Neverwinter Nights - why are you guys so negative ?

[Jedi359]

NWN may have gotten screwed up, but I agree with Monkey. I loved the BG series and KOTOR.

 

[Elwro]

To add a comment on graphics everyone here but our charming newcomer is of course aware of, NWN's 3d is fake because it doesn't have any Z axis.

It's not easy to find a well-written module; the hailed Pools of Radiance (NWVault's Hall of Fame inductee) was quite badly written. Adam Miller is the only modder whose writing I find sufficient; there's of course the brilliant "The Devil in the Stone" by Studio Sarmatia, but that's in Polish...

 

[Astromarine]

It didn't sour me on Bioware, as I'm eagerly awaiting Jade Empire. Dragon Age I'm waiting to find out more about. I don't view it as original ip, I view it as a D&D game without the sweaty fat publishers for Hasblow breathing down their necks. I'll wait and see what they can do when they have no constraints, and therefore no excuses. DA will be the game that, if it sucks, will sour me on Bio permanently, at least as far as RPGs are concerned.

 

[Sarvis]

So what this boils down to is sour grapes because Bioware made the game accessable to more than just lonely D&D rules lawyers?

Yeah, I guess any company that tries to increase it's audience is a bad one that should fail.

Way to miss the point you fucking loser, If you don't see the room for complaint in pissing off a large section of your original dedicated and supportive fan base, oh well
Yes, of course they (bioware) are free to attract new fans, but that doesn't erase plenty of people who are pissed off about the way game developed, hence my reply to the question at the head of the thread, so eat shit, fucking noob bio-whore.

I honestly wouldn't have been at all interested in the game you originally described. I bought the game specifically because of the ability to play fan created modules in single player. If it were multi-player only I wouldn't have had any interest whatsoever. It is not a case of "not knowing any better," as you so blithely claim. It is a case of people having different interests from you and Bioware being a smart enough corporation to try release a game that more than a small portion of the gaming community would enjoy.

Of course you wouldn't you're exactly the type intellectual gaming roadkill I describe,
suprised?

Why is Sherriff lying? Others who oppose NWN may have false opinions (imo); but at least they don't (usually) lie. Sad, really.

That's my opinion of what I saw and experienced, if you have a FACTUAL discrepancy
that's not just your personal opinion please elborate, as it be a fucking miracle

You see, now this is the problem here. If you guys don't like the game, then fine. But none of you seem to have actual reasons for disliking it, beyond repetative graphics or some imagined case of Bioware promising some feature you wanted and didn't get. Worse yet, you guys immediately start in with insults if someone expresses support for the game.

I'm "gaming roadkill" because I like one game that you don't? You don't know _anything_ about my gaming habits, so how can you even make such a judgement? NWN provided what I wanted in a game at the time, so I like it. You think Bioware broke into your house and kicked your puppy or something, so you hate it. Fine with me, but note how I'm _not_ calling you a "fucking loser" because you have a differing opinion.

 

[Sheriff05]

Fine with me, but note how I'm _not_ calling you a "fucking loser" because you have a differing opinion.

No, I called you a "fucking loser" because of the stupid shit you said, in response to myself and others here, If you read my post you see that in my case
I don't like the game because

A) I don't think they made the game they'd claimed they make
B) Bioware still claimed to me they'd make "that" game repeatedly, adding just be patient with our changes, they will be better, you'll see
C) Finally, they changed the direction of the game to totally to gear it towards idiiots
who like their dumbed down repetive crap

If you notice in my previous post I applauded the NWN community and I should mention that while I played NWN (thru XP2) I found several fan made modules I liked and even built of few of my own. I also played the game in small group multiplayer format where I found many enjoyable games. BUT The bucks stops at Bioware, I gave them all the time in world to make good on their promises to fix the fucked up things in the game, to listen to their fans and work on things like fixing the bugs in the DM client, realinging the 2DAs
properly, fixing the ruleset, etc, etc...every concession they made was the easiest shit possible while the hard work went into stupid shit like epic levels, mulitplayer support for MMORPG style servers, so I said fuck these people and the assholes that like this game
it sucks and I've wasted 5+ years of life having an interest in it.

So, you see, you don't really know what the fuck you're talking about and while of course you are entitled to your shitty little fanboy opinion, If you come over to this site and tell us where a bunch of "RETARDS" for disliking NWN. you are going to get
called a "Fucking Loser" and hopefully alot worse,
so once again, eat shit, you pussy motherfucker.

 

[DamnElfGirl]

I just love it when people ask why "we" (note that the Codex does tend to host a wide variety of different opinions) don't like a game, then won't accept any of the reasons that people don't like the game.

