Next gen consoles and "RPG" development

[Zomg]

"Good" RPGs have a tiny audience and next-gen titles are going to have a break-even point well over a million copies because of art costs. Therefore none of what we would call good RPGs will be made. I expect that there will be a few games that have sort of a "Pixar"' dual-audience formulation, with a smartish "upper level" of appreciation matched to adults and a lower level for teens, university students and other subhumans - I think Morrowind had a bit of that, with the "lol, cliffracers" matched to the fairly erudite writing and pseudohistory.

If there's going to be a set of RPGs aimed entirely at our niche it's going to have to come out of an entirely separate tradition, either from some low production value indie/direct distribution method or from defacto alternative developers like the Russian guys. Which means PC, pretty much. If one of those types somehow creates a big The Sims -type hit it will spill over into console experiments.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

the demographics DO change, I think, consoles are no longer kid or teen toys only or even mainly. a quick search turned this up:
http://www.theesa.com/archives/2003/05/ ... _posit.php

Already the largest demographic group is 18-35 year old males - which will proably encompass a lot of us here. And it will keep aging. The question is when developers will start to actually think about new niches in this demographic reality.

 

[Revasser]

"Good" RPGs have a tiny audience and next-gen titles are going to have a break-even point well over a million copies because of art costs. Therefore none of what we would call good RPGs will be made.

Sad, but true. Being under the corporate thumb sucks.

 

[Whipporowill]

There's a lot to be said about that general 18-35 male demographic - to begin with they're supposed to be into "beer, women, cars and sports". Not particularly open to RPG's as a target audience I'd say. Most of them don't follow game news and can't name many game brands and franschises. Anyone figure out why there's so many sport sequels as of yet?

 

[Chefe]

Next gen Console RPGs = OBLIVION

 

[Sarvis]

There's a lot to be said about that general 18-35 male demographic - to begin with they're supposed to be into "beer, women, cars and sports". Not particularly open to RPG's as a target audience I'd say.

You mean I'm not supposed to like RPGs? Aww...

 

[Whipporowill]

There's a lot to be said about that general 18-35 male demographic - to begin with they're supposed to be into "beer, women, cars and sports". Not particularly open to RPG's as a target audience I'd say.

You mean I'm not supposed to like RPGs? Aww...

Heck. I'm somewhat in that demographic myself so...

... just saying the Joe Average doesn't - and that's where consoles are aiming their attention, at least most of the time.

 

[Revasser]

There's a lot to be said about that general 18-35 male demographic - to begin with they're supposed to be into "beer, women, cars and sports". Not particularly open to RPG's as a target audience I'd say. Most of them don't follow game news and can't name many game brands and franschises. Anyone figure out why there's so many sport sequels as of yet?

Ugg like man who chase ball. Not man who chase balls! Me real man, like ball, not balls. Ugg like boobies too. Car go fast. Ugg like fast, hurr hurr. Woman! Bring Ugg more beer!

 

[Zomg]

The age thing was just me being obstreperous. The main point is that we're a small audience that likes a thing most people at best can take or leave, and the console and bigtime PC industries have maneuvered into a place where they can't service niche markets on our scale.We might secretly think that there's a leviathan ur-RPG waiting to sell thirty million copies and change video games - and indeed, human nature - forever, just waiting to be made, but no one else thinks that.

I do have a separate fear that the industry is going to stupidly chase quarterly profits based on children and teenagers, who are more vulnerable to marketing and less ossified in niche taste, down the rabbit hole the way the comics industry did and culturally marginalize itself permanently.

 

[HardCode]

"Non-Linear was born on the PC. I mean, look at the original Pirates! I mean that shit was... what, that started on a console? Really? Fuck. Well, uh... Dracula called, and hes coming over for dinner tonight, and I said ok."

Oh really?

The original 1987 version made by MicroProse was widely ported from the original Commodore 64 version.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier's_Pirates!

Asshat.

 

[Whipporowill]

And the C64 is more the forefather of the pc than say... the nintendo system. Not much of a point I'd say.

 

[Whipporowill]

Also, about Russia and the ex-commie block saving the crpg market. It probably won't happen as long as some people have their way:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/reuter ... 56957.html

Jens Uwe Intat told Reuters on Friday that consumers in the Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland who started playing games on PCs are moving to dedicated games consoles -- a sign of market maturity that also makes illegal copying harder.

 

[Revasser]

Also, about Russia and the ex-commie block saving the crpg market. It probably won't happen as long as some people have their way:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/reuter ... 56957.html

Jens Uwe Intat told Reuters on Friday that consumers in the Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland who started playing games on PCs are moving to dedicated games consoles -- a sign of market maturity that also makes illegal copying harder.

Of course, we all know that when an EA rep opens his mouth, vomitous garbage is spewed forth. That's just a fact of nature.

 

[Lumpy]

I don't get it - how does the platform relate to the quality of a RPG?

