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Now that the dust has settled, how do we make RPGs fun again?

sosmoflux

Educated
Joined
Apr 16, 2022
Messages
434
There's been a an infinite number of pixels spent here discussing what has made RPGs decline over the past couple of decades
Avowed and Veilguard have clearly vindicated that labor... you were right

So fellas it looks like it's up to us

How can they be fixed?
What do you want, specifically?
Which things did you like about old games that never had a chance to evolve, progress, or come back?
What makes a compelling RPG story
What conditions need to happen to make good RPGs?
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
15,476
Location
Eastern block
how do we make RPGs fun again?

You need good combat, and a good story. Or at least one of them (the other can be average, but not shit)

The combat should be turn-based, because that's the only way to create a robust mechanical combat layer. KotC 2 and ToEE did this amazingly well. I don't like round-based RTwP, but it's better than pure realtime (and there were some great RtwP RPGs )

For the story you need educated people, who are not insane. This is very rare, because gamedev was invaded by mentally ill people, with very low standards

Start with getting 2 leads for each, who will have absolute authority, but choose wisely

The budget shouldn't be too high

The team shouldn't be too big

During pre-production you need to nail everything down, no big changes later

No crowd-funding, no stretch-goals (creates feature bloat), no early-access (creates development hell)

The design manifesto with clearly defined core pillars is the first step
 

NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Shitposter
Joined
Sep 6, 2022
Messages
16,753
how do we make RPGs fun again?

You need good combat, and a good story.

The combat should be turn based, because that's the only way to make a robust mechanical combat layer. KotC 2 and ToEE did this amazingly

For the story you need educated people, who are not insane. This is very rare, because gamedev was invaded by mentally ill people, with very low standards
Turn based tactical combat system.
Great stories, fresh settings, interesting and memorable characters.
 

ind33d

Learned
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,880
design them for the steam deck to kill the gacha market

basically pre-modded morrowind on a handheld would crucify AAA slop
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,938
Unless you're explicitly making a Diablo/POE-like, I really would like the variety of items toned way down such that getting new stuff actually feels like progression and not step-laddering my way across the world with incremental 1% dmg improvements. Also have things in the world that will kill you instantly because you are weak and pathetic, but can come back to. Capture a sense of dread and wonder alike – dread of the world, but the wonder makes you wish to explore its dangerous lands anyway. Basically the Gothic/Risen model of doing things.
 

StaticSpine

So back
Patron
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
3,355
Location
Balkans
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
  1. Remove the bloat - trash fights, half-empty locations, fetch quests, all that crap
  2. Stop aping old games
  3. Have in mind the UX, QoL, and design advancements made through the years
  4. Add reactivity / c&c for replayability
  5. Stop using only banalshitboring fantasy settings
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
8,977
Nobody wants to make a traditional RPG where you do traditional RPG things. They faff about with their donut steel super unique settings and muh grey morality and other nonsense. How many RPGs just play it straight and say "You're a knight and you have to save the princess"? Give us something heroic and escapist.

Even fucking Final Fantasy lost the plot. Look at the shit in 15 and 16 and tell me how we got there from the likes of 4 and 5.
 

Necrensha

Educated
Joined
Aug 31, 2024
Messages
641
Location
Deep underground
A sincere story that doesn't contain any meta-commentary, subversion of expectations, millennial humor, modern slang, or anal sex would be a HUGE change of pace compared to what we have right now. Also a protagonist that is allowed to take bold/daring actions instead of just standing there would be fun too, there's an extreme lack of testosterone in most modern videogames.
Fun villains are also a lost art, I can't even remember the last time I saw one.
Cut on the extreme item bloat too.
 

Dark Souls II

Educated
Shitposter
Joined
Jul 13, 2024
Messages
864
GettyImages-515448900.jpg

Start with putting every single female/faggot/troon/jeet gamedev here.
 
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
1,854,659
Location
Belém do Pará, Império do Brasil
how do we make RPGs fun again?