I was highly disappointed in NWN for several big reasons. The main reason I bought NWN was because I wanted to design and run D&D games for my friends on-line. NWN claimed to be the product that would let me do so. I bought the product, took a look at the toolset, and couldn't figure out a damned thing. There was no instruction for the toolset in the manual. I became mildly annoyed. I bought the supposed "strategy guide" for making the toolset work. I learned how to do some very basic things, but I also learned that doing anything beyond sticking a bunch of kobolds in a hallway was going to require a ton of coding.

I hate coding.

I tried to press on nonetheless. After trying for three hours to add a simple trapdoor to a house, I began to realize that I was never, ever going to be able to design and run fun D&D games on-line with my friends.

I've played the game very sporadically since then. I'd like to enjoy it, I really would. But the combat is so brainless that I get bored playing even the better-designed modules. And yes, the severe lack of tilesets does turn me off. I'm happy for you if you're okay playing a thousand games in cities that all look alike. I get bored.

My husband liked the game enough to buy the expansions, and I'll admit I enjoy playing modules with him sometimes. At least then we don't need henchmen. Unfortunately, with the more recent patches they've fixed it so that you need a unique serial for the game and all expansions to play even on a LAN. We're not buying a copy of every single bit for every member of our household, Bioware. Sorry. It just ain't that good.

 

[Sarvis]

Well, at least you start off sounding mature and reasonable here.

No, I called you a "fucking loser" because of the stupid shit you said, in response to myself and others here, If you read my post you see that in my case
I don't like the game because


A) I don't think they made the game they'd claimed they make
B) Bioware still claimed to me they'd make "that" game repeatedly, adding just be patient with our changes, they will be better, you'll see
C) Finally, they changed the direction of the game to totally to gear it towards idiiots
who like their dumbed down repetive crap

Which boils down to sour grapes. You read something into their initial brainstorming ideas for a game, then got severely disappointed when those ideas never came through. OH NO!!! A game EVOLVED during development! Those bastards!

Ever consider that the market for people who only want to play dm'd games online might be relatively small? That the company might not have made any profit if they had released your game, and thus not had the community they have now, nor the ability to make more games?

But none of that matters, because you didn't get what you wanted. So they are now bastards. Awwww....

If you notice in my previous post I applauded the NWN community and I should mention that while I played NWN (thru XP2) I found several fan made modules I liked and even built of few of my own. I also played the game in small group multiplayer format where I found many enjoyable games. BUT The bucks stops at Bioware, I gave them all the time in world to make good on their promises to fix the fucked up things in the game, to listen to their fans and work on things like fixing the bugs in the DM client, realinging the 2DAs
properly, fixing the ruleset, etc, etc...every concession they made was the easiest shit possible while the hard work went into stupid shit like epic levels, mulitplayer support for MMORPG style servers, so I said fuck these people and the assholes that like this game
it sucks and I've wasted 5+ years of life having an interest in it.

So you enjoyed the game to at least some extent, enjoy the fan mods... but still have this unreasoned hate for Bioware? You don't see any problem with the game being enjoyable yet hating the people who made it?

You also don't understand how people who _weren't_ around during the games development might not be disappointed in any way with what was released?

Seriously, I'll probably be around for most of the Dragon Age development. But even if it somehow turns out to be D&D rules I don't think I'll be as pissed off at Bioware as you are. I may not buy the game, but I won't call anyone who supports the game in any way a "pussy motherfucker."

So, you see, you don't really know what the fuck you're talking about and while of course you are entitled to your shitty little fanboy opinion, If you come over to this site and tell us where a bunch of "RETARDS" for disliking NWN. you are going to get
called a "Fucking Loser" and hopefully alot worse,
so once again, eat shit, you pussy motherfucker.

[/quote]

Actually, I do know what I am talking about. I bought a game and enjoyed it. To you that is some treasonous action, even though you admit to finding some redeeming value in it yourself.

For the record, I wasn't caling everyone retards... not in the strictest sense anyway. I was only mirroring the language and attitudes you "gaming intellectuals" display every time this topic comes up. More directly I was mirroring xJEDx's claim that NWN attracts mostly idiots.

Not that I expect you to understand the difference...

 

[Sheriff05]

I was highly disappointed in NWN for several big reasons. The main reason I bought NWN was because I wanted to design and run D&D games for my friends on-line. NWN claimed to be the product that would let me do so. I bought the product, took a look at the toolset, and couldn't figure out a damned thing. There was no instruction for the toolset in the manual. I became mildly annoyed. I bought the supposed "strategy guide" for making the toolset work. I learned how to do some very basic things, but I also learned that doing anything beyond sticking a bunch of kobolds in a hallway was going to require a ton of coding.

