Now that Drakensang is out...

[coldcrow]

The problem of this games are the following:

The new edition of DSA-Rules (german PnP) is considerably watered down. If you remember the old Realms of Arkania titles, you will notice that the negative attributes are gone.
Skillchecks etc don't really have consequences. For example you can rob people and all they say if you fail the check is: "Get off me"! Also the RoA series had ALOT of onetime checks in situations. If you failed you had to bear the consequences (from failed social check leading to be attacked by the guards to climb checks when traversing in the mountains.
Also as mentioned the combat is WAY too easy. Once you get some skills and spells you can mostly trash anyone. The AI being dumb as a rotten log is not helping either.

the story gets better at the end but again: the chance for an independent NON mediocre rpg was missed.

If you can bear the old graphix, try to get hold of the Realms of Arkania series for DOS. They are quite hardcore RPGS. Especially the 2nd title is probably one of the best CRPGs ever. The 3rd is more storydriven and limited in exploration but very good nonetheless.

 

[RK47]

Since I've got nothing else to play I've been into drakensang for about two weeks. I've gotta say, I'm not sure why they even bother slowing down character advances by locking away all the higher tier trainers for spells and specials in later towns aka 'chapters'. It really makes the early game combat very dull and frustrating.

Character designs were very bland and average, yet their customization is what drew me in. I thought I was quite late in the game but they kept adding more NPCs to my recruitment pool. It's the 'ebon hawk' all over again. I count at least 10 party NPC so far ranging from the amazon, a rogue, charlatan, dwarf, elf mage, battlemage, knight, muslim mercenary, elf fighter and finally an alchemist.

All these guys can fill different roles and it's interesting how much customization you can give them once you've done a little research and pump the exp on the right weapons and putting on the nice armor sets you collect on your adventures.

Too bad it only made combat easier. They tried to be epic in most cases. In some instances, it somewhat succeeded in doing so, but most of the time I can't help but feel the content generated was uninspired. Let me just give a rough outline on chapter by chapter enemies. My memory is quite fuzzy but it goes like a theme park where one zone you face nothing but orcs, then once you're done you'll face nothing but goblins, then another zone you'll face dozens of cultists in buddhist robes.

We understand that the swamp is a natural habitat for undead and necromancer activity is probably the direct cause of this phenomenon happening but whatever happened to creativity?

This is like a first foray into Dungeon Master work, where players are simply thrown into cookie cutter modules complete with 'Ok hero, welcome to our zone, we got a shitload of problems. *writes on journal* DONT FORGET THE MAIN QUEST! Then off you go usually to do fedex with a dash of chat skill thrown in with a reward penalty of failure for not having dialog checks. Skill checks are there, but just not implemented well in main plot, which is disappointing, the lack of 'good/evil' on main quest is evident when all I've been doing is running mission for a temple.

And for some strange reason the 'content' improved as I got deeper into the game. It still had a lot of dungeon crawls with pointless zerg being thrown at you, yet the sidequests get much better with non violent options thrown in (mostly mercenary work and picking sides) Drakensang could've been better but it filled the lack of RPG for me during this period of the year and Drakensang is a LONG game to finish too with zero stability issues and bugs. A good stepping stone for the sequel IMO.

They were even making fun of themselves by late game.

 

[Winter Ale]

A follow-on review

Here's some more thoughts, mostly agreeing with RK47.

Drakensang's a child of Bioware, beyond any shadow of a doubt. I'm not sure just who the other parent is. But it plays closer to NWN than anything else.

Well - a version of NWN where the camera pans more smoothly. It's an isometric view by and large, and it works well. With a quibble - the camera moves to an inconvenient place when characters are in tight areas - meaning you have to rotate it out or use the keyboard to move your team. It's not a big deal, but annoying the first time you see it.

And an NWN with a smaller set of dialogue trees - compared to a bioware game every character seems to have less to say and fewer reactions to events. Not to say there's nothing - just less.

Graphics / Textures are not up to current A game standards, but they would have been maybe two or three years ago. Take a look at the screenshots.

Gameplay - Check out the demo. This is largely but not entirely a dungeon crawl. You'll pick up a few quests, find yourself moving characters from one place to another, you might come across some wolf rats, then skin them to make leather to sell or use while blacksmithing. The full game is more of that, with more of the plot.

