Grand Strategy Noob plays Dominions 5

[Malakal]

Temper flesh is the E8 one that halves all damage.

Fire shield is great if the enemy doesn't have fire resistance. Auras are ok but way worse.

 

[Galdred]

Is Stygian flesh good (it seems rather cheap), or is it too easily countered?

 

[Infinitum]

Stygian Flesh is Ok for Elves, since it helps them thug vs chaff PD. Stacked Undying is better though. Fire Shield is like 6 Armor Piercing damage, so any amount of armor is usually enough to negate it FR or not. I'd go for an imprisoned allresists bless with magic weapons, and strongly consider sprit sight solely for your Vanjals vs Ubar. Demilich is probably the cheapest option since you want 6-7 dominion (forgot the max number ofhelhirdings possble with meh scales; test it beforehand).

As for the bless, you'll need 10 fire resistance and magic weapons, or Fire Elementals will hardcounter you. You also need some amount of reinvigoration, since your sacred ponies live and diedue to their repel and defense stats, and getting tired nixes both. Blood Surge is also very good since you can often proc it from your initial lance charge, and keep it going from there. At least 10 and preferrably 15 Poison resistance is needed to not die to foul vapours (which is a big deal). 15 Shock Resistance is generally needed to dissuade the spellcasting AI (thunder strike will still damage through, but even scipted mages won'tcast it vs high enough SR). Most people opt for 5 cold resistance + defense, as cold is blocked by armor (except frozen heart, which is sometimes used as a thug counter). Mountain and Forest survival are very nice as well, since they are very common terrain types and you have naturally high mapmove.

 

[Malakal]

6AP dmg isn't a little, it needs 12+ protection to negate and that is not common in EA. Also ozelotls/se'ir without FR will absolutely die in droves to that.

Stygian Flesh is trash mainly because magic weapons is a very common bless and elves do not need help expanding.

Helheim sacreds already have spirit sight.

 

[Johannes]

Depends on the enemy whether fireshield is good, even beyond FR. Protection obviously matters but so does hp, by a lot - a giant cares less about a few hp of damage than a human, and also makes less attacks per square so procs the shield less. Otoh its a p. hard counter to skelespam.

Auras are more equal opportunity, they tire every target at a roughly similar pace if there's no resistance. Also they come with the resistance packaged in, unlike fireshield.

15sr is usually overkill, vs TS you mostly want to not be hurt by the bigger area aoe. Regardless of sr you will be hurt by elementals.

 

[Infinitum]

Not to mention weapon length factors into it as well. It will punish ozelotl-type sacreds, but smart players usually plan for fire elementals anyway. Helheim has -some- sacreds with Spirit Sight, but Vanjarls lack it. Unless you want to thug/counterthug exclusively with Helkarlar it's very much an option.

 

[Galdred]

I had to run with this build because I timed out (I took Strength +2 instead of reinvigoration + mountain survival, because there were very few mountains).

Spoiler

The situation so far(T8):

Spoiler

Castle construction is underway in the throne province (High Throne, spreads dominion :3).

T'ien Chi (NAP) to the SE, Ermor ENE, Xibalba to the North, Ur to the SSW, and Ubar to the West.
North of Ubar is Vanheim, and West is Sauromatia (also East of Ermor).

I don't have much room left to expand (I could Beeline to Vanheim, but that would give my empire a line-shape which is horrible, and too many neighbours).
I will try to grab the farm to the SW before Ermor does, and the lake.
But with the throne spreading dominion, and my border with Ubar, conflict seems inevitable.
What should I do? Turtle (it seems bad)? NAP every neighbour but Ubar? Or be sure to have an ally against him?
I should hit CONST 4 in 4 turns.
What should I craft, and research afterwards to prepare against him?

Given that he cannot have an awake pretender, should I just start bullying him with pony elves ASAP(expansion should be over in 2 turns, but that would mean only 2 turns before whatever he designed wakes up with his ifrits)?

 

[Malakal]

You can't turtle, Helheim scales horribly.

Rush Xibalba and or Ubar, do some diplo beforehand. Both of those will snowball like crazy given enough time. You can safely ally Ermor TC and Sauro, those are p weak overall despite solid research.

 

[Galdred]

Rush means around what turn? As soon as there is no indie to expand to anymore?
My Helkarl prophet got the agility (with ambidextrous) heroic ability and one of my Vanherses got precision.
Is it worth crafting items to use it (2 weapons for the prophet, and one bow or xbow for the vanherse), or are these better ignored?

