Squeenix NieR: Automata from Yoko Taro and Platinum Games

[newtmonkey]

The only problem I have with this game is that the performance is awful on a GTX 1050 TI (just like Nioh). The only way to get solid 60 fps is to take the resolution down to 1280x720. FAR helps, but I end up having to turn GI so low that the game starts looking stupid (and still hiccups in areas with lots of effects). 1280x720 runs at a solid 60 fps even with max settings, so I am just keeping it at that (it is the same exact issue with Nioh actually).

I know the GTX 1050 TI is not an amazing card, but still, I can run Witcher 3 on ULTRA at 1920x1080 and the performance is much better. Dark Souls 3 maxed runs nearly perfect. Nier and Nioh are the only games that my PC cannot run without issue at 1920x1080.

OH WELL. Both Nier and Nioh are awesome, and I can deal with 1280x720, so I am just happy that I can play these games.

 

[Silva]

A shame what they did with the PC port. On PS4 it runs great.

For those who finished it, this page has some neat clarifications about the weapons stories:
https://theark.wiki/w/Notable_Weapon_Stories

It's like if Miyazaki came out and explained Soulsborne lore. :D

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Lol can't remember Vaarna last non-ironic/don't know if serious post. But I agree with this one. Great post, bro.

Hey Cowboy Moment , have you finished this game? I like to hear your opinions, even when I don't agree with them.

I'm specially curious to see how this fare against Persona 5 and it's authors cowardice to get more overt in its issues, and the dissonance between the game mantra (get up, stand up etc) and what the protags actually do (stay prone taking it in the ass until someone shoes up to help you).

I stopped close to what I think is the end of the first route. I do plan to get back to it sooner rather than later and resume posting in this thread, but I'm not following it in an attempt to dodge spoilers. I didn't really stop because I disliked Nier: Automata, more like I was travelling a lot, and then had very little time to play games, which I mostly spent on the occasional old shmup.

 

[Silva]

Can someone explain to me why...

Spoiler

Ro-Shi says something about being betrayed in that final combat sequence in the tower? He also mumbles about becoming as god. Maybe he is the cult leader from the factory that died thinking he would become as God, and ended up just being uploaded to another machine body?

..

Lol can't remember Vaarna last non-ironic/don't know if serious post. But I agree with this one. Great post, bro.

Hey Cowboy Moment , have you finished this game? I like to hear your opinions, even when I don't agree with them.

I'm specially curious to see how this fare against Persona 5 and it's authors cowardice to get more overt in its issues, and the dissonance between the game mantra (get up, stand up etc) and what the protags actually do (stay prone taking it in the ass until someone shoes up to help you).

I stopped close to what I think is the end of the first route. I do plan to get back to it sooner rather than later and resume posting in this thread, but I'm not following it in an attempt to dodge spoilers. I didn't really stop because I disliked Nier: Automata, more like I was travelling a lot, and then had very little time to play games, which I mostly spent on the occasional old shmup.

Cool. If you finish it, please contrast it to P5. I suspect it will be its polar opposite, that is more bold in its themes and ideas but having weaker mechanics.

And a piece of advice: as the mechanics are kinda shallow, don't try to do all side content or you will be bored fast. It's a pity since a bunch side-quests are very interesting theme-wise, but you'll risk bore-quitting if you do more than 50% of them. Oh and play the intro on normal, THEN switch to hard. The intro has... difficulty problems. You'll thank me for it.

 

[Saark]

Can someone explain to me why...

Spoiler

Ro-Shi says something about being betrayed in that final combat sequence in the tower? He also mumbles about becoming as god. Maybe he is the cult leader from the factory that died thinking he would become as God, and ended up just being uploaded to another machine body?

Spoiler

I cant exactly remember what's being said in that entire encounter, but to me it mostly seemed to be about the machines futile attempts to "ascend" their original forms, i.e. become human. The machines have been lied to just as much as the androids have, since humanity doesn't exist anymore the machines lost their original reason for being, which is what I would assume the "being betrayed" refers to. With all the data available in the library in the tower, Ko-Shi/Ro-Shi are more than likely privy to that information.

 

[Silva]

Hmmm, indeed there were more dialogue that I didn't understand in that sequence. Being a kind of "lament of the machines" make sense.

What are your Top 5 side-quests in relevancy to the game themes and story, that you would recommend for someone who don't want to do any other quest? Mine would be:

1. Amnesia
2. YorHa betrayers
3. Treasure Hunt (Forest King)
4. 11B memento
5. Wandering Couple

 

[Silva]

Still on Ko-shi/Ro-shi...

Spoiler

Koshi and Roshi are named after Confucius and Laozi.

A2 fights Koshi. Confucianism in a nutshell holds tradition very highly and commends loyalty and conformity. A2 is a literal rebel and does things her own way.

9S fights Roshi. Taoism is more "go with the flow" and discourages interference (wu wei). 9S becomes obsessed in Route C and does everything he can to fulfill his goal.

Their black/white colors also suggest yin-yang/Confucianism-Taoism.

