NWN2 OC was not bad as people make it out

[Lacrymas]

If anyone is interested, the "best" melee build is a Cleric/Bard/RDD/Stormlord focused on spears.

 

[Cael]

If anyone is interested, the "best" melee build is a Cleric/Bard/RDD/Stormlord focused on spears.

Yep. Just remember to rest often and recast all those buffs, especially Divine Power, which, by the way, expires when you lose all the temporary hp it gives. So, in a real fight, you lose it in about... 5 seconds (yes, it is either a bug or an engine limitation, not sure which).

 

[fantadomat]

If anyone is interested, the "best" melee build is a Cleric/Bard/RDD/Stormlord focused on spears.

Does it really matter,after all you can finish the game with most builds.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yep. Just remember to rest often and recast all those buffs, especially Divine Power, which, by the way, expires when you lose all the temporary hp it gives. So, in a real fight, you lose it in about... 5 seconds (yes, it is either a bug or an engine limitation, not sure which).

I've never noticed this and I can't find any information about this bug anywhere. Citation?

 

[Cael]

Yep. Just remember to rest often and recast all those buffs, especially Divine Power, which, by the way, expires when you lose all the temporary hp it gives. So, in a real fight, you lose it in about... 5 seconds (yes, it is either a bug or an engine limitation, not sure which).

I've never noticed this and I can't find any information about this bug anywhere. Citation?

Cast it with Persistent Spell and find it out yourself.

Geez, doesn't ANYONE experiment on their own any more? Damned Internet killed exploration and experimentation.

 

[Lacrymas]

I don't have the game randomly installed and sitting on my hard drive.

You can use this mod https://neverwintervault.org/rolovault/projects/nwn2/nwn2scripts/403/index.html to cast all your buffs instantaneously, so it's not a problem that the buffs are a lot.

 

[Cael]

I don't have the game randomly installed and sitting on my hard drive.

A Cleric based fighter with Persistent Spell shenannigans is always my first choice as a martial class. In fact, I have played it in TT in at least 2 occassions.

Imagine my excitement when NWN2 came out with Persistent Spell in the game AND a domain that gave you a level 3 Divine Power. Imagine my pain when the damned thing shut off every time I took damage because of the bug after going through 17 levels waiting for it.

It is not something you forget.

 

[Delterius]

I don't think it matters all that much whether you worship him or not, I mean story-wise. He is already letting you off the hook, what more can you possibly want? Apart from prostrating yourself to him when you meet, I don't know what more interaction can be there.

'oh, btw I'm your greatest fan. everyone back home is into Lathander and the Sun-Kittens but they are posers compared to Kelemvor's Wristcuts'

 

[aweigh]

I remember enjoying very much the act of dressing up each one of my party members in the NWN2 OC in colored cloaks and armor (I think I was using a mod which allowed armor tinting if I remember correctly) in order to dress my party up in POWER RANGER COLORS.

I also liked doing something similar in PoE1 by dressing up Eder in that Red-colored Full-Plate Armor you get in Defiance Bay bridge encounter to make him my "Red Ranger", the Protag in the White Ranger Full-Plate armor you get in White March Pt. 1 to have my "White Ranger", and using Osric's Family Breastplate for the "Yellow Ranger" character and lastly using that Green-colored Full-Plate armor which I think you got somewhere in the Endless Paths for the "Green Ranger" character.

Don't you dare judge me, heathens.

 

[Cael]

I remember enjoying very much the act of dressing up each one of my party members in the NWN2 OC in colored cloaks and armor (I think I was using a mod which allowed armor tinting if I remember correctly) in order to dress my party up in POWER RANGER COLORS.

I also liked doing something similar in PoE1 by dressing up Eder in that Red-colored Full-Plate Armor you get in Defiance Bay bridge encounter to make him my "Red Ranger", the Protag in the White Ranger Full-Plate armor you get in White March Pt. 1 to have my "White Ranger", and using Osric's Family Breastplate for the "Yellow Ranger" character and lastly using that Green-colored Full-Plate armor which I think you got somewhere in the Endless Paths for the "Green Ranger" character.