 

[Johannes]

You take those into account when relevant - if you want to thug your prophet for some reason, remember that ability when gearing him, but don't forcibly take 2 weapons if you don't think it makes him more effective. Most likely you don't want to thug him regardless, when you only got 1 prophet.
The precision is nice, but works just as well for spellcasting. Forged bows are typically better to give to commanders who can't cast spells, so you don't lose out on a spellcaster to use the item. But maybe sometime you will find yourself really wanting the absolute maximum amount of precision for a specific item, maybe use him for that then if he's around.

But don't give them tasks that are suboptimal, just because they're marginally better at them now.



And for diplo don't consider just the abstract power ranking of the nations, which is debatable anyway - Sauro and Ermor are some of the most well rounded nations in the era though they dont have too crazy early facerolling power. But try to figure out how strong they are in this specific game, in terms of their build, expansion and player skill. And in the specific matchup vs you. You can't know everything in advance ofc, and it's hard to decide whether it's better to attack a scary or an easy target.

 

[Infinitum]

Most players tend to play as if they were fighting AI; ie assuming everyone they attack will drop everything and solely come after them (whilst remaining safe from backstabs). And thus NAP almost all of their neighbours and spend ages trying to convince each other whom to gank whilst they convince themselves they're reaching their research goals or whatever. In practice, this usually translates into a bunch of players turtling inside their natural expansion (with extensive treaties of who got what with their neighbours) and a couple of breakout nations that played aggressively and either got ganked early on or ate most of their neighbours and snowball out of control. Try to be the later kind. I generally try to fight close to my production centers, also if you want to succeed you generally have to fight multiple people at once so don't be afraid to just snipe rich provinces close to your borders if there's no immediate army there to stop you, especially if there's defensible terrain nearby.

As for gearing, there's ample guides for dom 4/5 out there. For PD thugging you generally you want cheap survivability and to minimize attacks against your thug to leverage your high def/minimize harassment penalties. Vine Shields are the go to, but 8/10 nature gems is expensive. Storm Spools works as well since they shock attackers that get through for a few turns. Most people like frost brands to clear chaff, but as long as things don't hit you and you don't fatigue the rte which you kill stuff don't matter. You can also spend some time reading up on repel mechanics and gear Vanherses with Amulets of Giants (for a length 4 spear) and a ring of the warrior, but your bless doesn't really play into that. For counterthugging purposes you want Greatswords of Sharpness (and little else; maybe a ring of the warrior or luck amulet if you come upon astral indies).

 

[Galdred]

But isn't it "easier" to launch several raiding parties at once to starve a single opponent of a good part of his income, then lock him in his castles than grabbing provinces from several opponents?

 

[Infinitum]

I'm assuming you're playing a machiavellian diplomacy FFA, yes? There can be only one winner. Coordination and mutual trust doesn't come as easy as people like to believe. Also if you do rush someone down to their capital early (as you should with Hel) that makes you a target anyway so might as well be preemtpive.

 

[Galdred]

I'm assuming you're playing a machiavellian diplomacy FFA, yes? There can be only one winner. Coordination and mutual trust doesn't come as easy as people like to believe. Also if you do rush someone down to their capital early (as you should with Hel) that makes you a target anyway so might as well be preemtpive.

My experience in Neptune's pride was that befriending incompetent players made them all the more willing to let you salvage what was left of their empire and donate whatever they had to you once their defeat was certain, but you are right, granting territories that would never have been attacked in a foreseeable future is a mistake.
I guess I can grab a few more provinces during expansion(I am at 12 now) if I consider ring 1 of someone else capital fair game

 

[Malakal]

Yea fine, its always situational, you have to give us more info. Who seems strong who seems weak who has what build etc

Also get scouts, if needed from a fort until you have a few on every neighbor. Intel is absolutely vital and people often miss that.

Finally I always try to ally the weak against the strong.

 

[Galdred]

Thanks to you all, I realize the errors of my way.
I should leep expanding fast, then when it is no more possible, launch a strike on several territories against someone while the other are still busy expanding and "building up".
Sadly, I have almost zero intel. I only know that Xibalba has their pus demon hero.

Yea fine, its always situational, you have to give us more info. Who seems strong who seems weak who has what build etc

Also get scouts, if needed from a fort until you have a few on every neighbor. Intel is absolutely vital and people often miss that.

Finally I always try to ally the weak against the strong.