To expand - you find yourself pursuing one major and one minor plotline, advancing the game in stages as you finish stages of the main quest. At each point then a series of subplots will appear around town.

Combat is somewhat difficult, and especially so if your main character is a combat spellcaster. Enemies tend to congregate around spellcasters, but even aside of that -- the threat level is enough in some situations to make you sweat - and yes you can lose your party sometimes.

That happens less often if you're playing a warrior mage.

Some Thoughts

Is this a $50 'A' game? No. It's got production values that are almost there, but not quite. This game frankly didn't have the budget of a Dragon Age.

Is it a $20 value brand game? No. Absolutely not.

Is it amusing? Yeah, it can be. This thing isn't a pile by any sight. It's a competent for what it is RPG. I saw a site give it an 83 and that's not unfair.

 

[ricolikesrice]

the game had a budget of 2 million, which is really low and probably noway near NWN1/2 or dragon age, but how does the budget dictate whether its worth $50 or not ?
most of the budget for games nowadays is going into unimportant crap like voice overs, advertisement or buying prostitutes for the journalists.

drakensang is slightly longer than the NWN2 OC and almost twice as long as ME or JE, is among the most polished cRPGs ever bug-wise, the graphics while not cutting edge look good (certainly alot better than NWN2 or what i ve seen from dragon age so far) and run smooth even on old PCs. the only thing missing compared to "next-gen" titles is having a lot less voice-overs.

yeah, the game doesnt have much CnC but what little it has is pretty much equal to a bioware game (i.e. some instances where you can get a different questchain by supporting different NPCs ). only advantage i see bioware games having in that regard is more "fake choices", i.e. where drakensang most of the time only gives you 1 dialogue option, bioware games usually give you 2 or 3 which all lead to the same consequence.
normally i m not a fan of fake choices, but seeing them completely missing hurts the game a bit because even if it doesnt change the game, it adds at least an illusion of depth.

writing and setting are pretty generic - just like pretty much any bioware game ever and half of OEs games ?

i personally d rate it around 7/10, reason being that in 3 of the most important areas of cRPGs its dull/mediocre, those being 1. not having an interesting setting/story 2. not having much CnC 3. having crappy writing/dialogue.
however in almost every other part it absolutely trashes OE/bioware games from combat to character progression to 100s of small little details that make it a decent game despite failing the "big three"

and thats comming from someone who s been trashing the game since its been announced as "baldurs gate in 3d" (which sounds about right), i.e. a rabid Realms of Arcania fanboy who d kill for a true realms of arcania sequel, which Drakensang clearly is not.

 

[Shannow]

normally i m not a fan of fake choices, but seeing them completely missing hurts the game a bit because even if it doesnt change the game, it adds at least an illusion of depth.

writing and setting are pretty generic - just like pretty much any bioware game ever and half of OEs games ?

I don't believe that the lack of fake choices hurts the game as much as the mostly generic writing. If the one choice I was usually given had been written better, I wouldn't have cared about the lack of fake choices. Other games (e.g. the Gothics or Ascension to the Throne) are also very low on fake choices but have good/interesting/believable writing. And in those games I didn't miss fake choices, at all.
What I found strangest in Drakensang's writing was that you mostly sound incredibly over-polite while the NPCs all sounded like normal, believable people, especially in the main quest.

 

[Lesifoere]

the game had a budget of 2 million, which is really low and probably noway near NWN1/2 or dragon age, but how does the budget dictate whether its worth $50 or not ?

I thought it was $30?

 

[RK47]

Direct2Drive offer $30.
And the comparison with Dragon Age is poor. D-A is not out yet while Drakensang is here, with minor bugs and totally crash free. I'd take that over unproven hype thanks. And DRM Free too.

 

[ricolikesrice]

well it was full price in germany when it came out (and imho worth it), even better that you get the international version for budget price.

as for DRM-free .... not sure about the internationall release but the german one had DRM. if you didnt have the original then around 5 hours into the game you d run into a missing quest NPC or something, i.e. a really retarded form of copy protection where you encountered something that seemed like a bug with no knowledge of it being the DRM. caused some trouble around the official forums.

as far as i know you could still bypass that with a miniimg or later crack, at least a friend i know didnt buy it until later, but at that point he had played through a pirated version with no issues. like said, no clue if there s DRM in the international version and if so, what kind of it.

