NWN Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition - Beamdog's final enhancement - now with new premium modules

[Cael]

Yes, yes, yes. Like how Cate Blanchett went indepth into how we are all killing the environment and are all evil carbon polluting bastards. Gimme a break.

rogueknight333 is an acclaimed module creator for NWN. Like, he literally made some of the best stuff for this game, so he kinda can be assumed to know his shit.
Cate Blanchett is an actress. She might not know very much about the environment, merely take an interest in environmental issues and possess some level of education here and there.
But here, within this sphere, you're basically doing something akin to telling Vault Dweller that he has no experience with creating RPG systems and that you are not interested in his worthless opinion.
Do you see the problem?
And it's not even that you possess some arcane knowledge about the subject that everyone else hasn't figured out yet - you have like 6 people disagreeing with what you're saying, and at least one of them can be literally certified to be an expert. It would help if your first reaction to people disagreeing with you on this matter - or in many other discussions, such as on D&D 3.5, RTSes and a whole bunch of other stuff - wasn't to immediately assume they lack knowledge and that they're retarded.
Like, I'm all for bants, but yours are supported with the equivalent of being OG Loc with a nerf gun at a Grove Street Families reunion. You are argumentative to a fault, and that fault tends to be that every single one of your arguments hinges on "Well, that never happened to me, and if it happens to you, you probably most certainly have 47 chromosomes."

*yawn* You assume that I haven't made a module myself. The problem with people is that they make assumptions about others because they don't like what the other guy is saying. Me? I don't make assumptions. For example, I KNOW Liang is an idiot because he is so strident about his druid 20/rogue 3/wizard 17 build. I KNOW Lilura is an megalomaniac from her posts.

Now, I don't know who rogueknight is, nor do I care. What I will not do is to automatically genuflect to him because some people on the Internet happens to love him for whatever reason. Would I value his opinion? Of course, IF he proves himself to me to my satisfaction.

As for you, well, your opinion is easily discarded because... well, I don't have to spell it out for you, do I, Mr Angry Rick?

 

[Dzupakazul]

The problem with people is that they make assumptions about others because they don't like what the other guy is saying. Me? I don't make assumptions.

One of your earlier posts in the thread, which I absolutely can't be bothered to source, says that "nobody plans a build in NWN for level 40, at most you hit level 27". What about specific adventures that are meant to continue your journey all the way through epic levels? What about PvP servers where everyone starts at level 40? What about sheer theorycrafting fun of it all? What about the idea that even a highly specialized late-bloomer build can't make any concessions throughout levelling to be more palatable? Do you honestly believe that a character who already put 20 levels into Druid is somehow incapable of handling himself in a levelling environment even though Liang's already posted how he makes it work? How about how you assume that NWN1 character building works exactly like it does in 3.x, which was what your entire line of argument hinged on when you said that you never ever forsake advancing in caster levels without a good reason to do so, and then promptly proceeded to dismiss every single good reason to do so, because you transposition absolutely asymmetrical tabletop experience onto a game that makes a fuckton of concessions in how its engine works? How about that time you were plain wrong about how flat-foot mechanics work and got rightly called out on that?

For example, I KNOW Liang is an idiot because he is so strident about his druid 20/rogue 3/wizard 17 build.

Without even going into Liang's explanation for why and how his build works, making a competent build that mixes two different casters isn't new, or even easily dismissable just because it doesn't work in tabletop or because 3.5's Mystic Theurge is a shit prestige class.

 

[Cael]

The problem with people is that they make assumptions about others because they don't like what the other guy is saying. Me? I don't make assumptions.

One of your earlier posts in the thread, which I absolutely can't be bothered to source, says that "nobody plans a build in NWN for level 40, at most you hit level 27". What about specific adventures that are meant to continue your journey all the way through epic levels? What about PvP servers where everyone starts at level 40? What about sheer theorycrafting fun of it all? What about the idea that even a highly specialized late-bloomer build can't make any concessions throughout levelling to be more palatable? Do you honestly believe that a character who already put 20 levels into Druid is somehow incapable of handling himself in a levelling environment even though Liang's already posted how he makes it work? How about how you assume that NWN1 character building works exactly like it does in 3.x, which was what your entire line of argument hinged on when you said that you never ever forsake advancing in caster levels without a good reason to do so, and then promptly proceeded to dismiss every single good reason to do so, because you transposition absolutely asymmetrical tabletop experience onto a game that makes a fuckton of concessions in how its engine works? How about that time you were plain wrong about how flat-foot mechanics work and got rightly called out on that?