Actually, I like helping weaker players I cannot gobble. Providing them with gifts usually acts as a reasonable speedbump to more dangerous competitors, and they usually repay these tenfold when they are about to get down (at least, they did in Neptune's Pride: My friend would usually cut expansion to one of his neighbours, then befriend him by giving him techs and cash then collect all his planets, and cash as said neighbour was going under: "I'd rather you have it instead of this treacherous bastard"), and it worked quite well.
Not sure it works this way in Dominions, though.

 

[Galdred]

I bumped into Ubar (I forgot to reset the Vanherse to cast bless, after he was separated from his companion, blessbot, so it didn't go too well) and a large party of 12 jinn warriors and 1 emir.
Bless is (currently, before pretender awakens): Morale +2, Attack +2, MR +3, Magic Leadership +10.
He set his Jinn Emir to cast Air shield, bless, and filame bolts.

 

[Malakal]

Wow thats an awful bless honestly, so you should only be worried about his obscenely good thugs and units.

 

[Galdred]

I am not at 17 provinces (T11), with an income of 1271 and there are maybe 2 more I can take before there is no neutral left around.
I need 3 extra castles, correct?

He can get way more Jin warriors than I can get Helhirdings (as his are not limited by candles), no?
But I can probably get more mages out.
I will have Const 4 next turn.
What should I do next (except kiting a few vanjarls with cheap stuff)?

Earth elementals wouldn't help much (they have physical attacks), and The jinns have shock resistance against storm elementals.

Banes seem ideal to deal with jinns :
They have bane weapon (it bypasses Ethereal, no?) and Spirit sight, and cold aura.
They have no fire resistance built, but I can cast it after some enchantment research.

What else could work (except lot of Helkarl thugs with a frostbrand)?
What about battlefield summons? I could summon fire elementals as chaffs I suppose (for fire immunity), but they would deal next to no damage.

 

[Infinitum]

Well, scripting fuckups are common but avoidable. Try using the 'y' key to review scripts of units moving into a province this turn, it's generally more useful than 't' (reviewing all the scripts of units in/moving from selected province) for avoiding mixups.

Helkarlar with greatswords of sharpness and 5 helhirding bodyguards on attack rear for sniping commanders should work. More Helkarlar with GSS buffed with gift of flight/whatever else for hunting supercombatants eventually. Gift of Flight is probably your most immediatly useful combat spell to bypass chaff with an eye towards Mass Flight ater on. Some alteration for mistform. Evocation for Wailing Winds/Winds of Death (Wailing Winds is very much an I win spell with enough chaff). Construction 6 for lightless lanterns. Eventually enough conjuration for troll kings and high ateration for Marble Warriors/Army of (gold/lead) spells. You have better recruitable thugs than Banes, don't bother with them.

 

[Galdred]

What about airdropping twiceborn lamashtas summoners? Could that work as army harassment?
Wouldn't that be a good use case for frost brands (AP cold AoE)?
I cannot mass produce them (only my pretender can), but I can try to trade.

 

[Infinitum]

Lammashtas die to anything with a magic weapon looking at them funny, and you have far better uses for your Drotts. Frostbrands are Ok weapons, sure, GSS are generally better vs other thugs though since they give bigger stat bonuses and more armor piercing damage up front.

 

[Galdred]

How about dual main gauche? That would give a pretty high defense, so longer mirror images. I would still need to avoid entangle with MR items.

Btw, I will stick a black bow of botulf and an aiming eye on the heroic precision vanherse, because the meme potential is too high to pass, and he cannot See the unseen in melee, but apparently, it's not a problem to shoot at them.

 

[Malakal]

Don't stack def, you are already sky high in that regard and only suffer 1 harassment penalty instead of 2 per attack, thats enough in most cases.

Itemize against the weakness you suffer. Elves have relatively low hp so coral blades are worth considering, also twist fate, luck, STR items, fire shield, prot.

 

[Galdred]

That is right, stacking Def won't make them unkillable, just more expensive.

What if I only slapped minimal gears on as many of them (GSS or Moonblade + burning pearl and/or salt)?
The more moonblades (and GSS when out of astral gems) I can get, the faster these jinns will drop.
What total amount of fire resistance do I need to be safe? 10? 15?

Would salt server any purpose afterwards?

I launched against Ubar at the same time as Vanheim (I took three provinces without combaton turn 1 without encountering his army).
They have a stack of 20 Jinn warriors near me (and probably another big one finishing expansion to the West). They seem to only have Alteration 2 now though.

Could it be worth summoning a black servant? I could just assign a Helkarl to scouting duties instead.