nuCodexers talk about le trashmobs meme, but the real killer in RPGs are trash dialog mobs.

[Atchodas]

Storyfaggotry will die out itself when developers will realise that less than 1% of their actual customer base read their shitty dialogue wall of texts, of course I am not talking here about games like Disco Elysium where storyfaggotry is the gameplay and I think its a good thing that such game was made, id rather have gay stories contained in games that has no combat so I can easily ignore it.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Neither the gameplay or the dialog should be "trash". However trash mobs kill the fun of any game ten times faster than any dialog.

I see people in every Disco thread who claims Torment is more real RPG gaem because it has trash mobs.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Storyfaggotry will die out itself when developers will realise that less than 1% of their actual customer base read their shitty dialogue wall of texts, of course I am not talking here about games like Disco Elysium where storyfaggotry is the gameplay and I think its a good thing that such game was made, id rather have gay stories contained in games that has no combat so I can easily ignore it.

Oh, there you are.

 

[whydoibother]

Trash mobs remain the one single and only reason why RTWP is still a thing. If it wasn't for trivial, but long fights in turn based combat, I'd completely abandon all RTWP games. Their one saving grace is being able to turbo your way through trash.
That is, the one thing RTWP is good at is skipping bad content that shouldn't exist in the first place.

 

[Atchodas]

Trash mobs remain the one single and only reason why RTWP is still a thing. If it wasn't for trivial, but long fights in turn based combat, I'd completely abandon all RTWP games. Their one saving grace is being able to turbo your way through trash.
That is, the one thing RTWP is good at is skipping bad content that shouldn't exist in the first place.

The issue here is developers who choose RTWP simply so they can ignore combat encounter design, good RTWP combat is definitely possible to achieve however that would mean that devs have to handcraft every little encounter and playtest it over and over again themselves which would contradict with the reason why they chose RTWP in the first place(to skip combat encounter design and just spam some random enemies).

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Trash mobs remain the one single and only reason why RTWP is still a thing. If it wasn't for trivial, but long fights in turn based combat, I'd completely abandon all RTWP games. Their one saving grace is being able to turbo your way through trash.
That is, the one thing RTWP is good at is skipping bad content that shouldn't exist in the first place.

iirc in Paradise Cracked world exploring was ALSO turn-based so it took forever to do anything.

 

[whydoibother]

iirc in Paradise Cracked world exploring was ALSO turn-based so it took forever to do anything.

To be honest the only thing I remember about Paradise Cracked was going in and out of rooms, hacking for experience, and cheesing through. Its weird, I remember liking the game (as it was in Bulgarian at a time my English wasn't great), but I don't actually remember anything else about it.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Trash mobs can be boring, but they can't be harmful.
Trash writing is actively harming our society. It's one of the factors which brings and normializes decline and retardation.
Language and culture is more important than balance in video games (and in most cases so called trash mobs aren't even bad, its person who complains about them who is bad and gay, but thats is another story).

 

[Lilura]

After Jagged Alliance 2, Silent Storm and Temple of Elemental Evil (all turn-based), Icewind Dale (a RTwP game) has the best combat encounter design in RPG history.

Note that horde-based combat encounter design is the supreme form of CED, and that all of these RPGs consistently throw tons of enemies at the player (20-40 are commonplace per phase).

BG (not BG2) and IWD (not IWD2) also have the two best mage duels in RPG history: Davaeorn and Malavon. The problem with BG and BG2 is that they don't feature horde-based CED in the main; it's mostly just mowing down isolated fagpack after isolated fagpack, with rest spam potential inbetween, which BG2 is the worst for because it has "rest until healed", trivial on-rest ambushes and no resource management to speak of.

For rest restrictions and resource management under a Vancian magic system, Swordflight is supreme in the D&D arena. It also happens to have A1 CED. And its built on a RTwP engine (Aurora/NWN).

 

[Darth Canoli]

Trash mobs remain the one single and only reason why RTWP is still a thing. If it wasn't for trivial, but long fights in turn based combat, I'd completely abandon all RTWP games. Their one saving grace is being able to turbo your way through trash.
That is, the one thing RTWP is good at is skipping bad content that shouldn't exist in the first place.

A whole generation has bee fed with RTwP trash and it was how they first played a cRPG and exclaimed : "Oh, so that's that RPG game game game thing everyone was talking about"

10 years later, they find out combat is boring while in fact, they're finally bored of RTwP trash but it's easier to blame the combat altogether rather than admit you were wrong and Turn-Based is the only way to make good combat design (it's also harder to make, that's why the market isn't flooded with those).

And that's how Disco Retardum was born, 10 years ago, it'd have been labeled as adventure game, but as we know, every game wants to express his inner cRPG because games are all equal, right ?

 

[Roguey]

There's plenty of trash combat in turn based games as well.