Thanks for reminding me of classic example. While in itself the toolset is really only about an 8 hour learing curve to the completely uninitiated. Its a good point that to the person such as yourself (with no interest in investing time to learn it) there WAS ZERO SUPPORT FOR THE TOOLSET.
Bioware had claimed for long time they'd being releasing a series of multiplayer modules with a built in good tutorial for the DM client (which has about a 1 hour max learning curve) That would have removed a hopeful players need to learn how to build and code there own module if they wanted to DM, they should have been able to run a mulitplayer DM game out fo the box, but you couldn't. Instead all you got were jiggly boobs on Aribeth, and broken conversations and bugs if you tried to mulltiplay the crappy OC

 

[Sheriff05]

Actually, I do know what I am talking about. I bought a game and enjoyed it. To you that is some treasonous action, even though you admit to finding some redeeming value in it yourself.

Yes- you dense asshole, I convinced myself to enjoy it for a period of time in a small multiplayer format with alot of help from my own work and other community members, No thanks to Bioware

You know only your own opinion, which is ignorant of the development of the game and the claims Bioware made about it, and that's about it.


here it is real simple for you-

"Bioware misrepresented their product."

You call it sour grapes, I call it bullshit, In my opinion the game in it's entirety and in retrospect is a steaming pile that won't ever see a hard drive I own again.
Kudos to you for loving and defending it, (that in itself tells me alot about you)

You're really in the wrong place if you're looking to convince people of your way of thinking. If you really only just need one person to agree with you about something to satiate your ego, I'm sure Volourn's lurking ready with her usual "liar, liar, pant's on fire"

 

[Volourn]

"I don't view it as original ip"

Then you obviously don't know the definition of the phrase original ip then.


"Bioware misrepresented their product."

No, they didn't.

They presneted NWN as a toolset, DM client, MPcapable, and an OC/SP game. Those were all represented. No misrespresentation on their aprt.

The percieved (non)quality of said elementsd in said product are all opinion. Deal with it.

 

[Sarvis]

Yes- you dense asshole, I convinced myself to enjoy it for a period of time in a small multiplayer format with alot of help from my own work and other community members, No thanks to Bioware

No thanks to Bioware. So they didn't provide the toolset, game engine, artwork and everything else for you?

You know only your own opinion, which is ignorant of the development of the game and the claims Bioware made about it, and that's about it.

And? You only know your opinion as well.

here it is real simple for you-

"Bioware misrepresented their product."

You call it sour grapes, I call it bullshit, In my opinion the game in it's entirety and in retrospect is a steaming pile that won't ever see a hard drive I own again.

When? How? The game is, as advertised, an implementation of D&D rules that allows people to build their own modules and play them online with a DM.

Maybe their original ideas were a little different, but if you don't expect a game to evolve through it's development then it is probably a damn good thing most companies aren't so open with information during the dev process. Otherwise you'd have to hate every game developer out there!

Kudos to you for loving and defending it, (that in itself tells me alot about you)

It tells you nothing about me except that I enjoy playing NWN.

But just for the sake of argument, please tell me what you think you can tell about me from that.

You're really in the wrong place if you're looking to convince people of your way of thinking. If you really only just need one person to agree with you about something to satiate your ego, I'm sure Volourn's lurking ready with her usual "liar, liar, pant's on fire"

I'm only trying to point out that you guys are being pretentious assholes spewing undeserved venom at people for liking something you don't.

Without even any good reason.

It's somehow "cool" on this forum to hate Bioware and NWN, and if you don't every insult in the book gets immediately hurled in your direction.

 

[Elwro]

It's somehow "cool" on this forum to hate Bioware and NWN, and if you don't every insult in the book gets immediately hurled in your direction.

What? Where did you get this impression from? I've been enjoying this forum for many months and I neither hate Bioware nor NWN. And no one has insulted me as yet. BTW, you must consider this place's regulars as mentally equivalent to 8 year olds if you think they hate a computer game and a gaming company. I don't think we're so childish.
If one behaves like a stupid troll, one should not be surprised that people around here are throwing all kinds of shit at him. I can only tell you that your thread seems to be ignored. Perhaps this place is just sick of people whose sole purpose of coming and posting here is to resurrect a topic that's been dealt with at least a year ago. I don't know where you see the NWN hate you've been posting about. Before starting this thread you should've done your homework and read Saint's review, as it mentions many aspects of the game we've been disappointed with.