 

[Winter Ale]

Direct2Drive offer $30.
And the comparison with Dragon Age is poor. D-A is not out yet while Drakensang is here, with minor bugs and totally crash free. I'd take that over unproven hype thanks. And DRM Free too.

I've suggested Dragon Age if only because I expect:

1. higher production values, but not by much
2. A bit more branching in paths
3. More bugs (not mentioned)

I don't argue with what you're saying here. Frankly, I think we're putting together a good picture of the game between the last several posts. And yes, it costs $30 or so.

It's a good deal on a pretty good but not fantastic game in a genre that we would like to encourage game makers and publishers to participate in. Fair?

 

[Shannow]

as for DRM-free .... not sure about the internationall release but the german one had DRM. if you didnt have the original then around 5 hours into the game you d run into a missing quest NPC or something, i.e. a really retarded form of copy protection where you encountered something that seemed like a bug with no knowledge of it being the DRM. caused some trouble around the official forums.

I think it's a quite good form of CP. It made me buy the game, after all
It certainly beats bloat- and spyware. It also beats CP induced crashes. Since the missing NPC was Wachfrau Whatshername, a major main quest relevant character, a simple bug would have been very improbable. I just wish they'd simply given her different dialogue telling you to buy the game if you liked the demo up to that point

 

[tunguska]

This sounds like one of the least intrusive forms of DRM that I have seen recently. It's kind of clever. Lets bring back the code wheels or choosing a word from the manual. The code wheel is a particularly interesting one. It's the "something you have" part of security. Basically leave the games themselves alone for the most part. Just include a gadget like the codewheel so that you can do a manual keygen by hand. But I bet it wouldn't be long before a digital codewheel was hacked and offered up on thepiratebay.

 

[Shannow]

That, or wikis describing what symbol fits to what question, etc. I thought about that, too
And the CP would probably be entirely circumvented very fast by cracks, again leaving the legit customer fiddling with his wheel while the pirate has some more ease of use. *shrug*

I "think" TW used the same type of protection as Drakensang.

 

[Claw]

I think it's a quite good form of CP. It made me buy the game, after all
It certainly beats bloat- and spyware. It also beats CP induced crashes. Since the missing NPC was Wachfrau Whatshername, a major main quest relevant character, a simple bug would have been very improbable. I just wish they'd simply given her different dialogue telling you to buy the game if you liked the demo up to that point

I don't, and it's - allegedly - not the only bug related to the CP. Also, the damage is done to the savegames, so buying the game won't fix them.
Personally, I'm not so fond of it. Shortly after the release there was no hint of a demo on the official website so I didn't remove Drakensang from an inventory. I bought the game shortly before leaving Avestreu or experiencing any bug, but in Ferdock I had some trouble. Nothing that can't be fixed, mind.
Still, it lead to alot of whining about how all the pirates reporting bugs were damaging Drakensang's reputation. Yeah, well. You reap what you sow, I guess.

 

[Shannow]

I'm not saying it is perfect. But pirates whining about major NPCs missing is a lot better than pirates whining about crashes since it is a lot more obvious that the pirates are retards.
It was the only "bug" I encountered, so I can't comment on any further bugs. That it's not savegame conform is unfortunate but that was "only" 3-4 hours of gameplay lost and we were playing illegal versions after all. So I'd keep the whining to a minimum.

All in all, I still think it is a lot better than any other current CP/DRM.

If it were up to me I'd just put in a mild cd-check, copy protection, serial number and offer a demo. Combine that with some free extra stuff for registered users and it's a hurdle to the very casual pirates and doesn't inconvenience legit users (or at least not more than the pirates). I don't believe that hardcore pirates can be stopped, anyway.

You reap what you sow, I guess.

They got my purchase through that system...

 

[Ammar]

The problem of this games are the following:

The new edition of DSA-Rules (german PnP) is considerably watered down. If you remember the old Realms of Arkania titles, you will notice that the negative attributes are gone.

