NWN2: Storm of Zehir expansion (now confirmed)

[Jasede]

I think timed quests might be a bit too much for most gamers to stomach these days. You could get away with timing in older games though, when only smart people had computers.

 

[Shannow]

Well, I'd also like to see them scrap the NWN2 engine and use the ToEE engine. That needs a lot of tweaking and some polishing but at least it offers some nice gameplay :twisted:

But seriously, I don't think that some more elements that are considered "hardcore" would ruin Obsidian if that was what they really want to do.
They have their engine (as much as I dislike it). They should have quite some experience working with it. That "should" reduce development costs quite a lot.
They could take some risks and see how it goes.
And casual gamer != stupid gamer. We all started playing at some point in time. We were all "casual" gamers in the beginning. I still consider myself a casual gamer. If we started playing games now and everbody told us that Oblivion was the best game ever and we liked it well enough and old games are all bad and we have finally in 2006 been able to leave the anachronism of turn-based behind us we'd simply have no comparison and little drive to try something else. BUT if some AAA studio were to introduce some old school hardcore RPG elements that'd give the generation chocolate milk/ ADD/ casual gamer a different experience. And who knows? Maybe they'd like it.
Of course, I don't share the opinion of the CODEX and corporate suits that people are intrinsically stupid and want to be kept that way. So I'm probably too naive...

Ah well, so far what I heard about NX2 sounds good and only a pricing over 25€ or stupid DRM would keep me from buying it.

 

[MountainWest]

I can't believe we're discussing the to be or not to be of permanent death (contra rising at the end like nothing ever happened) on the Codex. I'll Jasede this and say: DECLINE!

Cheat mode's been an option forever, fucking use it if you don't want to die. And for the "Oh noez, I'll die instantly"-crowd. Well, you've been threatened by instant death in most if not all good RPGs made to date. It worked like a charm in those... but, perhaps, you never played them?

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I can't believe we're discussing the to be or not to be of permanent death (contra rising at the end like nothing ever happened) on the Codex. I'll Jasede this and say: DECLINE!

Cheat mode's been an option forever, fucking use it if you don't want to die. And for the "Oh noez, I'll die instantly"-crowd. Well, you've been threatened by instant death in most if not all good RPGs made to date. It worked like a charm in those... but, perhaps, you never played them?

What would you call 'good' RPGs?

 

[MountainWest]

So my memory won't betray me: I've recently replayed EotB 1,2; Wizardry 6 and Pool of Radiance. And played for the first time: Might&Magic 6,7; Wizardry 1 and Curse of the Azure Bonds. All had instant death and all were good, 'cept Wizardry 1.

But, of course, you should be able to protect yourself from instant death. With spells, items and tactics.

 

[Jasede]

I want to play EotB 1 and 2. How are the import mechanics? What version would you recommend?

 

[serch]

Mountain West and Jasede sitting in a tree, doing furry things...

I expect a good story, great characters, some c&c... but the strategic aspect of the encounters will be regular at best. I don't like nwn engine for combat, TOEE's one is so much better it isn't funny. If we are lucky, 4ed D&D rules would have a difficult conversion to real time, forcing turn based combat in future games.

 

[MountainWest]

I want to play EotB 1 and 2. How are the import mechanics? What version would you recommend?

Never tried the different versions (though I think I played the EotBs on Amiga back then, but that's way to many years ago to remember). I played the PC-ones, with dosbox, and they worked great and looked great. If you don't have a problem playing the old Wizardrys you'll probably drool over the graphics in EotB.

The problem with importing characters is that you get to keep your stuff from EotB 1 (don't remember if you get to keep all your stuff, but I do remember cutting the crap out of the low-levels with my shiny +5 long sword) . This'll make you overpowered for the first part of the game. However, halfway through or so you'll start getting your ass handed to you regardless.

Mountain West and Jasede sitting in a tree, doing furry things...

I know you are, but what am I?

 

[Lumpy]

How about permanent death, Fallout style? No resurrect, no anything. When a party member dies, you either reload or play on without him.

 

[Jasede]

Wouldn't fit the setting, though I suppose you could include some sort of massive damage death rule. [IE, if a party member falls below -50 HP, not even a True Raise can bring him back.]

 

[easychord]

Changing the death system a bit, short of a really elaborate resurrect mechanic, shouldn't be too hard. It's not practical in the OC and expansion because the characters are needed for the plot but if this isn't the case in SoZ then I would be able to mod in a permanent death system if nobody else could be bothered. These scripts already exist for NWN modules.

It would be good if the hardcode difficulty option made the game more hardcore in terms of death and recovery "out of the box".