 

[Lilura]

A whole generation has bee fed with RTwP trash and it was how they first played a cRPG and exclaimed : "Oh, so that's that RPG game game game thing everyone was talking about"

10 years later, they find out combat is boring while in fact, they're finally bored of RTwP trash but it's easier to blame the combat altogether rather than admit you were wrong and Turn-Based is the only way to make good combat design (it's also harder to make, that's why the market isn't flooded with those).

Not only that, but a subsequent generation to the IE one, an even more loathsome lot, has been spoonfed subpar turn-based games, and has never played Jagged Alliance 2, Silent Storm or ToEE.

And that's how Disco Retardum was born

Mark my words: that piece of garbage will be in the top 10 'Dex RPGs on the next vote, and most of the 'Dex will be proud it's there.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Neither the gameplay or the dialog should be "trash". However trash mobs kill the fun of any game ten times faster than any dialog.

I see people in every Disco thread who claims Torment is more real RPG gaem because it has trash mobs.

I see morons all the time who insist combat isn't an essential part of CRPGs, acting as if every single game in the genre has it by accident or something.

Yeah sorry, the existence of one CYOA book in digital form does not negate 30+ years of existing titles.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Neither the gameplay or the dialog should be "trash". However trash mobs kill the fun of any game ten times faster than any dialog.

I see people in every Disco thread who claims Torment is more real RPG gaem because it has trash mobs.

I see morons all the time who insist combat isn't an essential part of CRPGs, acting as if every single game in the genre has it by accident or something.

Yeah sorry, the existence of one CYOA book in digital form does not negate 30+ years of existing titles.

Skyrim is the bestselling RPG of all time! Majority means truth!!

 

[JarlFrank]

A whole generation has bee fed with RTwP trash and it was how they first played a cRPG and exclaimed : "Oh, so that's that RPG game game game thing everyone was talking about"

10 years later, they find out combat is boring while in fact, they're finally bored of RTwP trash but it's easier to blame the combat altogether rather than admit you were wrong and Turn-Based is the only way to make good combat design (it's also harder to make, that's why the market isn't flooded with those).

Not only that, but a subsequent generation to the IE one, an even more loathsome lot, has been spoonfed subpar turn-based games, and has never played Jagged Alliance 2, Silent Storm or ToEE.

If there is one thing I want to see die in a fire, it's the nuXcom system of 2 action points. It's so simplistic and lame. Gimme real action point systems, not this kiddie shit.

Also simplified cover systems of "If you position your character behind this object which is labeled cover, you will get a fixed percentage bonus to defense" rather than simulationist cover that takes into account how much of your body is behind it and what the possible enemy bullet trajectories are.

NuXcom ruined turn based systems. Everyone keeps copying it, meanwhile true action point systems are getting rarer.

And that's how Disco Retardum was born

Mark my words: that piece of garbage will be in the top 10 'Dex RPGs on the next vote, and most of the 'Dex will be proud it's there.

I like the game

 

[mondblut]

It might be just a matter of personal taste but i genuinley can't understand this sort of approach to playing RPGs, like... why try so hard to make the game easy? being overpowered might feel great for like ..... ten minutes; but then you quickly realise that the game isn't fun anymore because there's no challenge left, and what's worst is that by the time you get to the last combat encounters of the game which are supposed to be the most challenging and entertaining, you find yourself defeating enemies with no effort or tactics because you're just too overpowered for them.

But that's the whole point of it all. The point is not to "beat the game", the point is to BEAT THE SYSTEM. If encounters "which are supposed to be the most challenging" actually end up challenging, you have failed.

What I genuinely can't understand is people being afraid of getting "too overpowered". Like, nigger, what's even the point of having a progression system if you want the 20th level encounter to take as much effort to finish as a 1st level encounter? Just swap goblin sprites with dragon sprites without changing their stats.

 

[barghwata]

But that's the whole point of it all. The point is not to "beat the game", the point is to BEAT THE SYSTEM. If encounters "which are supposed to be the most challenging" actually end up challenging, you have failed.

No it's not beating the system, it's abusing the system and it's stupid, what is the point of playing an RPG with tactical combat if you can completely bypass the tactical aspect of the game by being completely overpowered and obliterating all your enemies with one click, where is the fun in fighting enemies that have no chance against you? what is the point in winning if you can't lose? i don't have a problem with minmaxing and trying to make an optimal build but grinding for the sole purpose of making your character overpowered sounds like a terribly tedious and boring way to play a game.

What I genuinely can't understand is people being afraid of getting "too overpowered". Like, nigger, what's even the point of having a progression system if you want the 20th level encounter to take as much effort to finish as a 1st level encounter? Just swap goblin sprites with dragon sprites without changing their stats.