 

[Dayyālu]

What are your Top 5 side-quests in relevancy to the game themes and story, that you would recommend for someone who don't want to do any other quest? Mine would be:

1) Amnesia. It's not good, but relevant plotwise.
2) Find A Present. For reasons.
3) Emil's Memories. For other reasons. The change in the menu was moving.
4) Play With Us. A2's quests are too few.
5) The Wandering Couple. The underlying message is darkly amusing.

 

[Gerrard]

I am a bit drunk now, so forgive me.

I cannot think of a single game that has paid as much attention to music as Nier games. Recall in the first Nier when you end up fighting Popola and Devola, the music starts out with your typical sounding Nier boss music, and then those familiar vocals from their song kicks in and suddenly you realize both women are singing!!!! What other game does this????
Or how when you move throughout the town and the music dynamically changes, adding and dropping instruments/voices in real time LIKE FUCKING MONKEY ISLAND 2!!!!!!!!! Not only that, but remember how when you enter your hut it actually applies some weird effect to the main instrument that gives it this eerie sound.

Again, no game in the last 20 years has even thought of doing this, and here comes Nier with dynamic music for no reason than it's awesome.

So the fact that Automata does this too just impressed the hell out of me. There is no reason in this day and age to devote the time/money/resources to do this, cuz 99% of people don't give a shit, but they did it cuz it's awesome.

Probably because that's a really dumb thing to get into a lawsuit over.

 

[abnaxus]

Guess it had to happen.

Spoiler

 

[Dayyālu]

Can't read catspeak.

Is Taro directing, at least? We could kill two birds with one stone.

EDIT: Also, why 2B. Sigh, the masses truly have no taste....

 

[Jasede]

From a panel in Singapore:

Yoko Taro: “I think I’d want to make the Nier: Automata sequel that isn’t the one people are thinking I’d make. I think I’d jumble it all up.”
Question: “Yoko san, up to now you’ve been involved with games, a novel, and a stage play. But here on out, what kind of medium do you want to make?”
Yoko Taro: “I imagine this will be off putting, but I want to make an adult video. Once in my life, I’m thinking I’d like to make one.”

I can imagine it now. "Th- these aren't the fluids I was meaning to emit!! TAROOOO!!!"

 

[Krraloth]

Do you think he's the director of that?

 

[Saark]

I think hes more interested in being one of the actors.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

And he'd obviously be wearing his Emil mask.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Yoko Taro: “I think I’d want to make the Nier: Automata sequel that isn’t the one people are thinking I’d make.

Where's muh Drakengard 4???

 

[LESS T_T]

Taro going GDC: http://schedule.gdconf.com/session/...y-not-discuss-how-we-made-nierautomata/856501

A Fun Time in Which Some No-Good Game Developers May or May Not Discuss How We Made 'NieR:Automata'

Speakers:
Yoko Taro (Game Designer, Independent)
Takahisa Taura (Game Designer, PlatinumGames Inc.)

An unbelievably miserable lecture in which an extremely strange director, Yoko Taro, and an idiotic game designer, Takahisa Taura, will try to talk about the development of 'NieR:Automata', using their near-dead brains. It seems that they are thinking about taking a look back on the development of 'NieR:Automata', and how they came together to create one of the most perverse experiences in video game history. From the captivating imaginings of Yoko Taro to the satisfying action-packed battles of PlatinumGames Inc., they will discuss their design process and how they worked to bring the world of 'NieR:Automata' to life… is what they are saying they will do, but they may end up changing their minds and talking about what they have eaten in the US in detail for one full hour instead. No one can see into the future. Don’t you agree?

Takeaway
Attendees will most likely walk away with an appreciation of the game design process and further understanding of how certain design choices can affect the entire gameplay experience.

Intended Audience
Developers of all levels and those interested in learning more about how a game like 'NieR:Automata' is created. Or those who are attending GDC and are bored to death.

 

[Jaedar]

Hopefully that talk can be found online.

 

[Saark]

There's another one which should probably be attended by every AAA developer.

An Interactive Sound Dystopia: Real-Time Audio Processing in 'NieR: Automata'
Speakers:
Shuji Kohata (Audio Programmer, PlatinumGames Inc.)
Andrew Brasher (International Coordinator, PlatinumGames Inc.)


Due to recent technological advances with game hardware, sound designers have become able to apply real-time audio processing to their games in more creative ways. In this talk, the speakers will cover the spatial audio techniques used in NieR:Automata's desolate landscapes and natural environments, the noise and retro effects used to augment its mechanical themes, and the bonus voice changer feature.

Takeaway
Attendees should gain a better understanding of the use and configuration of real-time audio processing, and how it can be used to enhance the overall user experience.

Intended Audience
Anyone interested in spatial audio, virtual acoustics, or real-time audio processing, focusing in particular on sound directors, sound designers, composers, and audio programmers.

 

[Socur Toxanarosa]

Finished the game today, and it's shit, doesn't hold a candle against the first Nier.

