Squeenix NieR: Automata from Yoko Taro and Platinum Games

[Jedi Master Radek]

The game having different routes is a lie. You play the game linearly, witness a very small branching at the very end and then experience the true ending without the need to unlock it. * I was barely in the 1/5 of an A route when I convinced myself that the game has a some kind of pacifist route unlocked by not attacking yellow-eyed machines, completing most of the quests and doing some other requirements. When you first meet Adam and A2 they are nonaggressive and it's the player who initiate conflict.** This is especially exacerbated by the fact that in C/D route the game mentions YorHa cores being made of machine cores and then does nothing with it. There are some other loose ends, like the revelation about B2 identity or the whole thing with Adam and Eve that I thought are meant for the pacifist route, but I now believe all the things left unsaid are to enhance the feeling of tragedy and helplessness.

After finishing E ending I started a new game. (Cutscene literally mentions how improbable it is to have all pieces be at the same place leading to a different conclusion). I get to Adam hoping there is now a way of progressing the story without attacking him. It didn't work, I even tried to self destruct before him, but it only triggered combat . Surprised I looked online and I realized I have already reached the true ending. I was without an exaggeration SHOCKED. I even checked if there were cut routes planned but haven't found anything. Instead I found a hilarious story about the hidden door hoax

The upside of the whole thing is that I reread dialogues between B2 and S9 and experienced how terrifying the subtext is. The whole game I imagined B2 to be an introverted, awkward professional with a kind heart, but too much loyalty to YorHa (for much of the game I thought they were villains). I also realized you climb on the inactive Engels before fighting it in the prologue.

*Also calling a C/D route a 3rd route is nonsensical even under the game assumptions, it feels more like a continuation of a 2nd route rather than it's own thing.
** In the end it turned out to be a foreshadowing of B2 being E2.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

The game having different routes is a lie. You play the game linearly, witness a very small branching at the very end and then experience the true ending without the need to unlock it. * I was barely in the 1/5 of an A route when I convinced myself that the game has a some kind of pacifist route unlocked by not attacking yellow-eyed machines, completing most of the quests and doing some other requirements. When you first meet Adam and A2 they are nonaggressive and it's the player who initiate conflict.** This is especially exacerbated by the fact that in C/D route the game mentions YorHa cores being made of machine cores and then does nothing with it. There are some other loose ends, like the revelation about B2 identity or the whole thing with Adam and Eve that I thought are meant for the pacifist route, but I now believe all the things left unsaid are to enhance the feeling of tragedy and helplessness.

After finishing E ending I started a new game. (Cutscene literally mentions how improbable it is to have all pieces be at the same place leading to a different conclusion). I get to Adam hoping there is now a way of progressing the story without attacking him. It didn't work, I even tried to self destruct before him, but it only triggered combat . Surprised I looked online and I realized I have already reached the true ending. I was without an exaggeration SHOCKED. I even checked if there were cut routes planned but haven't found anything. Instead I found a hilarious story about the hidden door hoax

The upside of the whole thing is that I reread dialogues between B2 and S9 and experienced how terrifying the subtext is. The whole game I imagined B2 to be an introverted, awkward professional with a kind heart, but too much loyalty to YorHa (for much of the game I thought they were villains). I also realized you climb on the inactive Engels before fighting it in the prologue.

*Also calling a C/D route a 3rd route is nonsensical even under the game assumptions, it feels more like a continuation of a 2nd route rather than it's own thing.
** In the end it turned out to be a foreshadowing of B2 being E2.

Because they aren't routes. Taro is very autistic about player freedom and agency within the limits of a videogame. He keeps trying to reach that nebulous spot of "what videogames can be/do" as he explains in different panels. To put it shortly, and especially in Automata, every ending is a drop off point: the player can feel they're done with the game if they get ending A only and also if they go all the way through the game and get ending E. It's been like that since Drakengard 1, with all the endings being slight variations in gameplay that lead to different conclusions.

In Automata's case, repetition of cycles is a theme given the nature of the game's story and the way things are presented in the game world. 2B has killed 9s around 50 times already, because 9S has found the truth around 50 times already. Everything is done in a cycle, and 2b is in on the happenings (which is why she cries, it's killing her to do those things to someone she cares so much about). A similar story is presented in side materials, where an android is guarding a base that's supposedly in the moon. Her cycle is finding out that the moon base is a hoax and that the base is just a placeholder to keep up the charade, and that the base itself is under the sea. Her pod(s) kill her when she finds out (there's physical evidence of combat in the base, which she interprets as break-in attempts). This cycle has been repeated 50 times too. I think this character is mentioned in more depth in Reincarnation.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Because they aren't routes.

Agree, although everyone calls them routes and this creates expectations.

In Automata's case, repetition of cycles is a theme given the nature of the game's story and the way things are presented in the game world.