That isn't true. The new edition is both more complex and allows much more varied character building. It's just that Drakensang isn't as accurate to the PnP version and waters it much more down than RoA ever did.

 

[Claw]

I'm not saying it is perfect. But pirates whining about major NPCs missing is a lot better than pirates whining about crashes since it is a lot more obvious that the pirates are retards.

Yeah, that's exactly what I take issue with. Who can guarantee that only pirates suffer from these bugs? There is at least one confirmed savegame corruption bug not related to CP, and I'm not even sure it was fixed in a patch.
A few days ago SecuRom suddenly refused to let Drakensang start, suggesting all sorts of issues, including an infection. After a lengthy scan revealing nothing, I decided to simply try again, and whadoyouknow, problem solved!
As long as it doesn't corrupt my savegames, great. But once the CP is known to potentially do that, who can be sure? CP shouldn't have that ability as a matter of principle. A CP that can ruin my savegames is not unintrusive.

They got my purchase through that system...

They got my purchase because I enjoyed the game. If I had found out about the savegame issue earlier, I might have reconsidered and just played the pirated copy out of spite.

 

[Shannow]

Yeah, that's exactly what I take issue with. Who can guarantee that only pirates suffer from these bugs? There is at least one confirmed savegame corruption bug not related to CP, and I'm not even sure it was fixed in a patch.

???
So there is a savegame corruption bug? I'm talking about CP not bugs. Don't understand what you are getting at...
What I "know" about is a single missing NPC and that is all I commented on.

 

[Claw]

So there is a savegame corruption bug?

I never experienced the bug myself, but it is listed as "known issue" in German forums.
Just to be safe, you may want to not use the context menu to talk to NPCs.

I'm talking about CP not bugs. Don't understand what you are getting at...

I'm getting at the fact that they made their CP indistinguishable from a bug. At the very least, they are making it hard to verify if a specific problem is a result of a cracked game or simply a bug.
I also mentioned that I recently had a problem with the CP with unknown cause. What if the CP ruins someone's savegame because of a bug?

What I "know" about is a single missing NPC and that is all I commented on.

No, you commented on the CP; that's what you said. In response, I also commented on the CP, and I "know" about more than a single missing NPC. That seemed relevant to me.

 

[Winter Ale]

Huh

I also mentioned that I recently had a problem with the CP with unknown cause. What if the CP ruins someone's savegame because of a bug?

Sounds odd. Sorry, if you're legit and it happened.

I've been playing with this thing for better than a week and a half and several dozen savegames. No issues.

I'll quite happily post if I DO come across any savegame issues.

 

[Andhaira]

WHats the point of securom when it can be pirated and cracked just like any other game?

i mean really.

 

[Shannow]

What I "know" about is a single missing NPC and that is all I commented on.

No, you commented on the CP; that's what you said. In response, I also commented on the CP, and I "know" about more than a single missing NPC. That seemed relevant to me.

And the missing NPC is still the only part of the CP that I was/am aware of. Which I thought I'd stated quite clearly. I even said that I'd wished they had stated more clearly that the problem was the pirated copy. E.g. by leaving the NPC in but changing her dialogue to that effect. I mentioned that I prefer that sort of CP to DRM with bloat/spyware (or DVD drive/HD destroying CP) and was not aware of any other issues with the CP. Hell, I even mentioned what I thought was a "good" CP system.
You just went on about savegame corruption that first sounded like it happened to pirated copies only. Forcing someone who bought the a legit copy after encountering the "bug" in his torrented copy to restart the game. Then you clearly stated that that was not CP related but a normal bug. Now you combine both again saying that the CP causes the missing NPC and savegame corruptions and that purely legit users can also encounter this CP-caused bug. If you had started with the last comment (maybe providing links) we wouldn't have had to post so often, because I would have agreed with you...

 

[Claw]

And the missing NPC is still the only part of the CP that I was/am aware of. Which I thought I'd stated quite clearly.

Yeah, so? I told you there were others. I don't have a definite list, that was one of my points. The publisher was not kind enough to clarify what kind of "bugs" may or may not be caused by the CP, but a post on the official forums suggest that there are several "bag ends" caused by the CP. Furthermore, it states threads about "bugs" that may (or may not) be caused by the CP are deleted on the official forums; complaints are to be directed at the customer support email address.