For example, I KNOW Liang is an idiot because he is so strident about his druid 20/rogue 3/wizard 17 build.

Without even going into Liang's explanation for why and how his build works, making a competent build that mixes two different casters isn't new, or even easily dismissable just because it doesn't work in tabletop or because 3.5's Mystic Theurge is a shit prestige class.

You are all over the place and throwing out accusations to cover your ass.

You don't plan for a level 40 build because that is where the game ends, if you did the module right, assuming you bothered to make one that long. What is the point of getting to L40 for just (maybe) the last battle? So you get Mord Disjunc. So what? You can use it on the last boss and game ends. Woohoo.

You see, that is what I was talking about when I made the flippant comment that Liang starts the game at L40. It is understandable that you are unable to let go of it or understand what I was getting at because the concept of sarcasm is something that you simply won't entertain due to your drive to want to "humiliate" someone on the Internet (which is, of course, funny in and of itself).

The whole reason for not forsaking caster levels is something that even rogueknight, your god, has spoken about and contradicted Liang on: overcoming spell resistance. It has nothing to do with TT but on the fact that toons easily get legitimate items that gives epic level SR and many of the high end mobs come with SR inbuilt. A level 40 drow, for example, has 52 SR in his undies. There is no way a L20 druid is going to affect them. A L40 druid would have less than 50% chance of affecting them without investment in anti-SR feats. And while there are spells that ignore SR, they are inefficient and can be negated using basic protection like damage reduction, which many epic level creatures also have. A Balor has SR in the region of 32 or 35 (I can't be bothered to look it up) and is a CR20 creature. Liang's druid 17/rogue 3 has somewhere between a 15-30% chance of affecting it, depending on the SR. Caster level counts whether you like it or not.

Oh, and isn't it funny that one of your posted builds has levels in MONK, not rogue for the ubah p-p-p-p-powahful uncanny dodge. It is like the guy doesn't know what he is talking about.

Protip, boy: Turn on your sarcasm detector this time.

 

[Lhynn]

You are all over the place and throwing out accusations to cover your ass.

Actually he has been correct in everything.

You don't plan for a level 40 build because that is where the game ends, if you did the module right, assuming you bothered to make one that long. What is the point of getting to L40 for just (maybe) the last battle? So you get Mord Disjunc. So what? You can use it on the last boss and game ends. Woohoo.

A lot of modules start at level 40. Modules either go from 1 to 5, from 20 to 27ish or from 40.
The reasoning is pretty simple. Either you are making a new character for a fresh adventure, you are taking the character from the first or second campaign into epic levels or you have already completed your build and are ready for the crazy.

The whole reason for not forsaking caster levels is something that even rogueknight, your god, has spoken about and contradicted Liang on: overcoming spell resistance.

Very few enemies have a MR that could possiby keep up to that degree, and most of them can be dealt with easily with spells that ignore it.

It has nothing to do with TT but on the fact that toons easily get legitimate items that gives epic level SR

If i remember correct "epic level MR" that comes from items caps at like 32, which is retardedly low if you take the feats to increase penetration, which you should because there are no good feats for casters until epic levels. On top of being able to easily lower their SR, even with scrolls. Tho liangs build sounds like it could easily melee those drows.

Really, as someone that has played monk for years ive found SR to be overrated.

 

[Cael]

You are all over the place and throwing out accusations to cover your ass.

Actually he has been correct in everything.

You don't plan for a level 40 build because that is where the game ends, if you did the module right, assuming you bothered to make one that long. What is the point of getting to L40 for just (maybe) the last battle? So you get Mord Disjunc. So what? You can use it on the last boss and game ends. Woohoo.