 

[Lumpy]

Why would they have to give a fuck about the setting? As long as they don't actively contradict it, it should be fine with WotC.
Also, the setting of MotB pretty much assumed resurrection was normally impossible:
- Akachi, a high level cleric, didn't just resurrect his lover, even though he should've been able to by normal D&D rules.
- Kaelyn worries about her siblings dying in combat with Okku, which shouldn't be a problem considering she would have Resurrection both as a cleric spell and a racial ability.

 

[nomask7]

I'm all for timed quests, and all sorts of difficulty in general. Some sort of dynamic, "timed" world would be nice as well, even innovative. Obsidian got away with MotB, and this new one has enough popular features to fool the rabble into buying it even if Obsidian makes it more challenging and sophisticated than MotB. MotB didn't really have any popular features that I can think of (and let's not think of them now).

If I recall correctly, party members in BG can die so violently that they can't be raised from the dead if the hit points go below -10 in one blow or something like that. This is a very vague recollection, so perhaps it's incorrect. Anyway, ToEE handled death pretty well (first unconscious, then dead, but not beyond all help, when hitpoints reach a certain negative degree, then possibly dead beyond all help but that never happened to me). Low IQ enemies, such as lions, could be made to continue attacking unconscious characters until they're clearly dead, whereas a more intelligent enemy would consider attacking more threatening characters, even if those characters aren't attacking him but his companions. A lion could perhaps be distracted...

 

[nomask7]

By the way, are there any "permanent death" mods for NWN2 OC and MotB? I haven't been able to find any.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Inspired by Darklands, they say?

Will the character's age be determined by the professions they choose and their proficiency in them? Will their abilities have modifiers depending on social background and upbringing?

 

[aries202]

It is correct that if party members in BG2 in one blow suffers - 10 damage, they are gone for good i.e. they cannot be resurrected.

There are certain spells like destruction? (it is the spell where you ust go all over the place when you die) and other spells like that that you cannot even get resurrected from when successfull. It's reload time, then.

I would also like to see the return of the 8 hours needed to rest, and maybe even the 'party not fully healed' after the 8 hours.

 

[Jasede]

In all honesty, "Party fully healed after 8 hours" is a fucking abomination, as are HP recovering automatically. I don't mind a "memorize all heall spells during rest and use them automatically" option though.

 

[quasimodo]

Huh? I swear I played NWN OC, SOU, HOTU, NWN2 OC, and MOTB. I surely didn't watch it. I know I played it... Was it a dream? Maybe. Who knows. *shrug* Anyways, back to waiting to play more OF THE BESTEST GAMING SERIES EVAR!!!!

Meh....Pretty much everything I like to do in combat in this kind of game involving the control and decisions was done automatically (and poorly) by the computer leaving me staring at a confused mess on the screen occasionally pressing the pause key....real fun.

 

[nomask7]

I agree, resting should take 8 hours if you want spells memorized, and healing while resting should work as it does in BG2 (no automatic full HPs, etc.).

 

[Texas Red]

Resting shouldn't be there in the first place. Its kind of ridiculous how in IE games you rested for 8 hours every time after a battle. I approve of the new spell casting system.

 

[Volourn]

Huh? Restings hould be there, and you shouldn't rest after every battle. Don't blame D&D for the silliness of CRPGs.

No worthwhile pnp DM would allow you to pull that shit. plus, be a man and not a wussy. Don't rest after every battle even if allowed. Only cowards do that. You should try going through dungeons with no more than 1 rest per trip, and go all the way IF YOU DARE.

 

[nomask7]

Resting 8 hours uninterrupted wasn't that easy at least in BG2. I've always feared that playing dumbed-down games has a corruptive influence: it corrupts even your memory.

 

[Volourn]

Yes, it was. Press the button, and you rest. Big deal. You might get some rather wussy monsters spawn on top of you that you utterly destroy, anyways. Ooooo Scary! NOT!

 

[Lesifoere]

As much as I hate to agree with Volourn, he's right in this at least. Seriously, did anyone ever find the random encounters that might happen upon your party in BG2 threatening? They were all shitty cannon fodder you could annihilate in two round flat, even with a thoroughly fatigued party.

Also, BG2 offers the option to automatically heal to full HP while resting, so not sure what you're talking about there, either.

 

[Pseudofool]

Rather than having a Staff of Resurrection they clearly should have a Staff of Reload.

Permanent Death of course is meaningless without some kind of autosave and no reload, which would be crazy frustrating in other ways.

No matter how you cut it "Death" in Crpgs will always be problematic--but if it's thoughtfully approached the problems shouldn't detract from the game...