Don't you dare judge me, heathens.

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*inserts My Little Pony pic here*

I did NOT say a word.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I'd like to play a character that feels right

Barbarian is the only answer.

 

[Citizen]

Rogue/Barbarian/Blackguard is the only answer.

Fixed.

 

[vivec]

Wizard is the only answer. And if you don't agree with that you are a pretty princess.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

If you are a cleric (or paladin) of Kelemvor you will get extra lines in MotB. Not enough to play one of those chars specifically just for the sake of those 2 extra lines though.

Pointy Stick isn't "the best" melee build. It's a typical "great at lvl30" PvP build tailored specifically to succeed at the "battle of the builds" mod, ie. an all-rounder that has to have some tool against each of the opponents combined in one package. For example Pointy carefully avoids having spell resistance. Why? Because when fighting one of the full caster builds, say, Blood Scholar, Pointy knows those casters will cast Shadow Simulacrum and if Pointy had SR the Simulacrum would have SR too and Pointy couldn't just dismiss it by casting Word of Faith.
Why would you not want to have higher stats and SR for the campaigns tho? You're better off with other builds for playing the campaigns. Try a twf rogue with as much STR as possible. Red numbers galore! It's like with those Kaze-no kama builds except your numbers are significantly higher. 15d6 sneak dice on every single strike is no joke men.

Divine Power works correctly if you have a patched game. So I call BS on that especially since this is followed with nonsense like "just test it with persistent spell".
Divine Power can never be persisted, the base spell lvl stays 4 even if you can cast it in a lvl3 spell slot through the STR domain.

 

[Erikolaz]

Thanks. I ultimately went with a Ranger (true neutral, strength-based dual wielder).

Feel as though I have the most opportunity to RP a unique character when I'm neutral, at least in AD&D. It makes me consider my choices more carefully, instead of going with the obvious good/evil options. It also makes it easier to justify certain companion choices.

NWN2 seems to have very few interesting PrCs for melee Rangers. Will probably stay pure.

Next big decision: Determining whether it makes most sense for my true neutral Ranger to support the Militia or the Thieves Guild, being neither lawful nor thieving.

P.S. Thanks for the mod suggestions aweigh.

 

[Cael]

Divine Power can never be persisted, the base spell lvl stays 4 even if you can cast it in a lvl3 spell slot through the STR domain.

I must have been hallucinating when I ACTUALLY DID IT after going through 17 levels to get it. Thanks for telling me what I did or didn't do.

 

[Cael]

Thanks. I ultimately went with a Ranger (true neutral, strength-based dual wielder).

Feel as though I have the most opportunity to RP a unique character when I'm neutral, at least in AD&D. It makes me consider my choices more carefully, instead of going with the obvious good/evil options. It also makes it easier to justify certain companion choices.

NWN2 seems to have very few interesting PrCs for melee Rangers. Will probably stay pure.

Next big decision: Determining whether it makes most sense for my true neutral Ranger to support the Militia or the Thieves Guild, being neither lawful nor thieving.

P.S. Thanks for the mod suggestions aweigh.

Weaponmaster is pretty good, but the requirements are onerous without Fighter bonus feats. RDD is good also, particularly the +4AC since you will have a lower AC due to light armour and being strength based. If you go the dagger or kukri route, Invisible Blade is viable. But other than that, yeah, most martial classes get stiffed in terms of PrCs.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I must have been hallucinating when I ACTUALLY DID IT after going through 17 levels to get it. Thanks for telling me what I did or didn't do.

Yes you are hallucinating. It's impossible to persist lvl4 spells.