A lot of modules start at level 40. Modules either go from 1 to 5, from 20 to 27ish or from 40.
The reasoning is pretty simple. Either you are making a new character for a fresh adventure, you are taking the character from the first or second campaign into epic levels or you have already completed your build and are ready for the crazy.

The whole reason for not forsaking caster levels is something that even rogueknight, your god, has spoken about and contradicted Liang on: overcoming spell resistance.

Very few enemies have a MR that could possiby keep up to that degree, and most of them can be dealt with easily with spells that ignore it.

It has nothing to do with TT but on the fact that toons easily get legitimate items that gives epic level SR

If i remember correct "epic level MR" that comes from items caps at like 32, which is retardedly low if you take the feats to increase penetration, which you should because there are no good feats for casters until epic levels. On top of being able to easily lower their SR, even with scrolls. Tho liangs build sounds like it could easily melee those drows.

Really, as someone that has played monk for years ive found SR to be overrated.

A dex focused druid/wizard can somehow be good at what they are supposed to be doing takes a bit of swallowing.

At any rate, more evidence of Liang's supposed "genius": http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...coming-april-24th.99331/page-103#post-5569475

 

[Lhynn]

dex focused druid/wizard can somehow be good at what they are supposed to be doing takes a bit of swallowing.

Standard gish. Doesnt rely on wis for anything but memorization, and he can get plenty with magical items, even if he dumps wis to an 8.
He has access to the best buffs in the game, tho i rather go for cleric than druid, but different strokes for different folks i guess.

Im guessing the characters weakness is anyone with a high caster level to dispel, but for anything else the game should be remarkably easy.

 

[Cael]

dex focused druid/wizard can somehow be good at what they are supposed to be doing takes a bit of swallowing.

Standard gish. Doesnt rely on wis for anything but memorization, and he can get plenty with magical items, even if he dumps wis to an 8.
He has access to the best buffs in the game, tho i rather go for cleric than druid, but different strokes for different folks i guess.

Im guessing the characters weakness is anyone with a high caster level to dispel, but for anything else the game should be remarkably easy.

Can he even cast spells with a casting stat less than 10+spell level he is trying to cast? You can't in TT, but I admit I never tried it in NWN.

 

[Jason Liang]

My druid/ wizard/ rogue build isn't Dex based, but I use halfling so it's fairly cheap to start with 16 or 18 Dex. Depending on how you want to spend your Epic feats, it's possible to get to 30 WIS 20 INT for Dragonform, or alternatively get auto-Quicken Spell I-IX spell levels (which is made much easier by taking Wizard levels Epic). Auto-Quicken I-IX is actually not as awesome as it sounds.

Like I said, taking some splash of rogue and wizard pre-Epic doesn't really hurt a Druid's power progression that much; Druid doesn't need to beeline for his lvl 9 spells like Wizards. You hit level 20 with Druid 16/ Rogue 2/ Wizard 2, or, if you don't care about +1 BAB, Druid 17/ Rogue 2/ Wizard 1. If you are willing to sacrifice 16 skill points and Evasion by not taking level 1 rogue, you can be at Druid 18/ Rogue 1/ Wizard 1 and take 2 rogue levels in Epic instead. By level 27 you are at Druid 20/ rogue 3/ Wizard 4. Having the potential to hit level 17 Wizard is a nice perk, but it's not like Wizard spells I-VIII is shit either.

 

[Cael]

The key word in my post is "STILL". I have replayed the game with its expansion at least tow times. When it comes to Never i have him because is a useless arrogant buffoon that couldn't tie his shoes. Also he decided to kill Aribeth instead of giving her to me at the end. I could have easily slathered my way trough his pitiful city,garbage ruler. Still the game have some pretty solid writing,mainly the companions. You don't get some branching paths dialogue,but you do get some pretty good small stories. 15 years later i still remember quite a few of them and give a small chuckle when i re read them. The story as a whole was pretty decent when it came out,the ancient lizards and all that shit were novelty.

PS:The best thing in the first chapter is the option to kill the sjw communist bitch in the nobles district.