A progression system doesn't just mean getting bigger numbers as you go along (in a good game at least), in most RPGs progressing means gaining access to new spells, weapons, abilities etc.... which give players new tactical options that they have to learn to make the most use of to be able to defeat stronger enemies, it's this process that makes character progression fun, not becoming overpowered.

 

[anvi]

You are all clueless noobs except aweigh.

 

[Darth Canoli]

If there is one thing I want to see die in a fire, it's the nuXcom system of 2 action points. It's so simplistic and lame. Gimme real action point systems, not this kiddie shit.

Also simplified cover systems of "If you position your character behind this object which is labeled cover, you will get a fixed percentage bonus to defense" rather than simulationist cover that takes into account how much of your body is behind it and what the possible enemy bullet trajectories are.

NuXcom ruined turn based systems. Everyone keeps copying it, meanwhile true action point systems are getting rarer.

I couldn't agree more but we have in a urgent need for heroes to step up.

With luck, the three games with a deep TB tactical combat incoming will hit the right spot and show the sheeps how it's done and then, good turn-based combat will flood the market.

In the meantime, as much as i dislike that 2 action point system (it's not just nuXcom, it's also the shadowrun trilogy and seems like you like Dragonfall, might have seen you name on a poll), it's still better than RTwP, because at the very least, you can build good combat encounters with it, with a pinch of talent.

 

[biggestboss]

It's been a while since I played nuXCOM, but in the Unity Shadowruns, you can alter the number of AP per turn beyond 2 using certain skills, consumables, and spells. Disregard this if you mean the difference between 1AP = 1 movement and something more granular like Fallout AP or TOEE time units.

 

[hexer]

If there is one thing I want to see die in a fire, it's the nuXcom system of 2 action points. It's so simplistic and lame. Gimme real action point systems, not this kiddie shit.

Just the other day I heard a younger DnD 5 player say something like "I don't like DnD 3, there are too many numbers".
It's a generational thing

 

[barghwata]

NuXcom is truly the harbinger of decline, ever since it came out most tactical games went to shit, it's so dumbed down it feels more like a board game then a tactical.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Trash mobs remain the one single and only reason why RTWP is still a thing. If it wasn't for trivial, but long fights in turn based combat, I'd completely abandon all RTWP games. Their one saving grace is being able to turbo your way through trash.
That is, the one thing RTWP is good at is skipping bad content that shouldn't exist in the first place.

iirc in Paradise Cracked world exploring was ALSO turn-based so it took forever to do anything.

IIRC selecting dialogue options consumed action points as well.

 

[mondblut]

But that's the whole point of it all. The point is not to "beat the game", the point is to BEAT THE SYSTEM. If encounters "which are supposed to be the most challenging" actually end up challenging, you have failed.

No it's not beating the system, it's abusing the system

That naturally follows. First you beat her up, then you make her your bitch and abuse the living shit out of her.

what is the point of playing an RPG with tactical combat if you can completely bypass the tactical aspect of the game by being completely overpowered and obliterating all your enemies with one click, where is the fun in fighting enemies that have no chance against you? what is the point in winning if you can't lose?

If you've never beaten up smaller kids at school, you've lost a world of joy.

Also, you vastly overestimate the "tactical" part even in RPGs that claim to have "tactical combat".

i don't have a problem with minmaxing and trying to make an optimal build but grinding for the sole purpose of making your character overpowered sounds like a terribly tedious and boring way to play a game.

Playing the way you are "intended" to play sounds terribly tedious and boring.

I'd rather grind first, then go and rape the contents of the game at a whim, than keep on low-key grinding throughout the entirety of it and never get a release for my effort. What do I get for an orgasm, ending slides?

A progression system doesn't just mean getting bigger numbers as you go along (in a good game at least), in most RPGs progressing means gaining access to new spells, weapons, abilities etc.... which give players new tactical options that they have to learn to make the most use of to be able to defeat stronger enemies, it's this process that makes character progression fun, not becoming overpowered.

When the game is padded in a way that you are conveniently supposed to learn Hold Person just about the time you begin encountering monsters who require Hold Person to defeat, those new spells and abilities might as well not exist. At the end of the day all of these are intended to make the enemies run out of hitpoints before you run out of yours. If you aren't making this process easier, you are only working to see different kinds of sprites and flashy special effects.

If you don't like overpowering, you support level scaling

 

[hackncrazy]

I think that the main problem is that developers don't know how to balance a good combat system and link it with a good encounter design. That's why in 90 of the blobbers release nowadays you have the option to auto fight stuff. For me, it's just the dev saying "well, I don't know how to balance this but you need this XP to level up your characters, so feel free to sit down and watch your party destroy the enemy by spamming attack".

I really wish we could have a blobbers where every fight is meaningful as the ones in Monster Hunter World. Of course, there are monsters that are easy to beat, but even they add a meaning to the grind, since they'll provide material for you to upgrade your gear.