 

[jungl]

The OC was good. I enjoyed the story arcs they gave for the minor villians and the court room scene. Story didn't feel like half-assed generic DnD fantasy shit and there thousands of ways they botched it and made it so like sword coast legends. Even the now shit graphics were good back then at release. Funny the game had like no copy protection. I was the first person to put a torrent of it on it on the web.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yeah, you can't persist Divine Power. Here's a list of spells you can - http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Spells_that_can_be_Persisted

Although it's possible they patched it at some point. The way persistent spell works is that each spell that can be persisted is individually flagged as such while also not exceeding level 9 (there are high level spells that are flagged as persistable, like the article mentions, but they'd exceed level 9 and so aren't actually available), it isn't a catch-all system, so they may have flagged the level 3 Divine Power from the domain as persistable by mistake and then fixed it in a later patch. I can't find anything about Divine Power in the patch notes at all, but there you go.

 

[vivec]

In PnP you can persist divine power with Complete Divine. It's the staple poster child for DMM abuse.

 

[Cael]

Yeah, you can't persist Divine Power. Here's a list of spells you can - http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Spells_that_can_be_Persisted

Although it's possible they patched it at some point. The way persistent spell works is that each spell that can be persisted is individually flagged as such while also not exceeding level 9 (there are high level spells that are flagged as persistable, like the article mentions, but they'd exceed level 9 and so aren't actually available), it isn't a catch-all system, so they may have flagged the level 3 Divine Power from the domain as persistable by mistake and then fixed it in a later patch. I can't find anything about Divine Power in the patch notes at all, but there you go.

The TT rules does not give a upper limit to the spell level you can tack any metamagic on. It is your available spell slots that limits you, basically. The NWN2 devs got it right as Persistent Spell has other limits, which is probably why they put the flag in there in the first place as the programme isn't smart enough to judge:
- it must have a range of personal or a fixed range (e.g., Bless with its 30ft fixed range, but not Bull Strength which has a range of Touch even if you cast it on yourself)
- it must not be dischargeable (so no Persisted Cold Touch)
- it must have a duration (instantaneous spells with a fixed range like Burning Hands can't be persisted)

The difference is that it is not possible to get L10+ spell slots in NWN2, but it is possible with epic level rules in TT. Take a look at the statblocks for ultra high level spellcasters (e.g., Elminster, Manshoon, the Simbul, etc.) in 3.5. They all have them and they all have metamagicked spells in them.

It seems to me that the developers of NWN2 tried to make things as close to the core rules as possible, which is to their credit as few do (the travesty of Dragonshard, the Eberron RTS, is a prime example, which is ironic given where DnD started in the first place).

Divine Power is most definitely persistable according to the base rules. The main problem is that tacking Persist on it boosts it up to L10, which is normally not achievable pre-Epic. That is where Divine Metamagic came in and made all the Cleric players cream their pants while the martial classes went crying into their beer. In NWN2, there is no DMM, which is a good thing. You don't want to see what my TT Cleric based warrior can do with DMM abuse. But the L3 Divine Power? Oh yeah.

 

[Erikolaz]

Please spoil me on something: How does the protagonist become Knight Captain, and gain control of Crossroad Keep, if he supports the Shadow Thieves rather than the City Watch? And is he still put in charge of the Greycloaks?

 

[Robespierre]

Please spoil me on something: How does the protagonist become Knight Captain, and gain control of Crossroad Keep, if he supports the Shadow Thieves rather than the City Watch? And is he still put in charge of the Greycloaks?

The game doesn't care.

 

[Cael]

Please spoil me on something: How does the protagonist become Knight Captain, and gain control of Crossroad Keep, if he supports the Shadow Thieves rather than the City Watch? And is he still put in charge of the Greycloaks?

Yes. You get in through the contacts in the Shadow Thieves and a corrupt knight in Nasher's service. Nasher has no choice but to go with it as he wants to kick Luskan in the balls and then you turn out to be the only effective commander against the Shadow King. Nasher is practical like that, and won't hesitate to threaten, execute, murder and/or blackmail his subordinates to keep himself in power (see Fenthick).