True, although it's difficult to get rid of first impressions and assumptions.

2B has killed 9s around 50 times already, because 9S has found the truth around 50 times already

It's from some side materials?

A similar story is presented in side materials, where an android is guarding a base that's supposedly in the moon. Her cycle is finding out that the moon base is a hoax and that the base is just a placeholder to keep up the charade, and that the base itself is under the sea. Her pod(s) kill her when she finds out (there's physical evidence of combat in the base, which she interprets as break-in attempts). This cycle has been repeated 50 times too. I think this character is mentioned in more depth in Reincarnation.

A really nice story. I assume logic virus killed everyone on moon base too?

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

This goes into heavy spoilers for Replicant, which you haven't played yet.

Humans no longer exist, the actions of Nier in the first game condemn humanity to extinction. There's no way to prevent what's going to happen, because Nier fucked up with the only lead they had to solver the issue of the White Clorination Syndrome. Your actions, then, "end the world"..

The plot of Automata deals with that spoiler, and it is explicitly stated in the game's story. It's also why they bothered to include characters from the other games. You have to consider that there's around 9000 years between the games, and it's been 7000 years since the robots and android are a thing.

Yes, that's from the side materials. Automata in particular went overboard and Taro has been giving out tidbits of lore since the game's release.
And that's not considering the fact that there's been pieces of lore given out at concerts which weren't recorded.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I will wait until Replicant is on sale to reveal that spoiler.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

B2 and S9 relation really reminds me of Madoka and Homura relation. Especially with having a lot of hidden subtext in dialogue on next playthrough/rewatch. If you can recontextualize prohibiting access to information as saving someone, then even more so.

 

[janior]

sadly the grind in replicant to get all the endings is way more tedious and time consuming than in automata

 

[lightbane]

IIRC, in Replicant you don't need all weapons to get all of the endings, just a set number and complete the previous ending. I'm speaking from memory though.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Jedi Master Radek

B2 and S9 relation really reminds me of Madoka and Homura relation. Especially with having a lot of hidden subtext in dialogue on next playthrough/rewatch. If you can recontextualize prohibiting access to information as saving someone, then even more so.

Madoka had already been an inspiration when they developed Drag On Dragoon 3 (Drakengard 3).

IIRC, in Replicant you don't need all weapons to get all of the endings, just a set number and complete the previous ending. I'm speaking from memory though.

Yeah you need to collect but upgrading isn't mandatory. You can grind to get Words (upgrades to moves and attacks) and materials to upgrade your weapons themselves, but that's on you. You'd do good in reading a guide on how to get them since you can miss a couple though.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Bought Replicant, but will post Automata review first

-The story is not well told if we judge it by more conventional narrative standards, neither the characters are particularly well written (albeit very likeable). The dialogue is quite minimalistic. However Nier:Automata succeeds by the virtue of having a single vision and focusing on fulfilling it in every aspects of the game. Each sidequest serves to strengthen the themes and provide the background information about the main story. Small details can hide a lot of meaning, I was moved when I learned that anemone is a flowers that withers last during the autumn. Even UI and adjusting the settings are integrated into the narrative. It's a kind of story the player is left with to ponder what it really meant and I appreciate this. Every great game is more than a sum of its parts and Automata may be the cleanest example of this rule.

- Soundtrack created by Keiichi Okabe is a leading contender for the best game score ever created. It manages to subtly convey complex, often contradictory emotions. Music acts as a kind of commentary, often explaining what you have just witnessed really means. You will often find yourself just standing there, listening to the music, not wanting to change it by moving to other area. There are a lot of tracks, many quests have their own tracks and area songs change with the story progression.

- 2B may be the most cute, hot and huggable character created by mankind. To look upon her is to instantly fall in love.Visual design, ranging from areas to characters ( how machines look and move tells a lot about their nature) may be overlooked compared to the beautiful score, but it's an extraordinary strong aspect of Automata.

- Game loves surprising the player. It mixes genre sand puts some fun twist everywhere. Genre mixing generally works in game favour, with the exception of the forest castle level.

- Automata is a masterclass of misdirection. It gives away it's 1 twist very easily (I guessed the fate of humanity during the 1st bunker visit) just to better conceal other twists.I was fooled that Yorha was an evil organization we are going to rebel against or that the fact the humanity is extinct is what makes the game tragic. I underestimated the extent of Automata multilayered tragedy. If you replay the game you will notice how MUCH of the dialogue has a hidden subtext.

- The game is sad, but not in the same way something like ex. Clannad is sad. There is no director who pushes “cry”button and you cry. No, Automata sadness is depressive, it acts not like a direct hit, but more like a poison. This poison will hit you randomly in a week time when you are just doing your daily things.