- Combat mechanics are good but the overall gameplay is mediocre as fuck
- Samey enviroments and enemies all the way through
- Weak story and the twists had little impact unlike Nier
- Weak characters
- OST is great but it's very derivative from the predecessor
- The writing is silly as fuck, don't know if something was lost in translation during the localisation, but the whole philosophy bullshit in this game is juvenile and superficial to the point of being cringeworrthy, very animu
- Roube B was one of the worst pacing killers i ever saw in a game
- Ending(C~E) was shit compared to the Shadowlord fight

It's a 6/10 for me.

 

[Silva]

Now that time marinated my memories of the game, I think the next Nier should go full walking simulator ala SOMA, Senua, Edith Finch, etc. I think the RPG aspects add very little to the central goal that is the narrative and themes. A tight and immersive walking sim with some meaningful dilemas/choices here and there seems like a more effective formula to me, as it keeps the experience to the point and less taxing on the player.

The only exception to this is if - and only if - they manage to rise the gameplay to another level like in Souls/Nioh. I suspect this was the intention with Platinum from the beginning but it failed (probably due to lack of budget than incompetence on Platinum part). If Yoko is given a green light again by Square but on the same terms as before - that is, with low budget- they should go walking sim.

I still think the experience was worth it (and the last 1/3 is one of the most exciting I've seen in my life), but there is too many downsides to the current formula.

 

[Sentinel]

Now that time marinated my memories of the game, I think the next Nier should go full walking simulator ala SOMA, Senua, Edith Finch, etc. I think the RPG aspects add very little to the central goal that is the narrative and themes. A tight and immersive walking sim with some meaningful dilemas/choices here and there seems like a more effective formula to me, as it keeps the experience to the point and less taxing on the player.

The only exception to this is if - and only if - they manage to rise the gameplay to another level like in Souls/Nioh. I suspect this was the intention with Platinum from the beginning but it failed (probably due to lack of budget than incompetence on Platinum part). If Yoko is given a green light again by Square but on the same terms as before - that is, with low budget- they should go walking sim.

I still think the experience was worth it (and the last 1/3 is one of the most exciting I've seen in my life), but there is too many downsides to the current formula.

what the actual fuck are you talking about? The way the gameplay in Nier Automata interacts with the story is what gives it all its charm and powerful moments.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Next Nier will be the adult video that Yoko Tarko wanted to direct.

 

[Silva]

what the actual fuck are you talking about? The way the gameplay in Nier Automata interacts with the story is what gives it all its charm and powerful moments.

Yeah but at what cost? Being bored 1/3 of the not-so-short game lenght? What's that, 10 to 15 hours? Maybe 20h if you're a completionist? And who said you can't have story-gameplay links in another formula?

Taro San must make the experience tighter. That means cutting the fat and raising the signal-to-noise ratio. The series is about engaging the themes. Its at its best when you're pondering on what to do about Pascal'memories, or finding out what's behind the redhead's amnesia, or when you're wandering the desert digging clues of ancient civilizations with great atmospheric music behind. And its at its worst when youre traversing the same maps for the Nth time fighting the same enemies by the Tth time. In other words: It's at its best when its about exploration and dialogue, and worst when you're engagin with its RPG mechanics. There's a reason gameplayfags hate it and storyfags love it - Automata is a storyfag game disguised as a gameplayfag one.

Taro San if you're reading this send me a PM. I can help you. I charge cheap.

 

[Sentinel]

what the actual fuck are you talking about? The way the gameplay in Nier Automata interacts with the story is what gives it all its charm and powerful moments.

Yeah but at what cost? Being bored 1/3 of the not-so-short game lenght? What's that, 10 to 15 hours? Maybe 20h if you're a completionist? And who said you can't have story-gameplay links in another formula?

Taro San must make the experience tighter. That means cutting the fat and raising the signal-to-noise ratio. The series is about engaging the themes. Its at its best when you're pondering on what to do about Pascal'memories, or finding out what's behind the redhead's amnesia, or when you're wandering the desert digging clues of ancient civilizations with great atmospheric music behind. And its at its worst when youre traversing the same maps for the Nth time fighting the same enemies by the Tth time. In other words: It's at its best when its about exploration and dialogue, and worst when you're engagin with its RPG mechanics. There's a reason gameplayfags hate it and storyfags love it - Automata is a storyfag game disguised as a gameplayfag one.

Taro San if you're reading this send me a PM. I can help you. I charge cheap.

The solution to the problem isn't to make it a walking simulator. The Pascal moment is extra impactful because of what he says as you are hacking. If it was just a "Yes/No" question and then he said those lines, it wouldn't have the same impact. The same goes for that moment when you're in some hacking minigame and the camera zooms out to reveal the main menu. Or when you decide to wipe out your save and the game shows you all your inventory being deleted. The open world needs to go, and they need to add more enemies. There's nothing wrong with the gameplay itself - it's smooth and responsive, and flashy, but lacks depth - and turning it into a walking simulator would accomplish nothing. If anything, the game shows very well how low budget it was.