 

[undead dolphin hacker]

Just shut the fuck up, Sarvis. Your posts are annoying just to scroll past.

 

[Sheriff05]

"Bioware misrepresented their product."

No, they didn't.

They presneted NWN as a toolset, DM client, MPcapable, and an OC/SP game. Those were all represented. No misrespresentation on their aprt.

The percieved (non)quality of said elementsd in said product are all opinion. Deal with it.

yes, but the integration, implementation and quality of those was definitely misrepresented upon initial release.
(although yes- the quality is totally subjective to one's opinion)
fixing certain things over 2 years time and 2 expansions, doesn't somehow now validate the original product.


and Elwro, you're right, I don't know why I even bothered-

 

[Sarvis]

What? Where did you get this impression from? I've been enjoying this forum for many months and I neither hate Bioware nor NWN. And no one has insulted me as yet. BTW, you must consider this place's regulars as mentally equivalent to 8 year olds if you think they hate a computer game and a gaming company. I don't think we're so childish.

This impression was formed before even joining the forum, when I saw the comments people posted towards every news item that shows up about Bioware. It's only reinforced by this thread, which contains such mature comments as:

"We're negative because you're French. Thus it's hip (and rewarding) to hate you and anything you like."
"The first of today's "Volourn proves he is a tool" posts! Man, it's as predicatable as watching The Price is Right on a sick day."
" Who cares? If they're too lazy to get up and join a good devhouse or program their own engine, I couldn't really care less about how good their ideas are."
"You need understand why many say FUCK YOU."
"Because it attracts mostly idiots?"

If one behaves like a stupid troll, one should not be surprised that people around here are throwing all kinds of shit at him. I can only tell you that your thread seems to be ignored. Perhaps this place is just sick of people whose sole purpose of coming and posting here is to resurrect a topic that's been dealt with at least a year ago. I don't know where you see the NWN hate you've been posting about. Before starting this thread you should've done your homework and read Saint's review, as it mentions many aspects of the game we've been disappointed with.

First of all, I didn't start this thread. I'm also not trolling, I'm just countering the "points" people are making around here... which are limted to the graphics being repetative and calling everyone who likes NWN an idiot.

If you guys are so sick of this topic, why the hell is this thread 3 pages long?

 

[Sarvis]

"Bioware misrepresented their product."

No, they didn't.

They presneted NWN as a toolset, DM client, MPcapable, and an OC/SP game. Those were all represented. No misrespresentation on their aprt.

The percieved (non)quality of said elementsd in said product are all opinion. Deal with it.

yes, but the integration, implementation and quality of those was definitely misrepresented upon initial release.
(although yes- the quality is totally subjective to one's opinion)
fixing certain things over 2 years time and 2 expansions, doesn't somehow now validate the original product.


and Elwro, you're right, I don't know why I even bothered-

Yeah, because the support for games like ToEE, which was recommended to me here, is SO much better.

 

[Sarvis]

And no one has insulted me as yet. BTW, you must consider this place's regulars as mentally equivalent to 8 year olds if you think they hate a computer game and a gaming company. I don't think we're so childish.

Just shut the fuck up, Sarvis. Your posts are annoying just to scroll past.

Yeah, the clientele here is MUCH more mature than 8 year olds...

 

[Jedi359]

Let's see.

1. The single player campaign seemed tacked on, and not well done at all. The storyline was stupid, and it wasn't enjoyable.
2. In a game that advocates multiplayer playablity, the single player campaign couldn't be played online without completing it first, unless one was lucky enough to find a game the played the chapter from the beggining.
3. Inability to save your game in the middle of it in a multiplayer game. Long modules are very irritating to finish, because if it takes 8 hours to play through, than you have to sit there for 8 hours and play the whole damn thing.
4. The vaunted DM client was a pain. I would have liked a Basic DM client, designed to allow players new to the experience to learn about the program and create simple modules, and an Advanced client, for players who want to tackle the nitty gritty stuff.
5. The graphics. But that's already covered and not as important as the gameplay stuff.
6. Poor implementation of DnD 3e rules.
7. Poor implementation of NPC hirelings.
8. This is just personal, but I hated the fact that it was single character style.
9. Lack of Dev designed modules right out of the box. It would have been nice to have more dev designed modules, to see some examples of module design. And don't say they released them later, because that's like excusing a bug because it eventually got patched.

If I think of anymore, I'll post them here.

 

[Jedi359]

Yeah, the clientele here is MUCH more mature than 8 year olds...

