdog actually have to put in some work and then test for bugs and squash those bugs? Unacceptable! They mustn't lift a finger! Think of the brow sweat! Really, though, here is what the situation is - Beamdog have proven themselves time and again to be parasites who only wreck and mar whatever they got their hands on, and using already written mods and passing them off as their own. Their only independent opus was overwhelmingly panned for ideological reasons, and even if you look at it without those ideological glasses, it's a 6/10 game at best and only because of itemization, some good quest design here and there (Dwarves of Dumathoin), and the good ol' IE combat. Given this context, if they want to stay afloat much longer they have to put in the work. Not only for FPC, but for a lot of things, like fixing bugs and redesigning the OC.

Even if FPC doesn't amount to anything for this particular game and only a few people come back to it for that reason, at least they can say they've done something of value. I'm pretty sure that people will support them financially if they find out that this time they aren't trying to parasitize. PR is also important for business, even if it's a tertiary concern, but Beamdog haven't been in the good spotlight for a while.

Not to mention that they've said they want NWN:EE to be NWN3, 4, 5.... Which means they'll want to sell their own modules, which will have to include FPC. Which means people won't have to wait forever to get a module featuring FPC. You following me here? This is probably the best thing Beamdog can do business-wise because it affords them a niche nobody can fulfill as fast as they can. Hell, include a short module featuring FPC at release as well. This is a ridiculously lucrative and once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, creating a need only you can satisfy, at least for a while.

 

[d1nolore]

Also bundle the EE with some of the best modules people have made.

In all seriousnness, adding an in-game interface for the Neverwinter Vault (or an in-house equivalent) with search, ratings, etc, and automatic download and installation would be great. In fact I'd argue it's downright crucial.

Pretty sure I suggested this somewhere earlier in the thread. Likely got a retard/shit rank from Lilura.

Something just like the multiplayer listing but for mods and with an auto download option for haks(check if they have first). This would be tremendous for the NWN community, much more so than FPC even if Beamdog could pull that off.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm just thinking about it in terms of added value. There's hundreds, thousands of hours of adventure out there in those modules that most CRPG players have never touched or heard of. It's all there, free for the taking. You give people an easy way to access that and you've got yourself a quality product. That's true even if the NWN community dies tomorrow. They've already created so much.

 

[Lacrymas]

But it won't bring them a steady flow of work and cash after that. I'm thinking this from the perspective of a business, their business. Yes, I'm all for a direct interface to the NWVault, but FPC is their saving grace in terms of money, not FPC directly, but the modules only they can create steadily and surely for that FPC. This is probably the best argument for the inclusion of FPC from both the perspective of the consumer and Beamdog, everything else is ephemeral and Beamdog don't care and will never care because they are leeches only in it for the money. Here you go, Beamdog, an almost endless fount of money if you can create worthwhile modules.

 

[d1nolore]

Put the OC's in there with a ranking system and see where they end up

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

NWN was a mistake.

Also, Codex > Lilura's blog. We also have way more views, like, way more views.
Here you're allowed to excrete your worthless opinion about the dumbass games that you like as much as you want without getting banned.

 

[YES!]

But it won't bring them a steady flow of work and cash after that. I'm thinking this from the perspective of a business, their business. Yes, I'm all for a direct interface to the NWVault, but FPC is their saving grace in terms of money, not FPC directly, but the modules only they can create steadily and surely for that FPC. This is probably the best argument for the inclusion of FPC from both the perspective of the consumer and Beamdog, everything else is ephemeral and Beamdog don't care and will never care because they are leeches only in it for the money. Here you go, Beamdog, an almost endless fount of money if you can create worthwhile modules.

And their EE that brings absolutely nothing to the table for people like me won't bring them any money at all. I'd actually buy the EE if it did what Infinitron and anyone else who proposed that functionality suggested. As of right now, the EE did absolutely zero I care about or think is worth one penny.

 

[Lacrymas]

And their EE that brings absolutely nothing to the table for people like me won't bring them any money at all. I'd actually buy the EE if it did what Infinitron and anyone else who proposed that functionality suggested. As of right now, the EE did absolutely zero I care about or think is worth one penny.

That's the thing, many people have your opinion and that's not good for Beamdog's pockets. They offer absolutely nothing with this EE and they really haven't fostered any goodwill lately. They care only about the money (and working as little as possible), so I'm giving them a very lucrative business idea that I think is the only thing they'll listen to and is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Yes, it will be great if they add a direct interface with the NWVault, but it's not a realistic possibility given their track record. No worthwhile enhancements are. I was just going to say that their audience for this EE is very limited, but I checked the Steamspy statistics of the PS:T EE and I'm honestly shocked that 100k people have bought it, especially after the SoD fiasco. I don't know what to think of that.

 

[Lhynn]

NWN was a mistake.

No it wasnt, stop being gay and retarded.

 

[d1nolore]

NWN sold very well and NWN:EE will do well if it looks like they gave it a facelift. A lot of people here didn't like NWN but a lot of people did. It'll easily out sell PS:T ee

 

[Lacrymas]

I don't think the 'Dex are the target audience or are willing to buy this particular EE... Liking NWN doesn't mean you'll buy this sacrilege.

 

[d1nolore]

Anyone demanding FPC or TB combat was never the NWN target audience.