Dude, they changed precisely NOTHING in the EE. It was basically a cash grab.

I always did the quest for the sjw because it gave better XP and reward, I think. It was either that or alignment points. I can't remember exactly.

The companion dialogues were hilarious, and the ancient lizards were basically sarrukhs, which do exist in canon Realms lore. By the end of NWN, you should be powerful enough to rescue Aribeth by force, should it come to that. You just assaulted an entire world of psycho lizards powerful enough to grant cleric spells to their faithful. What is Neverwinter compared to that? The mere threat of violence should be enough for even the Many Starred Druggies to go, "Uh-oh. Give him what he wants, you moron!" It is just that the game never allowed you to, which is a shame.

I couldn't agree more,except that you charge a world if lizard people with you henchman .

Does anyone here knows how to disable the day/night cycle in the game?

What henchman? Never used one in the whole OC. I just hired them to get their story and quests and then dumped them in the merc guild or wherever it is I got them from. Never take them on my wanderings as they suck up precious, precious XP :D

 

[Cael]

My druid/ wizard/ rogue build isn't Dex based, but I use halfling so it's fairly cheap to start with 16 or 18 Dex. Depending on how you want to spend your Epic feats, it's possible to get to 30 WIS 20 INT for Dragonform, or alternatively get auto-Quicken Spell I-IX spell levels (which is made much easier by taking Wizard levels Epic). Auto-Quicken I-IX is actually not as awesome as it sounds.

Like I said, taking some splash of rogue and wizard pre-Epic doesn't really hurt a Druid's power progression that much; Druid doesn't need to beeline for his lvl 9 spells like Wizards. You hit level 20 with Druid 16/ Rogue 2/ Wizard 2, or, if you don't care about +1 BAB, Druid 17/ Rogue 2/ Wizard 1. If you are willing to sacrifice 16 skill points and Evasion by not taking level 1 rogue, you can be at Druid 18/ Rogue 1/ Wizard 1 and take 2 rogue levels in Epic instead. By level 27 you are at Druid 20/ rogue 3/ Wizard 4. Having the potential to hit level 17 Wizard is a nice perk, but it's not like Wizard spells I-VIII is shit either.

Well, Lhynn. Are you ready to retract your statements about your friend now?

 

[Pizzashoes]

I think the boys here can find a better video game waifu than one who writes about Neverwinter Nights 1. I do like asian women, though.

 

[Jason Liang]

My girlfriend loves playing Bomberman, and I love playing Bomberman with her.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Cael, Jason Liang, I made a special playground just for you two:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/cael-vs-jason-liang.121304/

Enjoy!

 

[Jason Liang]

Druid/ Wizard/ Rogue Dragon Shape build

Start:
Halfling Rogue
STR 6
DEX 16
CON 8
INT 18
WIS 16
CHA 8

1 Rogue 1 Expertise OR Luck of Heroes
2 Druid 1
3 Druid 2 Spell Focus: Necromancy
4 Druid 3 +1 WIS (17)
5 Druid 4
6 Druid 5 Zen Archery
7 Druid 6
8 Druid 7 +1 WIS (18)
9 Rogue 2 Greater Spell Focus
10 Druid 8
11 Druid 9
12 Wizard 1 +1 WIS (19) Extended Spell OR Empowered Spell
13 Druid 10
14 Druid 11
15 Wizard 2 Spell Penetration
16 Druid 12 +1 WIS (20)
17 Druid 13
18 Druid 14 Greater Spell Penetration
19 Druid 15
20 Druid 16 +1 WIS (21)
21 Druid 17 Great Wisdom (22)
22 Wizard 3
23 Druid 18
24 Druid 19 +1 WIS (23) Great Wisdom (24)
25 Druid 20
26 Rogue 3
27 Wizard 4 Great Wisdom (25)
28 Wizard 5 +1 WIS (26) Epic Spell Focus
29 Wizard 6
30 Wizard 7 Great Wisdom (27)
31 Wizard 8
32 Wizard 9 +1WIS (28)
33 Wizard 10 Great Wisdom (29), Epic Spell Penetration
34 Wizard 11
35 Wizard 12
36 Wizard 13 +1 WIS (30), Dragon Shape
37 Wizard 14
38 Wizard 15 Great Intellect (19)
39 Wizard 16 any feat
40 Wizard 17 +1 INT (20)

Obviously you can delay taking the last Rogue level however long you feel like to max out the Rogue skills. If you sacrifice some skill points you can get Dragonform at level 33 instead of 36. Taking Druid 21 instead of Rogue 3 allows an Epic Spell like Epic Ruin.

