NWN2 OC was not bad as people make it out

[Roguey]

MotB scaled back and was far more effective in this regard.

? MotB was extremely epic, just in a smarter way (especially by making it more personal).

 

[Neanderthal]

MotB scaled back and was far more effective in this regard.

? MotB was extremely epic, just in a smarter way (especially by making it more personal).

Less companions, less, more well developed areas, less trash mobs, and a far more effective "epic" narrative and gameplay because of this good version of streamlining.

 

[Robert Erick]

I enjoyed NWN2's OC for what it was. It had enough charm and atmosphere to carry me to the end, even if it had some really tedious levels, and I'm not talking about the orc caves. I guess it's because it reminded me of a typically sloppy and tongue-in-cheek D&D campaign with your friends, run by a DM who makes shit up as he goes along, which is something I always enjoy. It also had some memorable characters and moments, and some lines of dialogue that are still stuck in my head a decade later, and at least if you finish it, you can start MotB with a boost in levels and some kind of context. I can also at least say that I finished it twice, while I couldn't finish Storm of Zehir once.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I mean, seriously, would you expect a raging half-orc barbarian to be able to finesse his way through the trial with or without Sand?

In truth, it's possible. Only the sloppiest of players could fuck the trial up utterly. Even skill starved fighters can intimidate their way out of it.

 

[Neanderthal]

I mean, seriously, would you expect a raging half-orc barbarian to be able to finesse his way through the trial with or without Sand?

In truth, it's possible. Only the sloppiest of players could fuck the trial up utterly. Even skill starved fighters can intimidate their way out of it.

This. One thing to watch out for is if you've planned your build around one of the numerous CHA boosting bits of headgear, trial will strip it from you at commencement. Takes your hat off in court I suppose. Weird detail.

 

[FeelTheRads]

As Lacrymas said, it was probably done for the benefit of the player. I mean, seriously, would you expect a raging half-orc barbarian to be able to finesse his way through the trial with or without Sand?

I don't really see how would that excuses it.

Have different options for different characters. I mean, if the game treats my character as a half-orc barbarian anyway, why did I even choose anything?

I also thought it was presented well. Right until the end when they went "lol everything you did had no point, here's essentially the same ending as if you did nothing". The whole thing suddenly turned to filler for that reason and could have just skipped it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The trial by combat thing was pants on head retarded because that's an option for the defense, not the prosecution. You can't win your court case then have the court say "well, we're going to have you fight to see if you're REALLY innocent now..."
It should have been an option for characters unable to win their defense, it was clearly written by someone who didn't think about the legal implication behind it

 

[Cael]

As Lacrymas said, it was probably done for the benefit of the player. I mean, seriously, would you expect a raging half-orc barbarian to be able to finesse his way through the trial with or without Sand?

I don't really see how would that excuses it.

Have different options for different characters. I mean, if the game treats my character as a half-orc barbarian anyway, why did I even choose anything?

I also thought it was presented well. Right until the end when they went "lol everything you did had no point, here's essentially the same ending as if you did nothing". The whole thing suddenly turned to filler for that reason and could have just skipped it.

The game doesn't treat you as a half-orc barbarian. It treats you as a person. That means you get the same trial as everyone else. If you pass, you pass. If you failed, they needed an out for you because otherwise, it is game over. The trial by combat is it. Unfortunately, it also meant that the other side got it.

 

[Cael]

I think I have mentioned this somewhere, but under all the glitter that is not gold of NWN2 OC, there is Gold. The story of the guardian is a really thought-provoking tale of what happens when people take their responsibility too far for the sake of altruism. It repeats in the form of Ammon Jerro, only for him to realize this if the player actually reconciles him with his love for Shandra.

It is not so much the story that was the problem. It is the execution of it.

The story itself is pretty much a cautionary tale of AI gone wrong. The Guardian was basically an AI designed to defend Illefarn. Then, its power source failed and in order to continue its mission, it had to find another power source. It did. The problem is that power source was labelled "bad" by everyone, including the Guardian's creators. The Guardian doesn't know or care because it is a brainless AI.

Then, without verifying whether the Guardian had gone rogue or not, the Illefarn attacked it. They assumed it will go rogue because Shadow Weave. This happens. In real life history, it had happened before. The Guardian defended itself against the attack, and in the nature of all binary AI, it decided that all those who attacked it must be the enemy. Cue the complete destruction of Illefarn. The Guardian doesn't care. As far as its AI was concerned, Illefarn was the area, not the civilisation.

The Guardian is not a story of altruism gone wrong. It is the story of baseless assumption ending in tragedy. Ammon's story was the altruism gone wrong (because of arrogance). They are two different arcs.

 

[Roguey]

I think I have mentioned this somewhere, but under all the glitter that is not gold of NWN2 OC, there is Gold. The story of the guardian is a really thought-provoking tale of what happens when people take their responsibility too far for the sake of altruism. It repeats in the form of Ammon Jerro, only for him to realize this if the player actually reconciles him with his love for Shandra.

I hope you're aware this was 100% Josh.

Infinitron I've posted about this before https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...people-make-it-out.119926/page-6#post-5451120

Sure, George Ziets was responsible for the ~execution~ but the idea to change it in the first place was all Josh.