For the story you need educated people, who are not insane. This is very rare, because gamedev was invaded by mentally ill people, with very low standards
My pet theory is that Gamedev is, as a rule, horrible to work in, compared to other sectors in IT, like normal corporate work.
The industry had a 30 year talent boom, with Boomers, Gen X, Xennials and Millenials who had contact with both the digital and pre-digital world, working on it.
Those weren't just some dudes, they actually read and played the source material. Like, the Doom Team was playing Tabletop games and shit - and we already commentary here on how RPG-esque Doom's level making was and how it's not insane to say that every OG Doom level is a dungeon.
The OG Game maker dudes from the Golden Age of Games were insanely well-read, played tabletop RPGs, watched a LOT of good movies and series, read cool comic books, etc.


But going back to the beginning: Doesn't pay compared to the effort.
I'm surprised people don't compare the Gaming Industry to the Comic Book Industry. Both produce great-quality entertainment, and both have an issue of the industry companies mistreating creators. There was a big "Creator Rights" bruahuahua going on in the 80s/90s, and AFAIK Creators did get a bigger slice of the pie, but even today there's a lot of issues going on - like, there are guys being paid a lot of royalties for rando-ass characters, while people who created big famous characters aren't getting virtually shit (like, Thanos was THE villain of the MCU and from what I heard, Starlin got almost fuck-all for his appearances in billion-dollar movies).


There's also the way things are managed, like, there's a lot of hiring and laying off. Its not the most stable industry. I'm a dev, and I know that for every project, for every codebase, there is a learning curve, as you familiarize yourself with the code and how it works. And once you are familiar with a codebase, you can do things faster and better, what are your dependencies and libraries, you know how everything works, you know what you need to change, how to change, what are parts of the code that are good and which ones are a giant pile of radioactive old bad code which require a Hazmat suit before messing with it, etc. So when you fire a guy with that kind of knowledge and hire a noob, you are essentially resetting your institutional knowledge until the noob can catch up.

So the Industry, with all its crunch, overtime, not paying enough, constant layoffs, is a big talent sieve. Big shot vet dev gets laid off or leaves, then decides to make his own studio with his buddies from the old studio. Devs exit the industry and go back to corporate IT work. Devs go full indie. People get retired, washed out, die, etc.

And that's where the mentally-ill people stepped in, because "Can I make money?" is not their main drive, not even "Can I make super-cool games?", but "Can I spread my ideology with this?"
 
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
1,854,659
Location
Belém do Pará, Império do Brasil
how do we make RPGs fun again?

You need good combat, and a good story. Or at least one of them (the other can be average, but not shit)

The combat should be turn-based, because that's the only way to create a robust mechanical combat layer. KotC 2 and ToEE did this amazingly well. I don't like round-based RTwP, but it's better than pure realtime (and there were some great RtwP RPGs )

Start with getting 2 leads for each, who will have absolute authority, but choose wisely

The budget shouldn't be too high

The team shouldn't be too big

During pre-production you need to nail everything down, no big changes later

No crowd-funding, no stretch-goals (creates feature bloat), no early-access (creates development hell)

The design manifesto with clearly defined core pillars is the first step
I would say that alongside good combat and good story, you need good art and aesthetics. Not just good graphics, but good, memorable art design.

I think a Lead Game Designer, Lead Writer and Lead Artist, each with dictatorial power in their area, is good enough.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2023
Messages
4,057
Nah. Tech jobs are shit all across the board, and it's been noted that people are actually choosing other lines of work instead of it because the working conditions are just ass. Games are probably one of the most visible tech branches, but it also has the lowest paying jobs in all of the tech world.

Also that's not how leads work, a leader is basically a dude who's appointed to answer for the work of a team. And dictatorial people don't last, not because of hurt feefees, but because their attitude can generate losses.
 

Skinwalker

*teleports on top of you*
Patron
Undisputed Queen of Faggotry Village Idiot
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
14,116
Location
Yessex
How can they be fixed?
What do you want, specifically?
Which things did you like about old games that never had a chance to evolve, progress, or come back?
What makes a compelling RPG story
What conditions need to happen to make good RPGs?
For RPGs to stop being woke. Would literally solve all the problems.
 

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