 

[Cael]

Druid/ Wizard/ Rogue Dragon Shape build

Start:
Halfling Rogue
STR 6
DEX 16
CON 8
INT 18
WIS 16
CHA 8

1 Rogue 1 Expertise OR Luck of Heroes
2 Druid 1
3 Druid 2 Spell Focus: Necromancy
4 Druid 3 +1 WIS (17)
5 Druid 4
6 Druid 5 Zen Archery
7 Druid 6
8 Druid 7 +1 WIS (18)
9 Rogue 2 Greater Spell Focus
10 Druid 8
11 Druid 9
12 Wizard 1 +1 WIS (19) Extended Spell OR Empowered Spell
13 Druid 10
14 Druid 11
15 Wizard 2 Spell Penetration
16 Druid 12 +1 WIS (20)
17 Druid 13
18 Druid 14 Greater Spell Penetration
19 Druid 15
20 Druid 16 +1 WIS (21)
21 Druid 17 Great Wisdom (22)
22 Wizard 3
23 Druid 18
24 Druid 19 +1 WIS (23) Great Wisdom (24)
25 Druid 20
26 Rogue 3
27 Wizard 4 Great Wisdom (25)
28 Wizard 5 +1 WIS (26) Great Intellect (18)
29 Wizard 6
30 Wizard 7 Great Wisdom (27)
31 Wizard 8
32 Wizard 9 +1WIS (28)
33 Wizard 10 Great Wisdom (29), Epic Spell Focus
34 Wizard 11
35 Wizard 12
36 Wizard 13 +1 WIS (30), Dragon Shape
37 Wizard 14
38 Wizard 15 Great Intellect (19) OR another feat
39 Wizard 16 Epic Spell Penetration OR another feat
40 Wizard 17 +1 INT (20)

Obviously you can delay taking the last Rogue level however long you feel like to max out the Rogue skills. If you sacrifice some skill points you can get Dragonform at level 33 instead of 36.

Druid 1 with panther animal companion. You are already dead at level 1.

The rest of your character build is a bloody waste of time.

 

[octavius]

This thread makes me really not want to play NWN.

 

[Cael]

This thread makes me really not want to play NWN.

Stopped playing it years ago. It was fun for a while, but other things were better. It is just fun goading mainlander shits.

 

[Pizzashoes]

The game is terrible. Just an unplayable mess. It took until NWN2 for anything resembling quality, and that game's combat is still worthless.

But I'm sure it's got some good qualities.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

This thread makes me really not want to play NWN.

Stopped playing it years ago. It was fun for a while, but other things were better. It is just fun goading mainlander shits.

Is this some kind of KMT thing?

 

[Jason Liang]

I have no idea why he thinks I'm a "mainlander."

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I have no idea why he thinks I'm a "mainlander."

Do you live on an island?

 

[Jason Liang]

Alternatively, if you are willing to sacrifice ~ 40 skill points (and early Rogue skills), you can get to Dragon Shape by lvl 33 and Wiz 17 by lvl 36; and human for an extra feat (Improved Expertise)