 

[Whipporowill]

Of course, we all know that when an EA rep opens his mouth, vomitous garbage is spewed forth. That's just a fact of nature.

It's also a bad sign if they're probably telling the truth, at least somewhat - console sales are on the rise, and we all know what that means.

I don't get it - how does the platform relate to the quality of a RPG?

1.0. Name an rpg made for consoles.
1.1. Name a good rpg made for consoles.
1.2. Name a rpg on a console that couldn't be better on a pc (say in terms of interface et c).

I'd be surprised if you make it past 1.1.

 

[Revasser]

Of course, we all know that when an EA rep opens his mouth, vomitous garbage is spewed forth. That's just a fact of nature.

It's also a bad sign if they're probably telling the truth, at least somewhat - console sales are on the rise, and we all know what that means.

The Apocalypse Draws Nigh?

 

[Sarvis]

1.0. Name an rpg made for consoles.
1.1. Name a good rpg made for consoles.
1.2. Name a rpg on a console that couldn't be better on a pc (say in terms of interface et c).

1.0 Dragon Warrior
1.1 Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
1.2 The Bard's Tale

(Yeah yeah, Bard's Tale is an Action/RPG but the interface was actually WORSE on the PC than on the console!)

 

[Whipporowill]

1.0 Dragon Warrior
1.1 Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
1.2 The Bard's Tale

(Yeah yeah, Bard's Tale is an Action/RPG but the interface was actually WORSE on the PC than on the console!)

Call me crazy, but I don't count jrpgs as rpgs - as they're simply created for consoles from the start of the phenomenon (AFAIK), and has been working the same formula since then. Crpgs on the other hand has more or less devolved into crpgs:light at the best of times. Considering games such as (based on your bias) Ultima series, Fallout, Baldur's Gate et c we're not getting much on console these days.

Oh, and Bard's Tale is a port - I'm of the belief that the at least the ui wouldn't be that bad if it was aimed at PC as it's premier platform.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

"Non-Linear was born on the PC. I mean, look at the original Pirates! I mean that shit was... what, that started on a console? Really? Fuck. Well, uh... Dracula called, and hes coming over for dinner tonight, and I said ok."

I don't think so, Quigs. Pirates! was out in the 1980s on the Apple][ series, Commodore 64, and so forth. The NES version wasn't out until the 1990s.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

1.2 The Bard's Tale

(Yeah yeah, Bard's Tale is an Action/RPG but the interface was actually WORSE on the PC than on the console!)

Ports really don't count. Ports typically have shittier interfaces because the developers just try to emulate console controls on the PC keyboard and add a few quickly done mouse routines. There's a reason why KotOR's inventory interface sucks ass when BioWare's earlier CRPGs actually had decent inventory management.

 

[Sarvis]

1.0 Dragon Warrior
1.1 Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
1.2 The Bard's Tale

(Yeah yeah, Bard's Tale is an Action/RPG but the interface was actually WORSE on the PC than on the console!)

Call me crazy, but I don't count jrpgs as rpgs - as they're simply created for consoles from the start of the phenomenon (AFAIK), and has been working the same formula since then. Crpgs on the other hand has more or less devolved into crpgs:light at the best of times. Considering games such as (based on your bias) Ultima series, Fallout, Baldur's Gate et c we're not getting much on console these days.

Imagine that, console RPGs are just like the original RPGs you found on both consoles AND computers while Computer "RPGs" are devolving.

Yeah.

Oh, and Bard's Tale is a port - I'm of the belief that the at least the ui wouldn't be that bad if it was aimed at PC as it's premier platform.

Not really. It would have been just a Dungeon Siege interface anyway probably. Console interfaces are often simpler, faster and easier to use just because they have to be. You may not have 24 keys available... but I've yet to see a game which NEEDS that many buttons anyway! (Maybe some flight sims, but even X-Wing didn't use half the keyboard.) Part of the problem is that everything on computers becomes a mouse interface, and the mouse pretty much sucks. You're pretty lucky to get some decent keyboard shortcuts... but that's about the best you can hope for. Plus I can lie down while console gaming, and constantly change positions to keep comfortable instead of having to sit in the same position I do all day at work!

 

[crufty]

I've always thought the problem with console rpgs was capacity and resolution. However with 1080p, ram sizes > 32kb and usb hard drives, that problem should go away.

That leaves the remaining problem: designs which force the story and remove player choices beyond "Frost Sword or Fire Sword?". However, that could just be a matter of time. So maybe there is hope?

 

[Quigs]

Unlike computers that were distributed only through authorized dealers, Commodore also targeted department stores and toy stores. The unit could be plugged directly into a television set and play compelling games

Read your own links moron. c64 is more of a console then PC.

 

[Chefe]

There was an NES version of Pirates!...?

 

[Shagnak]

c64 is more of a console then PC.

No it's not.
Many home computers could do that; it is hardly the definition of a console.

That would make my ZX81, Vic 20, and Amiga all consoles as well. And quite possibly all my current PCs.
They are not.