- Combat is alright, however it never reaches the fun level of Bayonetta, encounter design is lackluster, bosses are mediocre, normal difficulty is too easy, while hard is too difficult.At least, the chip mechanic is pretty well made. During the second playthrough, when you want to up the difficulty, you lose control over the character with complex moveset and get one with a limited combat abilities. I initially though this was an oversight, but now I think Yoko Taro just fucks with the player, the same way the fucked when he disallowed saving during the prologue. Also: loosing chips isjust bad design decision.

- If the player turns off the Dark Souls-esque playercorpses online integration, then part of a True Ending is missing from the game. Learning about this from the internet soured my experience.

- People who say the game has different routes lie.Having routes suggests the game branches depending on player decisions. Nier Automata is a linear game, with story separated into3 acts which wants the player to hit “New Game” button at the beginning of each acts out of thematic and aesthetic considerations.I honestly thought that the game has some kind of a pacifist route and that after reaching the True Ending I will unlock it and after fulfilling some requirements I will get that other pacifist ending.Imagine my shock after replaying the game for some time, not seeing any differences and learning the truth online.

- Nier Automata is a decent example of why small openworld is better than a big one. During your playtime you will grow fond of locations and noticing how they change during the game is way more engaging than getting some new copypasted locations.

- Imagine being the Square Enix CEO checking out company surprise hit and playing it to completion

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I was pretty forgiving towards "you think you can jump on that ledge, but you are wrong" quality of the game, but it turns out there is a secret Emil hideout you need to jump into a pipe to get to into. I remember trying to jump there previously, I failed so thought it was one of those invisible walls.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Turned out the reason the game didn't ask me to delete save was because in the massage to other players I choose that they are "useless in video games". Doesn't Taro understand the irony about complaining about others sucking at video games in a given situation?

 

[Jaedar]

Turned out the reason the game didn't ask me to delete save was because in the massage to other players I choose that they are "useless in video games". Doesn't Taro understand the irony about complaining about others sucking at video games in a given situation?

Taro is japanese, so he understands intuitively the need to exclude rude people.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Turned out the reason the game didn't ask me to delete save was because in the massage to other players I choose that they are "useless in video games". Doesn't Taro understand the irony about complaining about others sucking at video games in a given situation?

Taro is japanese, so he understands intuitively the need to exclude rude people.

This.
You are a rude person who doesn't understand the effort and value of the work put in a completed save game especially when compared to people who can't progress beyond a certain point, Jedi Master Radek . Apologize.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

My message would be rude if I managed to solo the bullet hell segment. When I used a help, the same way everyone else used it, the meaning became ironic and self deprecating. In the game that thrives on subtext misunderstanding like those are a big flaw.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

The entire game relies on the theme of cooperation and working together to push ahead, though.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

The entire game relies on the theme of cooperation and working together to push ahead, though.

Don't see a contradiction there. Admitting to sucking and admitting to needing help are very close to each other.

 

[Jason Liang]

I watched most on lunity's full Automata walkthrough (now complete)

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I watched most on lunity's full Automata walkthrough (now complete)

 

[Jacob]

And that's not considering the fact that there's been pieces of lore given out at concerts which weren't recorded.

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

Sometimes I wonder if Yoko Taro is a genius or just really the most successful kusoge maker.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Why not both?
But yeah, lore drops like that are pretty lame. Keep that shit in the actual games, don't scatter them across 10 different forms of media like a bloody easter egg hunt.

 

[lightbane]

Thankfully, the wiki has the answers! I suppose.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

And that's not considering the fact that there's been pieces of lore given out at concerts which weren't recorded.

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

Sometimes I wonder if Yoko Taro is a genius or just really the most successful kusoge maker.

This is relatively common on japanese gamedev and generally entertainment productions like anime or manga too, the japanese have mastered the art of tentpole marketing in a way that makes the MCU look like child's play. The thing is that sort of stuff rarely gets published outside of Japan, but most decently big franchises get their own piece of side lore/works. Taro went *a bit* overboard but that's Taro for you.

Why not both?
But yeah, lore drops like that are pretty lame. Keep that shit in the actual games, don't scatter them across 10 different forms of media like a bloody easter egg hunt.

Thankfully, the wiki has the answers! I suppose.

The wiki, stage plays, drama cds, the anime, past games, Drakengard, the mobile game that got shut down, some game guides and lore books...

 

[Jacob]

This is relatively common on japanese gamedev and generally entertainment productions like anime or manga too, the japanese have mastered the art of tentpole marketing in a way that makes the MCU look like child's play. The thing is that sort of stuff rarely gets published outside of Japan, but most decently big franchises get their own piece of side lore/works. Taro went *a bit* overboard but that's Taro for you.

Yeah, I'm aware of that, I just wanted to make fun of that supplemental material thing. Here's something from a more popular franchise.

 

[ADL]

Pretty funny to complain about multimedia lore dumps when the basis for Nier itself is mostly contained in a drama CD. Not saying it's a dumb view to have, just funny.