Druid/ Wizard/ Rogue Dragon Shape alternate build

Start:
Human Druid
STR 8
DEX 14
CON 8
INT 16
WIS 18
CHA 8

1 Druid 1 Spell Focus: Necromancy, Expertise
2 Druid 2
3 Druid 3 Greater Spell Focus
4 Druid 4 +1 WIS (19)
5 Druid 5
6 Druid 6 Zen Archery
7 Rogue 1
8 Druid 7 +1 WIS (20)
9 Druid 8 Empowered Spell
10 Druid 9
11 Wizard 1
12 Druid 10 +1 WIS (21) Improved Expertise OR Extended Spell
13 Druid 11
14 Druid 12
15 Druid 13 Spell Penetration
16 Wizard 2 +1 WIS (22)
17 Druid 14
18 Druid 15 Greater Spell Penetration
19 Druid 16
20 Druid 17 +1 WIS (23)
21 Wizard 3 Great Wisdom (24)
22 Wizard 4
23 Rogue 2
24 Wizard 5 +1 WIS (25) Great Wisdom (26), Great Intellect (17)
25 Wizard 6
26 Wizard 7
27 Wizard 8 Great Wisdom (27)
28 Wizard 9 +1 WIS (28)
29 Wizard 10 Great Intellect (18)
30 Wizard 11 Great Wisdom (29)
31 Wizard 12
32 Wizard 13 +1 WIS (30)
33 Druid 18 Dragon Shape
34 Wizard 14 Epic Spell Focus
35 Wizard 15
36 Wizard 16 +1 INT (19), Epic Spell Penetration
37 Wizard 17
38 Rogue 3
39 Druid 19 any feat
40 Druid 20 +1 INT (20)

You take Rogue 3 and either Druid 20 or Wizard 20 with the last 4 levels. Wizard 20 comes with an extra epic feat. Alternatively, if you don't take Rogue 2 at 23, you can take Wizard 21 at 39 and pick up Epic Mage Armor or Epic Warding.
Nevermind, you need Druid 18 for Dragon Shape

 

[fantadomat]

I have no idea why he thinks I'm a "mainlander."

He is Australian,everyone is a mainlander for him . I have noticed that Cael is really butthurt when it comes to Chinese people. Maybe some chink eat his kenguru or something.


Also,wasn't a dragon form shit? I feel that majority of the game you will suck with this build.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Druid 1 with panther animal companion. You are already dead at level 1.

Boy oh boy I'm so glad that the first thing that happens in any NWN module is that when you reach the exit for the Chapel of Challenges and the best warrior in your tribe is a Druid with a Panther challenging you to a fight to the death so that you can prove yourself. God forbid that you might be dealing with something else at level 1, like, idk, goblins. Or that you might very well sneak up on the tier 1 caster who at that point still has a d8 HD, which might very well get one-shot by a sneak attack. Or that you might just sneak away and never meet him. In fact, I propose Liang's rogue build is so amazing at sneaking that no such druid will ever spot him.

Stop moving goalposts. If we all had to optimize in D&D around meeting an optimized level 1 druid with his animal companion, everyone would start with a level of druid. Including wizards, whom at level 1 would get completely wrecked if said druid was also an elf to make sure their one trick, Sleep, can't work. (If you'd suggest that the wizard instead learns Color Spray, it would contradict your opinion from the other D&D thread where you said Color Spray is always irrevocably awful and people are retarded for putting it in as a tier 1-tier 2 spell) Does that happen?

It might even be that Liang's build is not the most optimal, but it still actually has a pretense of working, has a plan around it, and doesn't shit up the thread with more and more zany accusations and weird, circular logic, which is what the NWN community was about, nobody ever contributed to any NWN community by creating retarded shitposts and implying that every possible game ends at level 27. No, I don't believe that you were just using sarcasm, because you have a very weird tendency to assume that everyone else plays games the way you do, and you throw a shitfit whenever it turns out there are other ways to play a game.

Also,wasn't a dragon form shit? I feel that majority of the game you will suck with this build.

He gets Zen Archery, a fuckton of Druid utility, and an animal companion. He can competently fire away with magical arrows and bows (which, to my understanding, work with a 3.0 ruleset, so damage-dealing with bows doesn't suck like it does in D&D 3.5). He should be doing fine in 98% of the modules. Certain modules and servers also change the ways shapeshifting works, so Druid/Shifter builds have always been sort of sketchy if it wasn't certain where you were playing.

 

[Roguey]

This thread makes me really not want to play NWN.

Most NWN campaigns make one not want to play NWN, but on the plus side, the ones worth playing (and even the ones that aren't) don't require being so particular about character building.