He stated his opinion about your posts. You have to understand that the older people on this board have been listening to people like you for years, retreading the same old arguments. They are sick of hearing it.

 

[Sheriff05]

Yeah, because the support for games like ToEE, which was recommended to me here, is SO much better.

Asshole, you don't get it nor are you likely to. Like a pig I'll leave you to wallow in your
own shit as they are also oblivous to their surroundings.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

This thread would rate as a LOLZ 1/2

The review Saint posted up pretty much sums up a lot of the problems it had on release. Personally, I agree with the review, even if NWN eventually did got better along the way due to continued support.

If reading the review doesn't placate people's curiosity, then there are several other threads in the forums explaining it, even threads started by similarly intrigued people. I'd suggest the curious ones to search trough the forums (which is not such a lenghtly task) instead of nearly demanding people to tell them what they want to know.

 

[Sarvis]

Yeah, because the support for games like ToEE, which was recommended to me here, is SO much better.

Asshole, you don't get it nor are you likely to. Like a pig I'll leave you to wallow in your
own shit as they are also oblivous to their surroundings.

You guys just keep getting more and more mature! It's amazing!

What now? You don't see the comparison between you complaining that various bugs and changes weren't put in by Bioware in NWN, while people on this board recommend and praise a game with almost no support whatsoever? It's ok for you to complain that the NWN community had to make many changes and additions while ignoring the co8 team doing the same things for ToEE?

You're right. I don't get it. Perhaps because there is nothing to get? You decided to get all pissy about Bioware because you wanted something specific and they didn't provide it for you. That is your only point and you know it.

Perhaps your opinion would be worth something if you were even remotely capable of doing it without resorting to insults.

At least someone like Jedi359 was able to make valid points, without resorting to calling anyone a pig.

 

[Jedi359]

I'm doing it because this is the first time I've had to defend my dislike of NVN. Most of the Vet's on the board have done it plenty of times. For example:

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... ter+nights

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... ht=bioware

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... ter+nights

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... ter+nights

There are four threads involving NWN, and I only stopped because I was bored. You didn't seem willing to do the legwork, so now there is no excuse as to why you can't read these threads.

 

[Sheriff05]

[What now? You don't see the comparison between you complaining that various bugs and changes weren't put in by Bioware in NWN, while people on this board recommend and praise a game with almost no support whatsoever? It's ok for you to complain that the NWN community had to make many changes and additions while ignoring the co8 team doing the same things for ToEE?

Two different games asshole, one that stuck to it's premise with an 18 month development cycle using it's publishers beta testers and the other a game that never quite decided what it wanted to be that an over five fucking year development cycle and 50 in house beta testers..big fucking, no gigantic fucking difference
regardless of each games short commings ToEE, wins hands down in amount of my personal time wasted or enjoyed playing it.

You're right. I don't get it. Perhaps because there is nothing to get? You decided to get all pissy about Bioware because you wanted something specific and they didn't provide it for you. That is your only point and you know it.

Look I've illustrated my point on numerous threads other than here. I've basically said the same things Jedi is spelling out for you point by point, Are you really this fucking stupid that you can't comprehend where I am coming from other than your lame ass teenage flamebait?, you really are an incredible fucking loser
I don't like the game, you do.., you don't like my reasons, so what, FUCK YOU, I don't like your pathetic existence.

 

[crufty]

I will add my two cents. NWN didn't really suck. It just wasn't awesome.

Sure it rocked--at first. I dug the graphics. I don't play a lot of games, so they were good enough for me.

But then the O/C started to drag. And drag. And drag. And it was obvious what was going on. It was fairly linear. And it was painful. Then it was painfully obvious how linear this thing really was going to be. If there were choices made, they didn't stick out. There was no Guardian voice suddenly warning me to "Be Careful, Avatar." There was no detailed Wizardry 7 style intrigue (a game that was pretty hard). But I can deal with that.

What really made it suck for me:

5.1 npc at a time
4. No horses
3. No npc control, nor any npc schedules
2. No real reward for playing

and number one reason:

1. After I bought a new computer, while cleaning up, I threw away the manual thinking I had scribbled the cd-key on the cd. Nope. Now I have a cd which I can't re-install.

For me, a CRPG should have lots of stuff to do. Ultima 7, for example. Loved it.

Which is kind of sad really. The graphics were spot on for me (zoomed out anyway)...waching my little dwarf monk run around was just like moving the mini in pnp playing. The npc ai, while odd, was better than what I had seen recently. It was just LAME that there was no reason why I couldn't take more than one npc at a time. Ultima 7 would not be nearly as well known if it had similar restrictions.