 

[Parabalus]

As Lacrymas said, it was probably done for the benefit of the player. I mean, seriously, would you expect a raging half-orc barbarian to be able to finesse his way through the trial with or without Sand?

I also thought it was presented well. Right until the end when they went "lol everything you did had no point, here's essentially the same ending as if you did nothing". The whole thing suddenly turned to filler for that reason and could have just skipped it.

If you win Nasher is obviously very pleased and you get an amulet, it's pretty rewarding to win it. If you lose Sand has to cuck out and call for trial by combat himself.

 

[Lacrymas]

This has been talked about before in this very thread.

I've heard this "NWN2 OC is about deconstruction of heroism", but it's not. At most, it's about pointless sacrifice or a sacrifice which makes things worse. Zhjaeve sacrificed her place in Githyanki society, but she ends up as Black Garius' servant; Ammon Jerro sacrificed his soul to fight the KoS, but in the end he lost his family and his granddaughter, while the KoS is still active; The KoS sacrificed his life for the Illefarn, but only managed to turn into a zealous grotesquery of a guardian who annihilated what he was supposed to protect. The execution was terrible, obviously, and I'm grasping at straws. The only "deconstruction of heroism" is what's-his-face, the champion of the festival, who went to Neverwinter to become a captain of the guard, but turned into a pencil pusher with no real influence for heroism. The KoS' fall wasn't due to heroism, the consequences or the pitfalls of such, it was because the Weave failed at the wrong time because of Netheril, there is no "deconstruction" going on here.

Just change heroism into altruism.

 

[Neanderthal]

I'm afraid you're all wrong, and woefully misguided, the real truth is simply: Anything an Elf creates or touches is corruption.

Refine your hatred gentlemen, it is your greatest weapon and only hope.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Cael

Sort of,since the guardian was chosen not by personal integrity but rather for the altruism of willing to abandon their personhood. Instead of appointing a thinking, willing being the illefarn chose to hand in the reins to, as you succinctly put, an AI. Which is why the plot happens. Illefarn had ended, and the guardian just refused to accept it.

Roguey
So that proves it was 100%ziets. But kudos to Josh for not taking the literal dark lord route, I guess.

NWN2 was truly ahead of its time. It warned us about the dangers of NPCs

 

[Lagole Gon]

Favourite NWN2 moment:
My character screaming about encumbrance during fancy ceremony cutscene after Lord Nasher gifted him deluxe armor.

Emergent storytelling.

 

[Lagole Gon]

sawyer
my son

you are a lead designer now
we don't have time and resources so we can only finish one waifu romance

will you pick spunky tiefling rogue girl

or an elf stalker who looks like a githyanki transvestite

...

Spoiler

 

[tindrli]

the only thing that i remember of NWN 2 is the fact that i never finished it. so that's my opinion of it back then. and it was like zilion years ago

 

[Ismaul]

the trial questline was pretty good

It was interesting, until you realized the outcome cared very little about your choices. Trial by combat in any case, IIRC. I remember being disappointed that the whole thing fell flat on its face. Expecting real choices with consequences beyond the immediate and the cosmetic... What was I thinking?

Just an expanded copy of KotOR's trial. The inspiration is clear. Bioware "choices" all over again.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the trial questline was pretty good

It was interesting, until you realized the outcome cared very little about your choices. Trial by combat in any case, IIRC. I remember being disappointed that the whole thing fell flat on its face. Expecting real choices with consequences beyond the immediate and the cosmetic... What was I thinking?

Just an expanded copy of KotOR's trial. The inspiration is clear. Bioware "choices" all over again.

The trial by combat part was stupid because that's not how trial by combat works at all. The prosecution can't trigger trial by combat or else the state would just go around accusing anyone they dislike of crimes to try to kill them. Clearly much thought wasn't put into it.
It should have been an option for people who fail the trial.

 

[Ramnozack]

Does anyone else have really bad performance with this game? I have Xeon 5680 6 cores @3.33 and a 1070 yet a couple months ago I recall when I gave this game another attempt I quit because the framerate was so low.

 

[Neanderthal]

Usually shadows, turn em off.

 

[Cael]

Usually shadows, turn em off.

Would this work for janky graphics as well? My NWN2 jerks along, particularly when you are moving the camera around or the party is running around long distances.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Does anyone else have really bad performance with this game? I have Xeon 5680 6 cores @3.33 and a 1070 yet a couple months ago I recall when I gave this game another attempt I quite because the framerate was so low.

Yeah, I remember having FPS issues. Can't remember what I did to fix it though. When you have FPS problems in older games you have to try turning each option on/off individually until you find what triggers it(not always obvious,) it's typically caused by something that used to be done in hardware but is now emulated in software by the driver.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Usually shadows, turn em off.

Would this work for janky graphics as well? My NWN2 jerks along, particularly when you are moving the camera around or the party is running around long distances.

Shadows off usually works. If the issue persists, must that memory leak thing that'll clear if you restart your PC. Some areas in mods will be jerky no matter what you do though.

 

[Cael]

Usually shadows, turn em off.

Would this work for janky graphics as well? My NWN2 jerks along, particularly when you are moving the camera around or the party is running around long distances.

Shadows off usually works. If the issue persists, must that memory leak thing that'll clear if you restart your PC. Some areas in mods will be jerky no matter what you do though.

Ugh. My old computer needs a kick in the guts sometimes...