The best I could offer is anecdotal evidence from forums posts, generally lacking any definite autority confirming or denying that a specific bug is caused by the CP. I couldn't even prove that the missing NPC you are already aware of is caused by the CP.
That is really one of the things I find so grating. Who really knows what is a bug and what isn't? I don't.
I'll give you an example that happened to me. When I enter the brewery cellar, I spawn inside a cell with a locked door that cannot be lockpicked. There are posts suggesting this is the result of a pirated copy being used. However, it is also listed as a known bug with an explanation suggesting that it's caused by talking to certain NPCs.
There are also people claiming that every single bug that is insinuated to be a result of the CP occurred to them despite them never using a crack, but who knows if they tell the truth.

I even said that I'd wished they had stated more clearly that the problem was the pirated copy. E.g. by leaving the NPC in but changing her dialogue to that effect. I mentioned that I prefer that sort of CP to DRM with bloat/spyware (or DVD drive/HD destroying CP) and was not aware of any other issues with the CP.

Maybe you should have stated more clearly that you are not talking about the actual CP used by Drakensang but about your imaginary CP.
Sure, if the game clearly stated that it's a CP measure, and if it was possible to continue with a legit copy, it'd be fine. That's not how it works however.

You just went on about savegame corruption that first sounded like it happened to pirated copies only. Forcing someone who bought the a legit copy after encountering the "bug" in his torrented copy to restart the game.

Yeah, that is one issue.

Then you clearly stated that that was not CP related but a normal bug.

No, I clearly didn't.

Now you combine both again saying that the CP causes the missing NPC and savegame corruptions and that purely legit users can also encounter this CP-caused bug

The missing PC is a result of savegame corruption. That legit users can also encounter this CP-caused bug (Wait, didn't you say that it isn't a bug?) is more or less speculative. It certainly makes sense to assume that it's possible, given that SecuROM isn't known to be flawless. There are also many users suggesting this. Nothing is clear.

And there is a seperate bug that also corrupts savegames. It probably doesn't have anything to do with anything, but then again, who knows.

If you had started with the last comment (maybe providing links) we wouldn't have had to post so often, because I would have agreed with you...

Well, that is really just part of the issue. Even if the publisher swore that the CP-induced bugs really just hit pirates, I would still take issue with a CP that looks like a bug. They are blurring the lines, and quite franly they demand more trust that I am willing to offer.
They are pushing the resolution of a lot of bugs from their forum into the privacy of email.
Last not least, given how buggy games are in general, they simply can't guarantee that the CP won't damage the savegames of legit customers. I simply find this practice unacceptable.

 

[Claw]

Re: Huh

Sounds odd. Sorry, if you're legit and it happened.

Oh, it didn't damage my savegames, it just stopped me from playing.
But that isn't the point. I know the CP can corrupt savegames, because the publisher has said so. I also know the CP doesn't always work correctly, since I experienced it myself. So it's not a stretch to assume that the CP could accidentally corrupt my savegames.
Not being able to play because of a CP bug is tolerable. Savegames being corrupted isn't.

 

[Saxon1974]

I got bored with this game about 10 to 15 hours in....I think Im going to move on to something else.

It's just too damned linear and the world just feels so dead, Ferdock is a great looking town but isn't a single dam thing to explore and find outside of the main quest line that I have seen. Building all over the place but 95% you cant enter....Combat is too easy...

Positive points

Its bug free it appears
Its pretty, love the look of the town

 

[Gosling]

Okay, I bought Drakensang on Steam a couple of days ago and am now playing as a battlemage. Class description says that battlemages specialize in staves so I'm playing with my staves ability maxed.
BUT I've just noticed that my character's real main weapon proficiency is axes/maces, i.e. this is the proficiency that I can raise higher than others (including staves) and subsequently get higher attack and parry rates with it.
This can be easily checked during character creation: axes (instead of staves) can be raised higher than any other weapon type for the battlemage class.

Is this a bug or was it intentional?
Maybe German codexers have seen discussions of this topic on German forums?